Since Planten has raised some issues in his post 632 yesterday here I wish to respond:
Platen wrote:
The Baha’is do not believe in physical resurerction of Jesus. I just wasted my time with them. They had admitted it in clear words but I did not understand it. Now I have seen their clear words in post #619. See below:
We do not believe that there was a bodily resurrection after the crucifixion of Christ,
My reply:
Baha’is believe Christ was crucified and spiritually resurrected…
The resurrections of the Divine Manifestations are not of the body. All Their states, Their conditions, Their acts, the things They have established, Their teachings, Their expressions, Their parables and Their instructions have a spiritual and divine signification, and have no connection with material things.
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 103
Platen:
Moreover, their leaders do not have real knowledge. I show some mistaken ideas of their leader Shoghi below to prove that he knew nothing about Quran or Muhammad or Islam. Shoghi gave some bad or wrong translation of a verse of the Quran:
In that verse 4:156, there are no words “One like him”. Why did Shougi try to mislead the world about Quran? That was bad work and illegal. Muhammad never said it was “One like him” on the cross. And Muhammad never said that Jews succeeded in destroying the physical body of Jesus. Muhammad never said such a thing. But Shoghi is trying to be a spokesperson for Muhammad. Why??
My reply:
It is neither without knowledge nor “illegal” as you suggest…
Please review the translations and you will see… Most translations have the words you mention in Surih 157 from:
Shakir translation:
and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but
it appeared to them so (like Isa) …
A. Yusuf Ali has:
but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them,
*The word is *شُبِّهَ
To resemble or appear
Transliterated “Shub-biha”
Now there’s a variety of interpretations and view on this… Most Muslims take the words very literally that Jesus was not crucified and that maybe Simon of Cyrene or Judas was substituted hence the one like him or resembling him… The Ahmadi view as you know is that He swooned on the cross and survived the crucifixion and managed to travel to Kashmir.
The Baha’i view is that Jesus really was crucified and those who were there assumed it meant the end of His cause and that they “killed the Messiah…”… but I would also ask you to consider the following (Quran 2:154) Ayah:
And say not of those who are slain in the way of Allah: “They are dead.” Nay, they are living,
though ye perceive (it) not.
So I would submit that Baha’is know something about resurrection and about the Islamic view of Crucifixtion.
Platen:
I learnt that these Baha’is had many problems such as bigamy. They do not believe in Bigamy and Bahaullah spoke against more than one wife. But he himself had two wives.
My reply:
Baha’is do not have many problems with “bigamy”. They are monogamous!
Seems to me Platen you are posing as some sort of authority on Baha’i faith…
How can this be?
Actually Baha’u’llah was raised in Shiah Islam and He was according to that law and culture permitted up to four wives…
But here are the wives of Baha’u’llah:
(1) Nawáb (Asíyih Khánum) (2) Mahd-i-'Ulyá (Fátimih Khánum) (3) Gawhar Khánum. So there were three not two as you stated above.
Platen wrote:
Then Abdul Baha ( son of bahaullah) also had two wives. Why was that??
My reply:
Well maybe it’s becasue Abdul-Baha had
one wife…
Munirih Khanum
Platen:
They had suggested (ruled) that leadership will go to the physical male child only. But Shoghi was not the male child of Abdul Baha (?) or Bahaullah, or at least Shoghi did not have any male issue. So the blessing should be cut of at that point. But they are working hard and preaching their faith which was not well known or well spread in the life time of Bahaullah. That was not fair.
My reply:
Shoghi Effendi was the grandson of Abdul-Baha and mentioned in His Will and Testament as the Guardian of the Faith… Shoghi Effendi was also a descendent of the family of the Bab.
Platen:
Why was it that teachings of Bahaullah were not made available openly in the life time of Bahaillah?? Bahaullah lived a long life. His teachings are now being showered on us.There is no way to check whether he actually said any of those things.
My reply:
Actually the teachings of Baha’u’llah were widespread and known and published in India … There is a way to check whether He actually “said” any of those things… It’s called “authentication” through documents…
See:
bahai-library.com/?file=uhj_numbers_sacred_writings
Platen:
There are some serious problems in Baha’i faith. But let them preach. They have a high uphill task. It is true that the Muslims of the time of Bahaullah were very much misled in their theology. That much is true.
My reply:
How about you investigate a little further before you claim such expertise?
- Art
