Why Islam denies the crucifixion of Christ

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Sounds like a question similar to the one I am asking him. You will never get an answer.
Indeed, and it’s rather typical that he started talking about the Gnostics, then claimed (in the post Nine_Two quoted) that he doesn’t know much about them. It reminds me of the time he was ranting on the Trinity, then after I questioned his understanding of it admitted openly that he had never researched the Trinity. The habit of some Muslims on this forum in pontificating on a subject then admitting they have little knowledge of it is rather startling.
 
If he can’t give me an answer I’m just going to assume he fully knows that according to the beliefs his religion is based on that he knowingly worships an evil god, which makes his religion no different than Satanists.

For the Muslims who don’t point to gnostics as vindication for their beliefs, I’ll continue to believe they do not worship an evil god.
 
With that remark, I was wondering if they had a new Planten step in and begin the Big Circle all over again…

Round and round and around we go…
 
With that remark, I was wondering if they had a new Planten step in and begin the Big Circle all over again…

Round and round and around we go…
You are pulling me into gnostics, Sedonaman is trying to keep me away from gnostics (see post #469):
Hey, waitaminnit. Wait just one cotton-pickin minnit. The topic of this thread is why Islam denies the crucifixion of Christ, and not Gnostics. Besides, not only is this a deliberate attempt to subvert the discussion of Islam by changing the subject
Be sure Muhammad did not take anything from any christian, gnostic or agnostic. If you are so sure of yoru accusation then tell me just one thing that Muhammad took from any gnostic i.e. any anti-christian mind.
 
Be sure Muhammad did not take anything from any christian, gnostic or agnostic. If you are so sure of yoru accusation then tell me just one thing that Muhammad took from any gnostic i.e. any anti-christian mind.
As you yourself already said many, many times, the idea that Christ wasn’t crucified.
 
As you yourself already said many, many times, the idea that Christ wasn’t crucified.
And here’s food for thought:
I do not even understand the meaning of GNOSTICS and AGNOSTICS.
One wonders why a person would enter debate on the subject while admitting this rather important topic (let alone obvious mistake between the names).
 
One wonders why a person would enter debate on the subject while admitting this rather important topic (let alone obvious mistake between the names).
Who needs to know anything, when you’ve got a glob-trotting Jesus on your side.😛
 
“What color is the sky in your world?”
Just be aware that Baha’is prove the Crucifixion of the body of Jesus all the time, and Muslims have changed their tune to this, by the hundreds of thousands, because Baha’i came out of a Muslim matrix. Without the Spirit, they do not realize and do not change.
Daniel’s “70 weeks” prophecy in 9:24-26, about an “anointed one” being “cut off” is about the crucifixion of Christ. 7 X 70 = 490 and
457 BC + 490 = 33 AD
 
The Gnostics can be likened to a cult living in a remote area, drawing on all sorts of eccentric thought, to then having discovered or found ‘lost’ gospels.

So Planten, you would rather believe Gnostics than authentic sources of witness, people who lived responsible, daily ordinary lives? These were the type of followers Jesus chose, not anti-social, anti-authority eccentrics.

Mohammed came into contact with Jews and Catholics and observed their teachings. He was all for the Jews until they rejected his 'angel’s revelation, then he went to war with them…

whose beliefs regarding the House of War, revenge, and his last words, ‘Kill the Infidel’ totally contradicted Prophet, King and Messiah Jesus’ last words, ‘Forgive them, Father, as they know not what they do’…also revealing God the Father, a new message, a new revelation of how see God.

It would be good for you to go back to NewageIslam and study all the history and work that was denied by the fundmentalist leaders, rather than go further here.
 
Just be aware that Baha’is prove the Crucifixion of the body of Jesus all the time, and Muslims have changed their tune to this, by the hundreds of thousands, because Baha’i came out of a Muslim matrix. Without the Spirit, they do not realize and do not change.
Daniel’s “70 weeks” prophecy in 9:24-26, about an “anointed one” being “cut off” is about the crucifixion of Christ. 7 X 70 = 490 and
457 BC + 490 = 33 AD
You know, I could probably say something like, “The Dow Jones went down today,” or, “I met this really cute girl at the mall,” or, “Brazil is my favorite movie of all time,” and you’d probably just repond to it with more random Baha’i prosletyzing.
 
Ooohoooohoooh…

I know the answer to that… Jimi was too stoned to have thought anything about the Ba’hai faith. 😃

Edit to add:

Yes JC, I know my reply was cheesey 😛
 
I am not expert on gnostics. I heard this word from the Catholics on this thread. Any how, they belong to christians, long before Islam. We had nothing to do with them.

Please tell me what the gnostics have to do with Isalm, in a few words.
This is a very interering post from you planten.

The very first post on this thread was directed how mohamad and the authors of the koran got their information from the Gnostics.

Did you bother reading this thread from the begining to understand what is going on here??

How can you state:… Please tell me what the gnostics have to do with Isalm, in a few words. ~ when it’s been explained in detail up front in the thread?

The first entry in this thread is:

Why Islam denies the crucifixion of Christ

As i have already proven Islam plagiarized many Christian texts significantly. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=361136

But now I will focus on Islam’s denial of the crucifixion. The denial of the crucifixion comes from the incorporation of many **Gnostic **teachings into the Koran. The **Gnostics **practiced docetism a concept base on the idea that Christ was god in the spirit and had no true human form. His human form was just an illusion. So when it comes to the crucifixion they believed that Jesus wasn’t crucified but just appeared to be crucified. Gnostics believed that Symon of Cyrene was crucified instead of him whilst Christ being transfigured looked on mocking them.

The Koran, Surah 4.156-57:

“And for their saying, ‘Verily we have slain the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, an Apostle of God.’ Yet they slew him not, and they crucified him not, but they had only his likeness. And they who differed about him were in doubt concerning him: No sure knowledge had they about him, but followed only an opinion, and they did not really slay him, but God took him up to Himself. And God is Mighty, Wise!”

Muslims have suggested on the basis of this verse that Judas was crucified in Jesus’ stead . This is a very **Gnostic **idea , that Jesus just appeared to be crucified and proves without a doubt that Islam was influenced by Gnosticism
 
And though I have been innocent in the world, since men have called me “God,” and “Son of God,” God, in order that I be not mocked of the demons on the day of judgment, has willed that I be mocked of men in this world by the death of Judas;, making all men to believe that I died upon the cross. And this mocking shall continue until the advent of muhammad;, the messenger ;of god, who, when he shall come, shall reveal this deception to those who believe in god’s Law.” (Gnostic gospel of barnabas chapter 220)

And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure. (surah 4:157)
Code:
  **So I am writing to you not because you don’t know the truth but because you know the difference between truth and lies**.  And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ.  Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist. Anyone who denies the Son doesn’t have the Father, either. But anyone who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.  (1 John 2:21-23)
For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the Power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)
 
But now I will focus on Islam’s denial of the crucifixion. The denial of the crucifixion comes from the incorporation of many **Gnostic **teachings into the Koran. The **Gnostics **practiced docetism a concept base on the idea that Christ was god in the spirit and had no true human form. His human form was just an illusion. So when it comes to the crucifixion they believed that Jesus wasn’t crucified but just appeared to be crucified. Gnostics believed that Symon of Cyrene was crucified instead of him whilst Christ being transfigured looked on mocking them.

The Koran, Surah 4.156-57:

“And for their saying, ‘Verily we have slain the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, an Apostle of God.’ Yet they slew him not, and they crucified him not, but they had only his likeness. And they who differed about him were in doubt concerning him: No sure knowledge had they about him, but followed only an opinion, and they did not really slay him, but God took him up to Himself. And God is Mighty, Wise!”

Muslims have suggested on the basis of this verse that Judas was crucified in Jesus’ stead . This is a very **Gnostic **idea , that Jesus just appeared to be crucified and proves without a doubt that Islam was influenced by Gnosticism
This not only proves Mahomet had knowledge of gnostic ideas, but that he was ignorant of reality as well.

Many histories spoke of the Crucifixion and the Library at Alexandria surely had many of them. However, Mahomet chose to be willfully ignorant of Truth because of his desire to be a Jewish prophet and then later the founder of his own religion, a religion which later destroyed the library at Alexandria.

Mahomet chose ignorance over enlightenment, Lies over Truth and his choices mean that he chose Death over Life and unfortunately many millions after him have made the same choice.

The idea that Jesus had a stunt double for the crucifixion is too silly for anyone to take seriously.
 
And though I have been innocent in the world, since men have called me “God,” and “Son of God,” God, in order that I be not mocked of the demons on the day of judgment, has willed that I be mocked of men in this world by the death of Judas;, making all men to believe that I died upon the cross. And this mocking shall continue until the advent of muhammad;, the messenger ;of god, who, when he shall come, shall reveal this deception to those who believe in god’s Law.” (Gnostic gospel of barnabas chapter 220)

And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure. (surah 4:157)
Code:
  **So I am writing to you not because you don’t know the truth but because you know the difference between truth and lies**.  And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ.  Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist. Anyone who denies the Son doesn’t have the Father, either. But anyone who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.  (1 John 2:21-23)
For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the Power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)
I do believe that the Gospel of Barnabas was written much later than even the Quran, in Spain by a unitarian heresy which believed in the unification of the faiths.

I may be confusing it with another, but I’m pretty sure that’s the one.
 
I do believe that the Gospel of Barnabas was written much later than even the Quran, in Spain by a unitarian heresy which believed in the unification of the faiths.
Yes, it is dated to about the 16th century. Some Muslim apologists try to claim it is an early gospel, although there is no evidence to place it anywhere near the original gospels. Some even confuse it with the Epistle of Barnabas, which is dated closer to the gospels but is completely unrelated.
 
Yes, it is dated to about the 16th century. Some Muslim apologists try to claim it is an early gospel, although there is no evidence to place it anywhere near the original gospels. Some even confuse it with the Epistle of Barnabas, which is dated closer to the gospels but is completely unrelated.
I believe the Epistle of Barnabas is part of the Acts of Pilate. Or the other way around. I can’t remember. I also can’t remember if it’s boring or interesting. I should reread it.
 
You know, I could probably say something like, “The Dow Jones went down today,” or, “I met this really cute girl at the mall,” or, “Brazil is my favorite movie of all time,” and you’d probably just repond to it with more random Baha’i prosletyzing.
Why do you say cruel things like that, shame on you. I just proved the crucifixion of Christ from Daniel to you and you dismiss it. Interesting.

Jesus alluded to this prophecy when Peter, a simple fisherman, asked how many times he should forgive others. Since Jesus wanted him to grow up spiritually and fast, he wanted him to understand the promise of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God to be able to genuinely forgive others completely, no matter how petty they may be.
 
And though I have been innocent in the world, since men have called me “God,” and “Son of God,” God, in order that I be not mocked of the demons on the day of judgment, has willed that I be mocked of men in this world by the death of Judas;, making all men to believe that I died upon the cross. And this mocking shall continue until the advent of muhammad;, the messenger ;of god, who, when he shall come, shall reveal this deception to those who believe in god’s Law.” (Gnostic gospel of barnabas chapter 220)

How did Mr.Barnabas know about Muhammad? Was Barnabas a magician or some prophet?
And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him (kill him on the cross) but it was m,ade to appear to them (as if he was dead). and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure. (surah 4:157)
 
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