Why Islam denies the crucifixion of Christ

[whatevergirl]

But why should any one do such things?? Perhaps an enemy of Jesus would do such thing. I feel that christians do not recognise their enemies and the enemies of Jesus.

Jesus spoke often of being aware of false prophets. Just using reason alone…logic by itself–one could draw from Jesus warning His followers of ‘false prophets’ that one who would come after Him, who would speak against His crucifixion, would be considered false, no? Just using logic for a moment. (by false, we mean someone teaching that Jesus wasn’t sent to die for our sins, for example, which is the antithesis of what Jesus told us He came to do)

That is absolutely wrong. Muhamamd’s purpose was to bring people close to God.
Muhammad never planned such a thing, to sway Christians away from their faith. Muhammad wanted the Jews and the christians to follow their books, to follow their own faith. I as a Muslim would like the christians to be strong in their own faith and be good christians. Whatever their belief is no concern to me. The Christians can stick to their beliefs (right or wrong beliefs). It does not hurt me and I do not mind their beliefs. Trinity or son of God or God or prophet or all at once. They can believe what suits them.

But I have a similar right. While I admit the right of the Catholics to help and guide me in the matters of faith, I also reserve the same right to guide the Catholics to what I feel is right.
I assure you that Muhammad never planned anything adverse against the christians.He was a lover of Jesus and Mary. I am also a lover of Jesus and his mother. I have no plans against any Jew or Christian or any one of other faith.

*I believe you when you say you love Mary and Jesus. My friends in Pgh, often said the same thing, they just didn’t believe that Jesus was Divine, and died for our sins. If you were to view Jesus as who He TRULY is, you would have to abandon Islam, because you can’t believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, and also that He didn’t. *

I want the christians to be well established in their faith so that nobody can move them.

That is not true. Muhammad believed what he believed and he was successful. He eradicated paganism from Arabia. He liberated people, mentally, spiritually, who were serving under kings and emperors in nearby lands.

When the Qu’ran speaks of ‘‘infidels,’’ planten…is Muhammed referring to…pagans?

 

[whatevergirl]

*I’m not abandoning this conversation, planten…but I’m at work, and need to get back. I will chat more with you later. *

 

[whatevergirl]

*One more thing planten, before I forget. lol

I believe you also, when you say that Muhammad’s sole purpose wasn’t to sway people from Christianity, but it was part of it. Why would he need to teach his followers then that Jesus did not die on a cross, what would be the motivation for teaching that? I mean, people of that time witnessed Christ’s death on the cross…are those made up stories, then, in your eyes? Just trying to get a sense of how this started…this belief that Jesus was not crucified? *

 

[KathleenGee]

Thank you, Jagasaki and DZ…

I had some good laughs, too, but then I thought I was being uncharitable…still think about the other one with the moon shots etc…very good and colorful…

So I made my issue known, people know where I am coming from and if the Plantens don’t mind us laughing at their remarks, etc., so be it.

Blessings!

 

[planten]

Thank you, Jagasaki and DZ…

I had some good laughs, too, but then I thought I was being uncharitable…still think about the other one with the moon shots etc…very good and colorful…

So I made my issue known, people know where I am coming from and if the Plantens don’t mind us laughing at their remarks, etc., so be it.

Blessings!

I think I better take a holiday… X-Mas is near.

 

[Nine_Two]

Planten, answer my question. Why do you believe the Koran is authoritive on saying what Christians believe, when it states ridiculous things that are easily proved wrong about other religions (SUrrah 9:30)?

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Apparently the thread title is now “Why Islam denies the Trinity.” If any of the mods could change the title for us, that would be super.

I don’t find nor have I ever found plantens posts “deceitful” ---- misguided, misunderstood, naive, ignorant, oh yes indeed, but “deceitful”, I do not believe that is his style.

When he makes claims that he never made an argument, or that he doesn’t remember a certain forum member even when substantial evidence is provided for either case, I do consider that deceitful. When he falls back on non sequitors, blatantly ignores people’s posts, and claims he either hasn’t seen their attempts to get him to respond or asks that they link to the post in question when he’s perfectly capable as a grown man of doing so…I do consider all of that deceitful.

Again, I feel sorry for any sincere Muslims who try to defend Islam honestly and are forced to have planten pop in alongside them.

Planten, answer my question. Why do you believe the Koran is authoritive on saying what Christians believe, when it states ridiculous things that are easily proved wrong about other religions (SUrrah 9:30)?

Better get some popcorn and hunker down.

It’s a valid question, but he won’t respond because he can’t, much like he can’t regarding the crucifixion itself. And since he can’t plead the fifth amendment in an internet forum, he’ll just run to another topic.

 

[Maria65]

Has anyone offered Planten the visual aid St. Patrick used when describing the Trinity? The three-leafed clover! :shamrock2:

There are 3 leaves, but it is all one plant. Smart guy, that St. Patrick!

 

[jakasaki]

When he makes claims that he never made an argument, or that he doesn’t remember a certain forum member even when substantial evidence is provided for either case, I do consider that deceitful. When he falls back on non sequitors, blatantly ignores people’s posts, and claims he either hasn’t seen their attempts to get him to respond or asks that they link to the post in question when he’s perfectly capable as a grown man of doing so…I do consider all of that deceitful.

Yes, you are right as always ByzWolf. How quickly I forget those posts. It s.u.cks getting old The mind is a terrible thing to waste…

 

[wwolverine]

Dear Christian Friends,

Dont know if you have noticed, but planten seems to be the only muslim on this forum who is an expert merrygoround character and seems to want to take all the Christians on this forum on this round trip.

As is said, empty vessels make more sound, and as planten seems to have nothing better to do, seems keeping on making the sound. He is no different from most muslims who have only few questions to ask and they will keep on repeating until the computers go obsolete and some new inventions do come. Than too they will keep to the same questions and avoid all questions that are asked by us.

Maybe he is a blessing in disguise to those who converted to islam thinking its a better place to be, and may revert back to Christianity, and maybe many muslims will find the truth and embrace Christianity.

Its although fun to have him around on this forum, but well hope he is guided well and comes to know Jesus as Jesus really is and not as a prophet mohammed has made them think.

May God Guide him well.

 

[cthulhubryan]

Dear Christian Friends,

Dont know if you have noticed, but planten seems to be the only muslim on this forum who is an expert merrygoround character and seems to want to take all the Christians on this forum on this round trip.

As is said, empty vessels make more sound, and as planten seems to have nothing better to do, seems keeping on making the sound. He is no different from most muslims who have only few questions to ask and they will keep on repeating until the computers go obsolete and some new inventions do come. Than too they will keep to the same questions and avoid all questions that are asked by us.

Maybe he is a blessing in disguise to those who converted to islam thinking its a better place to be, and may revert back to Christianity, and maybe many muslims will find the truth and embrace Christianity.

Its although fun to have him around on this forum, but well hope he is guided well and comes to know Jesus as Jesus really is and not as a prophet mohammed has made them think.

May God Guide him well.

There have been other Muslims here, but many have been banned for trying to convert Christians to Paganism.

 

[Sen_McGlinn]

There have been other Muslims here, but many have been banned for trying to convert Christians to Paganism.

LOL - that’s the last thing a Muslim would do. It was paganism - jahaliyya - that Muhammad preached against (and polytheism, but they tend to go together).

I think you mean “heresy” rather than paganism - but heresy is in the eyes of the beholder

 

[whatevergirl]

LOL - that’s the last thing a Muslim would do. It was paganism - jahaliyya - that Muhammad preached against (and polytheism, but they tend to go together).

I think you mean “heresy” rather than paganism - but heresy is in the eyes of the beholder

*True, and Muslims believe that Christians who believe in the Trinity, are polytheists–thus he was preaching in essence, against Christians. (in addition to others) *

 

[KathleenGee]

Well, I just made a comment about several posts by “Planten”, one after the other…and all different people…Forensics is interesting…

If Planten would say, ‘I am Planten Number 1’, the next say ‘I am Planten Number 2’, and the next say ‘I am Planten Number 3’, and so on with the rest, I could handle that.

With people excusing such behavior, while our people are pulling their hair out, they just had a hayday in another thread playing musical chairs.

And someone just said, they know what we mean. They do. Westerners excuse them all the time, but somebody said you go to a Muslim site, we would not get the same benefits as here.

I have raised 4 teenagers in 11 years, and one won’t grow up until he is 30…in a Far Left city.

The shamrock is better than showing them any imagery in the Bible, because it doesn’t come from the Bible.

So, if more humor is added…along with the photos, this could elevate my tolerance. I wanted DavidMark to see the Messages of Muhammed so he could read all about the lunar eclipse, etc., and rethink his Ba’Hai based on Islam…

This thread has evolved into some co-dependent behavior.

 

[schaick]

I like the water analogy. All the water in the world is of one substance- some of it can be frozen, liquid or a gas all at one time. Can’t remember what this is called.

Some water can be contained in a glass.
Jesus in phyiscal human form.

Water reacts to water in a water tower- provides pressure for water to travel through pipes to our homes. Jesus proceeds from the Father, acts under authority of the Father.

Muslims always say though that 1+1+1=3. Their math is wrong it is: 1x1x1=1 The same substance revealing to us 3 different times, in 3 different ways.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

I’m going off topic here briefly just to give a warning to my Christian brothers and sisters:

When explaining the Trinity, do not use family analogies (I can be father, grandfather, son, etc), nor water analogies (water can be liquid, gas, or solid). All of those are compliant with the heresy known as Modalism, which teaches that there is one Being of God but one Person of God, and that Person is revealed through different “modes” of existence. It is contradictory to the doctrine of the Trinity which teaches of one Being of God revealed through Three coexistent and coeternal Persons.

And now to return to the topic at hand:

Planten, answer my question. Why do you believe the Koran is authoritive on saying what Christians believe [ie the crucifixion], when it states ridiculous things that are easily proved wrong about other religions (SUrrah 9:30)?

 

[KathleenGee]

Yes, they do storm in saying we believe in 3 gods…

So, I ask myself this outloud…do I really want to hear all the forecasted same o same o???

I may be sneaking back looking for photos, humor and what have you.

 

[morning_star777]

Planten, you know that’s not what she means. She means that they are not three SEPARATE Gods, but ONE GOD, united in the undivided Holy Trinity. This is what we ALL mean, because this is orthodox Christian understanding of the subject, as it has been since the days of the apostles.

Dear friend, you see that, this trinity concept was explained to Muslims hundred times, but since they join here to bash Christianity so do you think that they will ever confess if even they understand the concept? I do not think so. Here we come to learn something, and they come to bash our faith. So if you will explain the trinity concept thousand times, be sure they will even not try to understand it.Perhaps they do not understand trinity because they actually do not want to understand it.Just their aim is to bash Christians’ faith.I confess trinity is heard to understand and I also took long time for my better understanding of trinity, but since they( muslims) have no interest about trinity so I do not think that any explanation will be useful for them.It is really painful & sick that some people come here not to understand or learn others’ faith but to bash others’ faith.Anyway my friend, may Lord Christ’s love and grace always be with you .

 

[morning_star777]

Correction of an unconscious silly misspell.

Dear friend, you see that, this trinity concept was explained to Muslims hundred times, but since they join here to bash Christianity so do you think that they will ever confess if even they understand the concept? I do not think so. Here we come to learn something, and they come to bash our faith. So if you will explain the trinity concept thousand times, be sure they will even not try to understand it.Perhaps they do not understand trinity because they actually do not want to understand it.Just their aim is to bash Christians’ faith.I confess trinity is hard to understand and I also took long time for my better understanding of trinity, but since they( muslims) have no interest about trinity so I do not think that any explanation will be useful for them.It is really painful & sick that some people come here not to understand or learn others’ faith but to bash others’ faith.Anyway my friend, may Lord Christ’s love and grace always be with you .

 

[dzheremi]

Dear friend, you see that, this trinity concept was explained to Muslims hundred times, but since they join here to bash Christianity so do you think that they will ever confess if even they understand the concept? I do not think so. Here we come to learn something, and they come to bash our faith. So if you will explain the trinity concept thousand times, be sure they will even not try to understand it.Perhaps they do not understand trinity because they actually do not want to understand it.Just their aim is to bash Christians’ faith.I confess trinity is heard to understand and I also took long time for my better understanding of trinity, but since they( muslims) have no interest about trinity so I do not think that any explanation will be useful for them.It is really painful & sick that some people come here not to understand or learn others’ faith but to bash others’ faith.Anyway my friend, may Lord Christ’s love and grace always be with you .

Hi, Morningstar! Maybe they will never understand or never confess that they understand, but I will keep saying it anyway. I assume that Planten is not the only Muslim here who needs to hear over and over again this concept of the Trinity from CHRISTIANS (not Qur’an!), so I will say it for whoever will read/listen. Remember from Isaiah 40 the voice telling us to make way for the Lord…we can each do this work! What Planten might not hear or understand, others might! If it helps just a little bit, even if I never know it, it is certainly worth it. If it doesn’t help, at least I tried to do a good thing. May God’s peace and love be with you always, as well.