Why isn’t Thomas à Kempis a saint? Or is He?

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Surely the signs that someone tried to escape when buried alive are just signs of what a body will do when deprived of oxygen (and therefore without the full consent of the will) and are not signs that someone’s soul is in danger.

To take an analogy, when Christians were thrown to lions, was it considered a barrier to their canonisation as bona fide martyrs if they tried to run away before being eaten? Surely that’s just a physiological reaction, built into our bodies’ survival instinct, to being put in close proximity to a lion, just as escaping is a physiological reaction to being buried alive?
 
DL82 said:
Surely the signs that someone tried to escape when buried alive are just signs of what a body will do when deprived of oxygen (and therefore without the full consent of the will) and are not signs that someone’s soul is in danger.

To take an analogy, when Christians were thrown to lions, was it considered a barrier to their canonisation as bona fide martyrs if they tried to run away before being eaten? Surely that’s just a physiological reaction, built into our bodies’ survival instinct, to being put in close proximity to a lion, just as escaping is a physiological reaction to being buried alive?
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I would agree. It’s not wrong to try to protect your life. I don’t think it makes anyone any less holy to value their life here, just so long as they don’t value it over eternal life. I think the reason such instincts as self-preservation are natural is because even this life is God-given.
 
I don’t know why the Unity Publishing Site unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/TrueApparitions.html actually lists “THOMAS KEMPIS and IMITATION OF CHRIST” in True Apparitions.

I do understand that it reads like the inspired word of God, like locutions and I believe he lived in the 15th Century in Austria.

As for this about a premature burial; well, it’s hard just to take that from a website.
 
DL82;
Surely the signs that someone tried to escape when buried alive are just signs of what a body will do when deprived of oxygen (and therefore without the full consent of the will) and are not signs that someone’s soul is in danger.
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True, but back in Thomas Kempis day, such things weren’t well known.
To take an analogy, when Christians were thrown to lions, was it considered a barrier to their canonisation as bona fide martyrs if they tried to run away before being eaten? Surely that’s just a physiological reaction, built into our bodies’ survival instinct, to being put in close proximity to a lion, just as escaping is a physiological reaction to being buried alive?
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Yes, but understanding the mindset of the times of Thomas Kempis, they believed that the faith of a saint, would lead him to accept death willingly and to trust in the providence of God totally. Finding finger nail marks on the lid of the coffin he was buried in, led them to believe that he gave into despair.

Keep in mind, their lack of knowledge of the human brain and nervous system.

Also, not canonizing Thomas Kempis, doesn’t mean he’s not a saint, but rather, he’s just not venerated by the Church. I’m sure Thomas Kempis(who I believe is in heaven) doesn’t mind being slighted the title.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
DL82;

True, but back in Thomas Kempis day, such things weren’t well known.

Yes, but understanding the mindset of the times of Thomas Kempis, they believed that the faith of a saint, would lead him to accept death willingly and to trust in the providence of God totally. Finding finger nail marks on the lid of the coffin he was buried in, led them to believe that he gave into despair.

Keep in mind, their lack of knowledge of the human brain and nervous system.

Also, not canonizing Thomas Kempis, doesn’t mean he’s not a saint, but rather, he’s just not venerated by the Church. I’m sure Thomas Kempis(who I believe is in heaven) doesn’t mind being slighted the title.

Jim
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Also, not canonizing Thomas Kempis, doesn’t mean he’s not a saint, but rather, he’s just not venerated by the Church. I’m sure Thomas Kempis(who I believe is in heaven) doesn’t mind being slighted the title.
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Great point! I love that prayer at Mass “whose Faith is known only to Thee”. It is a beautiful and poignant prayer…I am sure when we get to Heaven there will be endless great saints never venerated by The Church…Blessings this Easter, now drawing to a close…Barb:)
 
BarbaraTherese said:
Great point! I love that prayer at Mass “whose Faith is known only to Thee”. It is a beautiful and poignant prayer…I am sure when we get to Heaven there will be endless great saints never venerated by The Church…🙂
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Thank you BarbaraTherese,

True, but I would still like to see him named a Saint…what a great example…

Peace 🙂
 
I have heard Fr. Benedict Groeschel say, on two occasions, that the reason Thomas a Kempis isn’t a saint is that when they exhumed him to transfer his remains to a more honored location, they found that he had been buried alive! There was then a question as to whether he might have succumbed to the sin of despair! The Catholic Church is tough on saints! Fr. Groeschel didn’t give his source for this information, but as informed as he is, I believe him with no question.
 
Bob_Geiger said:
I have heard Fr. Benedict Groeschel say, on two occasions, that the reason Thomas a Kempis isn’t a saint is that when they exhumed him to transfer his remains to a more honored location, they found that he had been buried alive! There was then a question as to whether he might have succumbed to the sin of despair! The Catholic Church is tough on saints! Fr. Groeschel didn’t give his source for this information, but as informed as he is, I believe him with no question.
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Hello Bob,

I have read two rumors; one, that he was “buried alive” and secondly that the first rumor may have been fabricated by the Protestants. Can anyone here, provide a good source for either one of these rumors?
Hundreds of years ago, Bishop Maximilian started the cause for the beatification of Thomas à Kempis. But when the Bishop died in 1688, the beatification process came to a stop. Let us hope and pray that one day we will be able to say: St. Thomas**** à Kempis, Pray for Us! ****

More here
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Why would Bishop Maximilian have started the cause for the beatification of Thomas à Kempis, more than two hundred years after his death, if the rumor about him having been buried alive were true?

I wish someone today would re-start the cause for his beatification.
 
They’re not sure ‘Thomas A Kempis’ actually lived. Many think The Imitation of Christ was a collective work attributed to a non-existent author. I’m sure someday already pointed this out. Sorry.🙂
 
KingAlfred said:
They’re not sure ‘Thomas A Kempis’ actually lived. Many think The Imitation of Christ was a collective work attributed to a non-existent author. I’m sure someday already pointed this out. Sorry.🙂
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Hello KingAlfred,
I have read this too…somewhere…do you have a reliable source for this opinion?

Thanks.
 
Jimmy_B said:
Hello KingAlfred,
I have read this too…somewhere…do you have a reliable source for this opinion?

Thanks.
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I think King Alfred is pulling your leg. Thomas a Kempis most definitely was a real person.
 
thistle said:
I think King Alfred is pulling your leg. Thomas a Kempis most definitely was a real person.
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That is kind of the conclusion, I came to but I have also read all sorts of things, including; that he was not a real person, that is why I would like to know what the best source is…
 
Jimmy_B said:
Hello KingAlfred,
I have read this too…somewhere…do you have a reliable source for this opinion?

Thanks.
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I’ve come across that argument a lot in secondary history sources. The claim is that the order from which the text arose actually wrote the book, and gave it the fictitious author’s name of ‘Thomas A Kempis’. I’m sure if you Google the book and study some of the better sources, the theme will pop up fast. I love the book and always have. I just finished reading several passages from it lastnight. It has literally saved me from grave despair many times in life. 👍
 
Here are two commentaries on the issue I quickly scrounged up online. I’ve read others, the titles of which I can’t recall, that did not recognize Thomas as the author.

“The Imitation of Christ, by Thomas à Kempis, is a widely read Christian spiritual book. It was first published anonymously, in Latin, ca. 1418; several other authors have been proposed, but Kempis’ authorship is now generally accepted.” – Wikipedia

“Theories most popular at the moment ascribe the Imitation to two or three men, members of the Brethren of the Common Life, an association of priests organized in the Netherlands in the latter vihalf of the fourteenth century. That Thomas Hemerken of Kempen, or Thomas À Kempis as he is now known, later translated a composite of their writings, essentially a spiritual diary, from the original Netherlandish into Latin is generally admitted by scholars.” --THE BRUCE PUBLISHING COMPANY
 
Has anyone heard any updates on Thomas? I would really like to see his cause for beatification reopened if it is possible.
 
LilyM said:
They died in a horrible way, true, but those who did usually welcomed death, or at any rate weren’t desperately trying to preserve their lives. It speaks to attachment to the world rather than God, and perhaps a guilty conscience that the dying one wants to atone for.
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Jesus died in a terrible way and welcomed death. It would seem that there is nothing to suggest that Thomas à Kempis did not also know GOD’s peace as he met his fate?
 
Knowltonss said:
Jesus died in a terrible way and welcomed death. It would seem that there is nothing to suggest that Thomas à Kempis did not also know GOD’s peace as he met his fate?
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I agree, only God knows. When I first saw this thread I said to myself… I started a thread like this a while back and it turned out to be my thread… lol…
 
LilyM said:
They died in a horrible way, true, but those who did usually welcomed death, or at any rate weren’t desperately trying to preserve their lives. It speaks to attachment to the world rather than God, and perhaps a guilty conscience that the dying one wants to atone for.
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What an absurd notion… It has nothing to do with attachment to the world. It has everything to do with self-preservation instinct, which is a part of God’s very design. It is one of the strongest instincts in the human person and is in no way sinful. I am sure he will eventually be canonized.
 
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