Why isn't confirmation harder?

[jmisk]

I can’t help but be envious of the young Jewish boys and girls who enter their faith community through bar it bat mitzvahs. The learning and level of understanding of their faith, in my opinion, seems more engaging and demanding than confirmation for Catholics. When I went to confirmation classes it seemed like all you had to do was show up and maybe buy a tie for your confirmation day.

Maybe 9 out of 10 people from my grade that were confirmed don’t even attend mass anymore.

Does the church and bishop shame the sacrament by offering it to people who will not continue their journey of faith?

Why isn’t confirmation Courses or preperation as thourough as marriage prep? By that I mean why doesnt a priest desern whether a person is ready or willing to be confirmed and why isn’t more asked of the person being confirmed to measure their commitment to the Church?

Are there parishes or diocese that challenge lay members more when being confirmend?

Am I the only one who thinks the sacrement of confirmation is too easy to accept or recieve from the church?

Is their a community that wishes to make confirmation more challenging or demanding?

 

[1ke]

I can’t help but be envious of the young Jewish boys and girls who enter their faith community through bar it bat mitzvahs.

Bar mitzvah and confirmation have no relation to one another.

Does the church and bishop shame the sacrament by offering it to people who will not continue their journey of faith?

Kinda sounds like you have a misconception about grace and the purpose of sacraments.

Why isn’t confirmation Courses or preperation as thourough as marriage prep? By that I mean why doesnt a priest desern whether a person is ready or willing to be confirmed and why isn’t more asked of the person being confirmed to measure their commitment to the Church?

Perhaps you should stop and think that your particular experience may not be the experience in the universal church. Also, while marriage prep is required in some form to ensure the couple understand the essential properties of marriage, nothing in the preparation of the Church is to be a barrier to the sacraments.

Am I the only one who thinks the sacrement of confirmation is too easy to accept or recieve from the church?

what is the purpose of Confirmation? What is the role of grace? Why should grace be withheld? Who is doing the “confirming” in confirmation? Are you aware that the Eastern Rite Catholics confirm infants? And that the actual time of confirmation in the Latin Rite is the age of reason-- i.e. 7 years old. Does this at all change your understanding of confirmation?

Is their a community that wishes to make confirmation more challenging or demanding?

I suggest you rethink your understanding of the sacraments in general, and Confirmation in particular.

 

[Avila123]

Confirmation is a gift and the receiver is free to decline or accept. A person accepting this gift can ask how to use it or put it away on the shelf.

1304 Like Baptism which it completes, Confirmation is given only once, for it too imprints on the soul an indelible spiritual mark, the “character,” which is the sign that Jesus Christ has marked a Christian with the seal of his Spirit by clothing him with power from on high so that he may be his witness. Source: usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm#

As a child I refused this precious gift and was moved to ask for it some 4 years after my reversion. Sometimes I feel as if I am still taking the wrapping off the box. Do I really fully understand, I doubt it, God’s ways are truly mysterious. Maybe what is needed are prayers that children receiving confirmation will discover what a wonderful gift they have been given and that it will help steer them home, should they stray.

The Sacraments are God’s gifts to the Church and the Church freely gives these gifts to those members who are able to receive them in accordance with the Church’s teachings (which are from the Bible). I would not want it any other way. this is my personal view.

 

[svid2]

Pax Christi!

My confirmation, done when I was in 5th or 6th grade, was disappointing. Little was taught or learned. Grace vonferred and received was wasted. Was this my fault? Certainly in part, but if I had been better prepared, with a deep love of the faith, lapsing would have been more difficult.

Today, confirmation takes place when the young person is 16 or 17, and, I believe, more able to appreciate the faith. Love the faith. Cling to the faith.

God bless.

 

[babochka]

Pax Christi!

My confirmation, done when I was in 5th or 6th grade, was disappointing. Little was taught or learned. Grace vonferred and received was wasted. Was this my fault? Certainly in part, but if I had been better prepared, with a deep love of the faith, lapsing would have been more difficult.

Today, confirmation takes place when the young person is 16 or 17, and, I believe, more able to appreciate the faith. Love the faith. Cling to the faith.

God bless.

My confirmation took place when I was an infant, moments after my baptism. The Grace conferred was not wasted - it was nurtured in a faith-filled family. Baptized and sealed by the Holy Spirit from a young age,I have learned to appreciate, love and cling to my faith. A class at age 7 or 10 or 15 cannot accomplish this.

 

[Brendan_64]

Why isn’t confirmation Courses or preperation as thourough as marriage prep? By that I mean why doesnt a priest desern whether a person is ready or willing to be confirmed and why isn’t more asked of the person being confirmed to measure their commitment to the Church?

Because that is not what Confirmation is about. Confirmation is an unconditional, one-way, gift of Grace from God. A person is entitled to be confirmed, it is not a reward for passing a test in catechesis. People should not have to prove themselves worthy, or demonstrate knowledge or commitment in order to be confirmed.

The Eastern Churches confirm as infants, along with Baptism. Personally, I think they have the right idea. Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Communion, all in one hit as an infant. I think we ought to adopt that approach.

A person does not have to prove their readiness to be confirmed. Confirmation is a gift of grace from God, and this gift is unconditional.

Marriage is different, because it is not just between a person and God, another human being is involved in the equation.

 

[1ke]

Grace vonferred and received was wasted.

Why do you think grace was “wasted”?

Today, confirmation takes place when the young person is 16 or 17, and, I believe,

The stated age of confirmation, per universal canon law, is the age of reason. Yes, bishops in various diocese do determine different ages for confirmation locally.

I think it is a big misunderstanding of Confirmation that so many think of it as something someone must have so much academic knowledge to participate in.

 

[Aramis]

I can’t help but be envious of the young Jewish boys and girls who enter their faith community through bar it bat mitzvahs. The learning and level of understanding of their faith, in my opinion, seems more engaging and demanding than confirmation for Catholics. When I went to confirmation classes it seemed like all you had to do was show up and maybe buy a tie for your confirmation day.

Maybe 9 out of 10 people from my grade that were confirmed don’t even attend mass anymore.

Does the church and bishop shame the sacrament by offering it to people who will not continue their journey of faith?

Why isn’t confirmation Courses or preperation as thourough as marriage prep? By that I mean why doesnt a priest desern whether a person is ready or willing to be confirmed and why isn’t more asked of the person being confirmed to measure their commitment to the Church?

Are there parishes or diocese that challenge lay members more when being confirmend?

Am I the only one who thinks the sacrement of confirmation is too easy to accept or recieve from the church?

Is their a community that wishes to make confirmation more challenging or demanding?

Until the late medieval or early renaissance, baptism and confirmation were always given together. It’s not a sacrament of acceptance of the faith - it’s a sacrament about being given the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Brendan_64]

It’s not a sacrament of acceptance of the faith - it’s a sacrament about being given the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

That is correct. I think many are confused because of the name ‘confirmation’., they assume that this means the sacrament is about a person confirming his faith. It is not about this, the confirmation comes from God, not from the person being confirmed.

 

[sirach2v4]

confirmation did not turn me into a sinless person, but I felt very impressed to have received this sacrament, as a communion of the Holy Spirit.

Whereas it may be treated as a gift from God, I think it creates an obligation from me to live up to my faith, based on the grace that it confers.

I like to see the sacrament conferred when a Catholic is at least 12 or 14, and willingly approaches the sacrament. Like a bar mitzvah, I’d like to see the confirmand read something from scripture. I like the Bishop to be the one who confers the sacrament.

Confirmation was a really big deal, with greatly decorated church, when I was a kid.

 

[Brendan_64]

Whereas it may be treated as a gift from God, I think it creates an obligation from me to live up to my faith, based on the grace that it confers.

The sacrament may have caused you to make that obligation, but the sacrament of Confirmation does not insist that. The sacrament is not about you confirming to do anything.

I like to see the sacrament conferred when a Catholic is at least 12 or 14, and willingly approaches the sacrament.

Would you say the same about Baptism? If not, then why not? If any sacrament is one where a person might be seen to make a commitment to God, it is baptism. Baptists believe that infant baptism is not valid, because the person being baptised has not made the choice and commitment themselves.

Yet we baptise infants. Why? Because the sacrament is a one-way process, from God to us. God His grace gives to us unconditionally, it is up to us to try to live our lives as He would want us to. The sacraments are not given as part of a ‘deal’ with God whereby we only get them if we make a solemn promise or commitment to try to live as He wants us to. Nor do we have to prove ourselves ‘worthy’ of His grace through our commitment before receiving the sacrament. How could we possibly be anything remotely close to being worthy of this anyway? The sacraments are given freely and unconditionally by God, it is then up to us afterwards (as before) to try to live as God would want us to. We do not have to make prove ourselves worthy, pass a catechesis test, or make a commitment to receive God’s grace through the sacraments. We do not ‘earn’ the sacraments, how could we?

I think that the Eastern Churches have the right idea. Give Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Communion all together when the child is an infant. There is no theological reason why we ought not to do so, and this would get rid of the misconceptions about confirmation being a about a person making some sort of ‘adult’ commitment to God. It would also help prevent us ‘losing’ teenagers from the sacrament as many who make their Holy Communion drop away before Confirmation. Doing them all together would also be more practical and would have the benefit of doing away with all the First Holy Communion big white dress and party obsession.

It is not a two-way agreement.Like a bar mitzvah, I’d like to see the confirmand read something from scripture.

How is this necessary for God’s grace to flow to the person being confirmed? The person being confirmed is not the focus, the focus is God and His grace. Confirmation is not some sort of right of passage into Christian ‘adulthood’. It is not a Bar Mitzvah.

 

[TRH1292]

I don’t think confirmation should be harder at all.

I do think the classes and catechists should be more precise.

 

[Graceejou]

d God His grace gives to us unconditionally, it is up to us to try to live our lives as He would want us to. The sacraments are not given as part of a ‘deal’ with God whereby we only get them if we make a solemn promise or commitment to try to live as He wants us to. Nor do we have to prove ourselves ‘worthy’ of His grace through our commitment before receiving the sacrament. How could we possibly be anything remotely close to being worthy of this anyway? The sacraments are given freely and unconditionally by God, it is then up to us afterwards (as before) to try to live as God would want us to. We do not have to make prove ourselves worthy, pass a catechesis test, or make a commitment to receive God’s grace through the sacraments. We do not ‘earn’ the sacraments, how could we?

How is necessary for God’s grace to flow to the person being confirmed? The person being confirmed is not the focus, the focus is God and His grace. Confirmation is not some sort of right of passage into Christian ‘adulthood’. It is not a Bar Mitzvah.

It is difficult… if you are an adult choosing the faith.

It does sort of feel like we do have to prove ourselves worthy, and we do sort of *do *have to have a “deal” in order to receive the sacraments though. Confirmation is “the goal” for any adult wishing to be received into the Catholic Church because without being confirmed, you won’t be received. And if you’re not received, you are forbidden the sacraments. And the “deal” part of it is that we must attend and complete RCIA before being permitted to be confirmed and received. It doesn’t matter if the adult has actively lived the Christian faith their entire lives, is baptized and therefore no less Christian than the cradle Catholic sitting next to us. Or even if we have a better understanding of the catechism than 90% of the parishioners. We still have the RCIA requirements and are held to the calendar of when we are allowed to be received. We have to sort of prove we want it. We’re expected to know more than someone who has never practiced any other religion but Catholicism.

It comes down to if you were born into it, it’s yours. If not, you must go through procedures. Sort of like people born in the United States to American parents just become American by birth - nothing necessary to prove you love your country or that you practice patriotism and that you are worthy of being here. A lot Americans know nothing about the Constitution, how the government works, how and why the country was formed, etc. But they get all the rights and privileges of being an American citizen. Others work years just to come here, then more years just to stay and become legal citizens. They could tell you what the different color of stripes on the flag mean, who the presidents for the last 20 years have been, what the Constitution is, the difference between Congress and Senate and what they do, etc. Who is the “better” American?

 

[1ke]

Confirmation is “the goal” for any adult wishing to be received into the Catholic Church because without being confirmed, you won’t be received. And if you’re not received, you are forbidden the sacraments.

This is not accurate. A previously baptized Christian may be received and may receive Eucharist and be confirmed at a later time. There isnothing in canon law that requires profession of faith, Confirmation, and Eucharist be simultaneous. There is a lot of leeway for reception into the Church for the previously baptized.

Unbaptized adults typically receive all three sacraments of intitiation at the same time, but there are exceptions.

And the “deal” part of it is that we must attend and complete RCIA before being permitted to be confirmed and received.

This isn’t accurate either. A person must be suitably instructed and properly disposed to the sacraments. The catechesis that accompanies RCIA is one way to be suitably instructed, but not the only way. And, while the Rites themselves are encouraged, they are not required either.

It doesn’t matter if the adult has actively lived the Christian faith their entire lives, is baptized and therefore no less Christian than the cradle Catholic sitting next to us. Or even if we have a better understanding of the catechism than 90% of the parishioners. We still have the RCIA requirements and are held to the calendar of when we are allowed to be received. We have to sort of prove we want it. We’re expected to know more than someone who has never practiced any other religion but Catholicism.

This is completely untrue. I do not know where you are getting this inaccurate information.

 

[Phemie]

This is completely untrue. I do not know where you are getting this inaccurate information.

I believe that this is what this poster is presently experiencing.

 

[Brendan_64]

It is difficult… if you are an adult choosing the faith…

Well, it should not be like that. RCIA should be about giving the person enough knowledge about the Catholic faith in order for them to be able to make an informed decision about becoming a Catholic.

It does sort of feel like we do have to prove ourselves worthy, and we do sort of *do *have to have a “deal” in order to receive the sacraments though.

Then whoever is doing your RCIA is either placing the wrong emphasis on its purpose, or you are misinterpreting it. That seems to be looking at RCIA upside down. RCIA is there to assist your discernment, not as a test by the parish/diocese to decide upon your ‘worthiness’.

I Confirmation is “the goal” for any adult wishing to be received into the Catholic Church because without being confirmed, you won’t be received.

This is not correct.

You do not have to prove yourself worthy, or pass a test in catechesis, to join the Church. It is advisable, however to have a basic understanding of what the Catholic Church teaches, in order to make an informed decision. What about someone with learning difficulties who wants to become a Catholic? Do we shut the door on them because they cannot demonstrate a sufficient intellectual grasp of Church catechesis? Of course not.

 

[TK421]

Catechizing can and almost surely should be more challenging, but pursuits in study need to be understood as entirely separate from the sacraments. The fundamental quality of the sacraments is that they are God’s grace flowing down in order to make man worthy, not man’s alleged worthiness flowing up in order to receive God’s grace. If we are to look at sacramental graces as being something that must be prepared for through instruction, then we have the opposite idea of what they really are. Of course, it’s standard procedure in Latin dioceses to undergo instruction prior to Confirmation, but this is not set in stone or something that is inherently bound to the sacrament.

 

[1ke]

I believe that this is what this poster is presently experiencing.

That is TERRIBLE.

 

[Cider]

This thread is a perfect example of why IMO we should return to the oldest tradition of the Church of baptism, confirmation and first eucharist in infancy that is maintained in the Eastern churches and the Orthodox. We see repeatedly how moving confirmation to a later date just generates confusing about it’s true meaning and purpose.

And Bar and Bat Mitzvah have no relation to confirmation at all. As a Jew one becomes Bar and Bat Mitzvah when they reach the proper age automatically. You don’t have to do anything. It just happens. The memorizing of that weeks Torah portion and reciting it when called and the typical party afterwards are just outward symbols of what has happened when the person reaches the proper age, they don’t make it happen.

 

[Graceejou]

This is not accurate. A previously baptized Christian may be received and may receive Eucharist and be confirmed at a later time. There isnothing in canon law that requires profession of faith, Confirmation, and Eucharist be simultaneous. There is a lot of leeway for reception into the Church for the previously baptized.

Unbaptized adults typically receive all three sacraments of intitiation at the same time, but there are exceptions.

This isn’t accurate either. A person must be suitably instructed and properly disposed to the sacraments. The catechesis that accompanies RCIA is one way to be suitably instructed, but not the only way. And, while the Rites themselves are encouraged, they are not required either.

This is completely untrue. I do not know where you are getting this inaccurate information.

I assure you, these are all true. I am not lying or have any reason to lie. These are all true in my experience right now in 2014 RCIA. For me and my classmates anyway. The situations I am describing are exactly what I’ve been told and by more than one priest and deacon, that’s where the information is coming from.
Rules of Reception into the church :

• No sacraments, no way. Not until you are confirmed or baptized and confirmed which happens at only Easter. The only exception is confession, which they will let us do a few days before confirmation but not on any set date. This is one thing I really don’t understand, seems like if we are baptized already* and *we’ve gone through the Rite of Acceptance and Rite of Election and are availed a Catholic funeral, we should be able to go to confession if we are baptized.
• There is no exception to being received into the church without completing RCIA. I have asked about this because of some personal health concerns that will cause me to miss several classes in a row, if I could be received earlier. But the answer is that everyone must complete RCIA and be received at Easter:-(

So while these might not be canon law, it’s true for me and my classmates right now in the U. S. I don’t have any reason to lie about it.