Why isn't guaranteed maternity leave a "pro-life" imperative?

[KathleenT]

Agreed.

But having worked for most of my adult life (and not for the government) and had plenty of opportunities to use medical leave, including maternity leave, I can tell you that “paid maternity leave” is, in many ways, a solution in search of a problem.

You aren’t ain’t pro-life or anti-abortion or whatever other slur people have come up with to insist people aren’t “pro-life” or Catholic enough just because you disagree with a particular method of dealing with a problem.

For the women who really need help, paid maternity leave isn’t going to do them any good because an employer is not going to absorb that cost. They are either not going to hire women of child-bearing age (or hire just enough to not raise any eyebrows and hopefully women who already have the average 2.4 kids.) or they will replace the jobs with computers and robots. They will also get by with less employees.

To offset that, people say the state and federal governments should kick in funds. In that case, why make this about employment at all? Why not just make a program for families who had a child…many countries do this when they want to increase the birth rate.

And it isn’t a lack of mercy to point out that adult activities have adult consequences.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

I disagree. I think the sweeping assumption that women in the late stages of being with-child or recently post-partum “can walk like the rest of us” is a bit calloused and over-broad, particularly as women are having children later and later, which is not without biological consequence.

And as I said - they CAN get a temp tag. It’s easy. All they have to do is ask.

I was born when my mother was 39, almost 40, in the heat of the Hawaii summer. She had severe low back pain, borderline preeclampsia, a rare antibody disorder (her body was treating me like a foreign invader), gestational diabetes and a husband who was gone for seven months while she had three other kids at home. Folks manage. And she couldn’t get a temp tag back then.

Your mother sounds like an absolutely amazing woman.

That said, the suffering of one will not serve to justify the suffering of another.

 

[Pup7]

And as I said…all they have to do is ask for a tag. It’s not hard. I’ve seen pregnant women with them. They’re the red temp tags.

All they have to do is ask. It already exists. It should not be automatic because there are others who need the spaces more than many pregnant women do. But if the need is there, they can easily get one.

 

[Vonsalza]

And as I said…all they have to do is ask for a tag. It’s not hard. I’ve seen pregnant women with them. They’re the red temp tags.

All they have to do is ask. It already exists.

Great! Thanks for the information.

Then to evoke the language used to retroactively describe Chalcedon - happy to come to “violent agreement”.

 

[Pup7]

There’s no violence. You just keep stating it should be allowed, or some variant thereof, and it is.

 

[_Ruby]

The way it usually works in the UK is that companies will put out a job advert for the role specifically rather than just going to a temp agency.

For example, when my staff tell me they are pregnant, we discuss when they would like their maternity leave to start and then factor in the time we need to put the advert out, interview and hire a suitable person for maternity leave cover. I usually assume they will take a full year off, which suits most contractors who like to do fixed term cover work.

Our Macular consultant just went on mat leave recently, but the fact we are able to take 52 weeks off means there is plenty of time to plan and its economically viable to hire someone for a years cover rather than just 6 weeks.

 

[goout]

It seems that it;s true that protecting the good and the beautiful requires complex and difficult solutions.
On the one hand: we should do whatever it takes to protect human life.

And at the same time: anything you “tax”, you will get less of it. If you force employers to fund something, they will find ways around it. Fact of life. Raise the minimum wage and you stagnate job growth at that level. etc…

Still, let’s save babies at all costs. Life is not a zero sum game.

 

[Vonsalza]

There’s no violence. You just keep stating it should be allowed, or some variant thereof, and it is.

My apologies.

I thought I’d mentioned it once, you balked, and then we’d spent the last several exchanges justifying our views, which ultimately resolved in agreement that its something already available to pregnant women.

The “violence” was figurative, of course. This being a forum and all.

 

[Pup7]

Suffering is not an excuse for imperialism. If so - hell - there’s a hundred other places we should all put up bases. And why just Americans? We could use a Chinese base in Honduras to help solve the issues there that fuel a lot of our immigration issues, right?

As I said, you have no clue how any of it works. You cannot just fly in and fly out and take everything with you when you go, every time you go. It doesn’t work that way. That’s not imperialism. That’s doing the job.

Why just Americans? Really? Do you have any idea how many allied forces go with us when we do humanitarian aid abroad? You do realize that we don’t foot all of the bill, we have the most airlift assets available, and we also have the largest Reserve force?

It cracks me up when people who don’t know how the system works, how airlift works, how any of it works go off about American imperialism and humanitarian aid. You honestly don’t know how to do our job, and when it’s explained (as with most people who get all up in arms about this), you dismiss it.

Yes, please let the Germans solve German problems. So when we do that, we’re pilloried for that. The DOD is not perfect but she can’t win no matter what she does. She’s damned either way. We go in the country, we’re wrong. We leave and it’s an economic disaster, we’re wrong. We sit back and do nothing, we’re wrong. We get involved - we’re wrong again.

Funnily enough, we’re in Honduras. Doing an awful lot of humanitarian airlift.

 

[QwertyGirl]

I have been in the corporate world for 30 years and every single one had maternity leave. All of them offered paid time after you used you vacation and PTO. You make it sound as if all women that get pregnant are fired the moment the boss finds out.

Lucky you!

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Pup7:

And as I said…all they have to do is ask for a tag. It’s not hard. I’ve seen pregnant women with them. They’re the red temp tags.

All they have to do is ask. It already exists.

Great! Thanks for the information.

Then to evoke the language used to retroactively describe Chalcedon - happy to come to “violent agreement”.

Yeah pregnant women who are having difficulty and postpartum women who have been cleared to drive but are struggling in some aspect EASILY get temp handicapped parking permits.

 

[QwertyGirl]

As to whether those women shold walk from the back of a southern Wal-Mart parking lot in July, my answer is a fairly firm “nope”.

Then those women can get a handicap temporary pass from their doctor, if they need it. Truthfully walking is good for most pregnant women.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

The one thing about “paid maternity leave” that people don’t think about is the fact that after that maternity leave ends, the government basically owns your kid unless you’re super wealthy enough to afford non-government education–which most aren’t. Homeschooling is virtually nonexistent in Europe, if not illegal because their economy depends on the woman being guaranteed to go back to work.

I have an ex-pat friend who married a European. Before she had her second she mentioned to her child’s nursery school teacher she couldn’t wait for the summer because her husband would have off (as a professor) and they could all go do things together. The teacher was baffled. Her son had to go to “school” (2-year-old) or else he’d lose his spot. No one accepted 3-year-olds. No one especially would accept 3year olds who hadn’t been in school.

People who want maternity leave don’t realize that they’d be trading it for other freedoms.

I would much rather choose to live like a pauper hand-to-mouth and work part-time for the ability to have control over my child’s education…and really…life.

 

[QwertyGirl]

And it isn’t a lack of mercy to point out that adult activities have adult consequences.

I understand the point you are trying to make with this. Howver, for people like me who are pro-choice and pro-birth ccontrol, when people say such things here is how it translates:

“Have sex, but you need to be aware you may be cursed with a lifetime of misery if you do. It is natural. We all do it. Oh and nevermind about the kid you may bring into that misery. That is for him/her to worry about. Pity.”

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

Suffering is not an excuse for imperialism. If so - hell - there’s a hundred other places we should all put up bases. And why just Americans? We could use a Chinese base in Honduras to help solve the issues there that fuel a lot of our immigration issues, right?

As I said, you have no clue how any of it works.

That’s not true at all, Pup. You just get a little miffed when you feel like someone is wading in on what you interpret as your turf with a contrary opinion. It might surprise you that my next-oldest sibling is a sister who worked as a nurse in the VA for years before finishing her nurse-prac certification and, oddly, she holds most of the views I do.

You cannot just fly in and fly out and take everything with you when you go, every time you go. It doesn’t work that way. That’s not imperialism. That’s doing the job.

It’s often establishing yet another military installation with open-ended duration (lets not call it a “base”, heaven forbid) that purports to be used for primarily civil purposes, but still interestingly has a substantial facility overlap that would facilitate converting a humanitarian installation into a military one with minimal effort. And the local population is generally pretty aware of that fact.

The aid combined with the passive-aggressive presence is what contributes to the love-hate relationship so many of our international “partners” feel toward us.

You do realize that we don’t foot all of the bill, we have the most airlift assets available, and we also have the largest Reserve force?

Of course. Our military budget has been the largest in the world for a little more than a full generation. That long-term dedication to the cause will naturally bequeath a size benefit.

It cracks me up when people who don’t know how the system works, how airlift works, how any of it works go off about American imperialism and humanitarian aid.

Pup, these people that crack you up apparently feel that there’s a way to do it civilly - or at least in a way that doesn’t involve the DoD. Looking at most of the NGOs around the globe, they appear to be quite right.

Yes, please let the Germans solve German problems. So when we do that, we’re pilloried for that. The DOD is not perfect but she can’t win no matter what she does.

Then at least minimize what she does for no other reason than reducing the exposure to condemnation.

Funnily enough, we’re in Honduras. Doing an awful lot of humanitarian airlift.

And given the migrants into America from Honduras, it appears that those airlifts might not be much more than back-end justification for another asset in USSOUTHCOM.

Not our responsibility, Pup.

If you want to fly aid into Honduras - awesome. Fly it into Tegucigalpa and leave. Let the locals distribute it where they see the greatest need.

 

[Pup7]

t might surprise you that my next-oldest sibling is a sister who worked as a nurse in the VA for years before finishing her nurse-prac certification and, oddly, she holds most of the views I do.

The VA? Working for the VA doesn’t impart operational military knowledge. I have all respect for the VA, but that’s not the same. That’s like saying my husband, who was a DOD contractor, knows how we do our mission. He doesn’t, because that’s not what he did.

Pup, these people that crack you up apparently feel that there’s a way to do it civilly - or at least in a way that doesn’t involve the DoD. Looking at most of the NGOs around the globe, they appear to be quite right.

Yep. Because we don’t do humanitarian airlift civilly in the least.

As I said, you honestly don’t know, and have conflated multiple missions - defense, support, and humanitarian - into the same paragraphs, which wasn’t what I said in the least.

 

[KathleenT]

That’s because you equate having children with misery. That’s your issue.

I am not a sugar-coating Catholic. I’m not here to make you feel good about the fact that life requires you to step up sometimes. I don’t have a lot of tolerance for people who believe destroying a life is a more valid option than practicing some self-control.

As a disabled woman who is well aware that those with disabilities and birth defects are first on the chopping block when it comes to “pro-choice”, I see nothing noble in that movement.

As an American, I understand it is a legal option in this country. But I don’t have to like it, I don’t have to support it, and I certainly don’t have to respect it.

This is a catholic site, don’t be surprised when you run into Catholics.

 

[Pup7]

If you want to fly aid into Honduras - awesome. Fly it into Tegucigalpa and leave. Let the locals distribute it where they see the greatest need.

Which is what we’re doing, at the behest of the Hondurans.

You’re proving your lack of knowledge here. There are laws that govern how long crews can fly, how many hours they can be up, how many hours of crew rest. Again, you have no idea how we do our job.

You need maintainers, airstrip maintenance (if we send a C17 in to an unimproved area), security, support. You can’t just always drop and go. Good grief.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

If you want to fly aid into Honduras - awesome. Fly it into Tegucigalpa and leave. Let the locals distribute it where they see the greatest need.

Which is what we’re doing, at the behest of the Hondurans.

You’re proving your lack of knowledge here. There are laws that govern how long crews can fly, how many hours they can be up, how many hours of crew rest. Again, you have no idea how we do our job.

Pup, I honestly don’t care about how you do your job.

I question whether you should be doing it from a policy standpoint.

 

[Pup7]

Lol. So when someone requests aid (Honduras), you’re saying policy should dictate that we refuse.

Damned either way, as I said.

I’m talking about humanitarian missions here.