Why isn't guaranteed maternity leave a "pro-life" imperative?

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She has a point. Consumerism is a huge problem in America, along with our debt. Many people are working to support their lifestyle and shopping habits. Most of us could get by on less.

I know many women who work because staying at home is hard and scary. They worry they aren’t good enough or doing enough for their kids. They get lonely and the whole word is telling them how much better off their kids will be in daycare.

Women don’t just work to put clothes on their kids back and food on the table. They work for a number of reasons and one is the fact that “homemakers” aren’t valued by society anymore.
 
I haven’t called you anything in the least. Show me where you’ve been called a name by me. You can’t. I haven’t even said “KJW5551 is a judgy Catholic”, though you’ve accused me of doing that. That was never specifically directed at you. You’ve tagged me in that phrase, though, and I never said it about you specifically. I said there’s a lot of “judgy Catholics” around today. Never said it about you.

You are indeed judging people for being unmarried and pregnant. That’s not our call.
 
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Yet many families throughout history have done and continue to do just that, without government subsidies.
 
If you are genuinely in poverty, significant and real change is required to get you out of it. I don’t think such a woman should be raising more children, but adoption doesn’t include murder and is better for the child.

I don’t think enabling single mothers in poverty does anything but perpetuate problems into the next generation. We should enable adoption, not single moms who can’t financial support a family.
 
Amen. Time to remember what a noble profession “homemaker” truly is.
Ask any man who has tackled the job.
 
Pup7 said:
Awful lot of judgy Catholics around today.
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You called me a “judgy Catholic” (you can deny you were referring to me, but please. Its obvious from the context.) You have repeatedly (in your last post!) said that I am judging people when I am not. Are you inside of my head and my heart? I am not judging anyone with my comments in this thread.
 
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I don’t know what bubble you’re living in or what rose-colored glasses you are wearing or how much your husband is earning enough to comfortably support your family. If his wages alone can keep your family comfortable, good for you.

But the reality is, the basics alone are expensive. I would love to stay at home to care for my child on her first year is, but I need health insurance. Baby needs health insurance. Mortgage, Savings, weekly church offerings, transportation, food, etc. Don’t tell me or anyone who wants these basics I’m or we’re being hypermaterialistic.

I don’t think it’s a sin to want to be comfortable. If I were gambling mindlessly and lavishly spending money I didn’t have on stupid things I cannot afford, sure, crucify me - - but if I just want the simple basics and these basics come with a price…C’mon…You’ve got to be kidding me.
 
I’m in favor of programs such as guaranteed parental leave and such. That said, limited resources isn’t an excuse to kill your own child, as anxiety inducing the prospecr may be. It’s not equal weight.
 
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I think the point is to not enable them to continue the cycle of poor life choices. I have a close family member- a working class mother of 4 children she had with 3 mostly deadbeat men out of wedlock. She made a living wage for herself, but not more. It was hard, but she took what PTO she could for maternity leave and returned to work. People are already stuck in a “sex is needed so casual sex is fine” mental state. Think what paid leave would enable in people’s minds. How many poor life choices/bad habits should we fully fund? By the way the working class mom-shes fine. There are subsidies already available if she needs them, but luckily she has family support too and by that I don’t mean money.
 
I said there are an awful lot of judgy Catholics about. No need to accuse me of pointing out you.

You kept it up after I’d left by tagging me in a silly effort to be amusing. Why?

You keep talking about who’s been to church and who’s unmarried like it’s relevant. That indeed comes across as judgmental. Being married hasn’t stabilized anything in this country. Look at the divorce rate.

Married women also get abortions.
 
But most women work to support their husband with the basics.

So many women would love to be full time moms, but just cant afford to do so.

And if if a woman wants to continue working for her own personal development, why not? It doesn’t make her less of a “mother”.
 
Monica83 said:
I think the point is to not enable them to continue the cycle of poor life choices. I have a close family member- a working class mother of 4 children she had with 3 mostly deadbeat men out of wedlock. She made a living wage for herself, but not more. It was hard, but she took what PTO she could for maternity leave and returned to work. People are already stuck in a “sex is needed so casual sex is fine” mental state. Think what paid leave would enable in people’s minds. How many poor life choices/bad habits should we fully fund? By the way the working class mom-shes fine. There are subsidies already available if she needs them, but luckily she has family support too and by that I don’t mean money.
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So my getting paid maternity leave as a married woman sets me up for making poor life choices?

This isn’t all about unmarried women having multiple kids. This would benefit everyone.
 
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phil19034 said:
Really, you get what you pay for. California shouldn’t have to pay for Mississippi, and vice versa.

But, then again, I identity myself as a Pennsylvanian (and native Delawarean) before I identify as an American. Personally, I would rather pay more taxes on a State level than the federal level.
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I think we don’t frequently get what we paid for, but pushing responsibility down to local levels helps you hold them accountable. Also, competition between states and cities does improve innovation.
 
Sacrifice. No one wants to sacrifice material “comfort.”
 
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Pup7 said:
You keep talking about who’s been to church and who’s unmarried like it’s relevant.
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I keep talking about these things because the statistics say they are directly relevant to who is having abortions in this country. According to the Guttmacher Institute, 86% of women who have abortions are unmarried. Do you deny that a renewed culture of strong marriages would lower the abortion rate?

Dispute the facts if you want to, but don’t dismiss them sight unseen. It’s not good argumentation.
 
So I have read through this whole thread. It was started to discuss provision of maternity leave as a possible way of reducing abortion. Here are the issues being discussed:
  • Homemaker is no longer an honored occupation
  • Women selfishly working to fulfill their own needs
  • Federal vs. State support of paid maternity leave
  • Hypermaterialism in today’s world
  • Church going status of those who may need maternity leave
  • Marital status of thos who may need maternity leave
    And these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. You see? Easy enough to say one is Pro-Life. The reality is, it is a very complicated issue, and that is for people who aren’t even considering an abortion at the moment. I think @Pup7 has it right when she says we shouldn’t be so quick to judge. Especially when putting taxpayer money where your mouth is apparently doesn’t come so easy for a lot of you here. Complicated issue with a lot of facets.
 
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So out of my list of the below
  • health insurance
  • savings
  • weekly church offerings
  • mortgage
  • education expenses
  • food
What should one sacrifice??? I don’t think the above mentioned things are “luxuries”
 
Do have any idea of the cost of supporting a family these days? Most families struggle even with both parents working decent paying jobs. Maternity leave policies would help literally millions of women who want to stay with their infants for at least the first few months.
 
KJW5551 said:
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Pup7:
You keep talking about who’s been to church and who’s unmarried like it’s relevant.
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I keep talking about these things because the statistics say they are directly relevant to who is having abortions in this country. According to the Guttmacher Institute, 86% of women who have abortions are unmarried. Do you deny that a renewed culture of strong marriages would lower the abortion rate?

Dispute the facts if you want to, but don’t dismiss them sight unseen. It’s not good argumentation.
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There is no way to tell if a culture of stronger marriages would lower anything if those women are not married when they get an abortion.

That’s comparing apples to oranges. You don’t know if they’d be married anyway.

Also, you do know the abortion rate in this country drops every year, right? Despite the relatively high divorce rate? The rate is dropping.

It seriously doesn’t matter if people are married or not or marriages are stronger or not if 86% are unmarried. Because they’re unmarried.
 
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No one said that it does.

But it is equally wrong to say ALL mothers only work to help with the basics, plenty don’t.

The truth is, prior to women entering the workforce in droves men’s salaries could easily cover the basics. It was the dual income that started driving up the prices as did the widespread extension of credit. Think how many industries exist because people work. House cleaning services, lawn services, prepackaged meals, restaurants (at the rate we currently have them), daycare, etc.

Re-introducing the concept of a homemaker and a single income household is a valid economical option worth considering.

It really wouldn’t be that hard. Give a break for a mortgage if one parent is not employed and there are children. Give more tax credits etc. Help with utilities or food.

It is just as valid an idea as mandate paid leave.
 
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