Why isn't guaranteed maternity leave a "pro-life" imperative?

[Theo520]

We know the outlook for kids of single mothers in poverty is bleak, how can it get much worse? We shouldn’t not support adoption because of the exceptions - abusive adoptive parents.

If we didn’t enable single mothers we might actually get fewer of them

I do think we could find homes for the babies, plenty of people adopting abroad because they are desperate.

 

[KathleenT]

The same reason you reacted negatively to the idea they unemployed women should get the same benefit, it violates people’s sense of fair play.

 

[Pup7]

Really? An earned paid benefit denies fair play?

I guess that unemployed person should earn the same amount of money I do then. With my benefits and entitlements.

No.

That’s not how that works where countries have mandated maternity leave, either.

The only place that doesn’t apply is healthcare. That should be equal for all. Work benefits aren’t for someone who chooses not to work.

 

[QwertyGirl]

It’s called the Evangelical Counsels. To which all Catholics are called. My diocese has them on its website. I’d guess other dioceses do too.
Not to mention Jesus didn’t say “blessed are those who seek material comfort and a middle class living.”

Not the same as being “called” to poverty.

 

[Pup7]

Yeah when I converted they didn’t take my car, my house, and my paycheck. I didn’t take a vow of poverty either.

 

[anon10271182]

What else would followers of Christ be called to?

 

[Belina]

Of course I support adoption. It’s the best option for many kids. But not all kids do well with adoption. It’s too simple to say that supporting adoption will lead to fewer abortions and happier kids. So we need to do more than that. We don’t know if there are enough adoptive parents out there who are truly a good fit for every child in need. Some adoptive parents are awesome parents, but that doesn’t mean their adoptive children are good matches for them. Some have unique needs and circumstances that can only be met by specific types of parents.

I truly wish and pray that fornication, domestic abuse, adultery, abandonment of spouses, selfish desires, and the bad messages sent by our society would all end. Otherwise, we’re always going to have single mothers. Not all single mothers in poverty are going to choose adoption. Even if you think that’s the best option for them, they might not. So, we should assist the ones who aren’t choosing adoption to improve their situations. And situations can improve! Some single moms who live in poverty may eventually end up moving up the socio-economic ladder! Nothing’s set in stone. Until their situations improve, though, we pro-life and pro-family people have a moral obligation to provide them with the assistance they need to improve their lives and children’s lives. This assistance MAY include support of paid parental leave, or it may include support of other pro-life, pro-family laws. How we can best help them is debatable.

Anyway, it’s not just single mothers living in poverty. As I’ve mentioned in my previous reply to your post, there are lots of married couples who are living in poverty for many reasons, including some that are circumstances beyond their control. We need to think of solutions to help them as well. Otherwise, we’re going to continue to have lots of abortions, lots of unhappy families, and a society that’s weakened even further by the lack of respect for life, love, family, morals, authority, etc.

 

[phil19034]

And plenty of women in the military and working for the Feds get promoted despite the longer maternity leave.

Military promotions are different though. Honestly, I wish the private sector used the kind of criteria the military uses to determine promotions.

 

[KathleenT]

But it is not earned if it is mandated.

Maybe we are not talking about the same thing. Are you stating the employee should get unpaid leave or paid leave using PTO they have earned? (Which is what we currently have) Or are you saying the employee should get paid leave regardless of the PTO they have earned?

Should the employee pay into anything for this? Like we do for SS and unemployment? If so, that already exists, it is called disability insurance and it covers bedrest and postpartum recovery once the PTO of the employee is exhausted.

 

[Theo520]

Children who grow up with only one of their biological parents (nearly always the mother) are disadvantaged across a broad array of outcomes. They are twice as likely to drop out of high school, 2.5 times as likely to become teen mothers, and 1.4 times as likely to be idle – out of school and out of work – as children who grow up with both parents. Children in one-parent families also have lower grade point averages, lower college aspirations, and poorer attendance records. As adults, they have higher rates of divorce. These patterns persist even after adjusting for differences in race, parents’ education, number of siblings, and residential location.

 

[Pup7]

Sure it is.

Your eight hour workday is earned, right?

Also mandated.

Wages are mandated. So is overtime pay for hourly employees.

So my entitlements aren’t earned? Mine actually ARE mandated (2.5 days of leave for every thirty days worked/served, sick time is not charged, housing allowance, food allowance, 12 weeks maternity leave, my GI Bill, retirement pension that I don’t pay into…all mandated.) Do I not earn them by working?

 

[Pup7]

called disability insurance and it covers bedrest and postpartum recovery once the PTO of the employee is exhausted.

Only if you can pay for it, and no, it doesn’t in all cases.

 

[phil19034]

It’s not an argument. It’s a question.

Why can’t we? What’s so terrible about it?

People talk all the time about supporting the family, but you say “mandate maternity leave” and oh no - people want something for nothing and oh it would cost too much and oh the strain on businesses and it’s unreasonable and oh my taxes and yet we are the only nation without it.

Why?

I have never had a kid and I am 100% for it. There is zero logic in sending someone back to work right after childbirth. Pregnancy and childbirth are still a leading cause of death and post-birth complications are extremely common, especially post-Caesarian thanks to lousy insurance companies that punt women out after 48 to 72 hours following major surgery.

My wife had two C-Sections, so did my sister, and my cousin’s wife. So I know the need for parental leave, esp for c-section births.

I’m 100% for it. However, like I’ve said before, the issue we have in America is how to pay for it because, unlike other nations, we have a TON tied up in military spending at the federal level. Also, unlike many other countries, the United States is a federation, where power is defaulted to the state level, not the federal level.

Countries like the UK, France, etc are not federations, while other federations like Canada, power defaults to the federal govt instead of the provincial governments.

So again, I’m 100% for family leave. But if it is paid for by govt, I would want to see it paid for by the states, not the federal govt.

BTW - I found this image very interesting regarding how much the US spends on the military.

 

[Pup7]

Pup7:

And plenty of women in the military and working for the Feds get promoted despite the longer maternity leave.

Military promotions are different though. Honestly, I wish the private sector used the kind of criteria the military uses to determine promotions.

I’ll agree with that for active duty. The Federal GS system is a bit different. But yes - neither are like the civilian sector. Fair point.

People still griped.

 

[Pup7]

Ah, the old “we spend too much on defense” near trope. :woman_facepalming:t3: It’s not interesting to me. We also have an all volunteer force, compete with the private sector, and do far more than the average civilian has a clue about. Mostly with inadequate manning these days and a rapidly aging infrastructure - the stuff CNN never talks about.

I’m not getting into a military spending debate.

 

[phil19034]

Ah, the old “we spend too much on defense” near trope. :woman_facepalming:t3: It’s not interesting to me. We also have an all volunteer force, compete with the private sector, and do far more than the average civilian has a clue about. Mostly with inadequate manning these days and a rapidly aging infrastructure - the stuff CNN never talks about.

I’m not getting into a military spending debate.

You misunderstand me. I’m not complaining about how much we spend on military. I’m simply stating that the United States years ago made military spending priority number one (for many valid reasons).

A lot of other nations didn’t do that because they didn’t have to, and some even took advantage of the fact the US was their ally, so they prioritized their spending in other areas.

I believe we have many valid reasons for our military spending.

BTW - I say far away from CNN. They are not the news agency they once were.

 

[Pup7]

All fair. I passed judgment far too quickly and I’ll apologize. Even though I think you know why. Lol that NEVER ends that way.

I like grilled crow. Slightly browned, nice sauce on the side.

You really couldn’t be more right about CNN.

 

[babochka]

Theo520:

Pup7:

We are the only developed nation without mandated paid maternity leave.

Not really true, we do have mandated leave for many employers, just not all.

FMLA is not paid time off. Read the law.

We are the only nation without mandated maternity leave. It’s national law around the world.

One employer in the US has Federally mandated maternity leave. I work for it. It’s the Pentagon.

Part of the problem is that we are 50 individual states and constitutionally, this clearly falls to the states. I live in a state that has covered childbirth under disability laws for a very long time. That way, the specific burden doesn’t fall on the individual employer. Generally, this means 2/3 pay for 6 or 8 weeks, depending upon whether or not the woman had a c-section. It isn’t great, but it is a start.

 

[Escabrosa]

Aside from taking steps to make deliveries more affordable, shouldn’t maternity leave be an essential part of what it means to be “pro-life”?

Absolutely not. The only thing that’s essential to the pro-life position is to understand that each and every person has inherent dignity, from conception to natural death. Don’t imply conditions, that negates the inherent part.

 

[Pup7]

Pup7:

Theo520:

Pup7:

We are the only developed nation without mandated paid maternity leave.

Not really true, we do have mandated leave for many employers, just not all.

FMLA is not paid time off. Read the law.

We are the only nation without mandated maternity leave. It’s national law around the world.

One employer in the US has Federally mandated maternity leave. I work for it. It’s the Pentagon.

Part of the problem is that we are 50 individual states and constitutionally, this clearly falls to the states. I live in a state that has covered childbirth under disability laws for a very long time. That way, the specific burden doesn’t fall on the individual employer. Generally, this means 2/3 pay for 6 or 8 weeks, depending upon whether or not the woman had a c-section. It isn’t great, but it is a start.

That’s actually awesome and is a far cry from having absolutely nothing.