When a person is subjected to testing by fire, and suffers loss, it is related to the spiritual, not the physical.
The only thing that can cleanse us is the blood of Christ… I John 1:7 is clear about this: but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
It is His blood only that cleanses us and not fire.
We are in agreement on the blood of Christ. But, Jesus applies the blood atonement to us in a number of ways. One is persecution, one is baptism, one is being tested by fire, etc. etc.
Here is the passage:
1Cor 3
12 Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw –
13 each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
Where do you see in this passage anything about a person’ soul being cleansed? I see works being tested by fire but nothing about a soul being cleansed by fire.
Here is the passage:
1Cor 3
12 Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw –
13 each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
Where do you see in this passage anything about a person’ soul being cleansed? I see works being tested by fire but nothing about a soul being cleansed by fire.
I think a person could only say such a thing who did not understand what it is like to “suffer loss”. Either you have never really experienced a loss, or you are unable to feel.
This testing is something that happens after we die in which we do not have a physical body as such.
Sometimes I seriously worry about your reasoning ability (or lack of it, I should say). Yes, this is after we are separated from the body, which is why it is not a physical or material loss, but one that affects us at the soul level. Can you think of any reason Jesus would allow a saved person to “suffer loss” other that to perfect them for heaven?
Here is what the New American Bible (A Catholic Bible) says about this verse in its footnotes:
[11] Baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire: the water baptism of John will be followed by an “immersion” of the repentant in the cleansing power of the Spirit of God, and of the unrepentant in the destroying power of God’s judgment. However, some see the holy Spirit and fire as synonymous, and the effect of this “baptism” as either purification or destruction. See the note on Luke 3:16
Here is what it says about the verse in Luke 3:16:
[16] He will baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire: in contrast to John’s baptism with water, Jesus is said to baptize with the holy Spirit and with fire. From the point of view of the early Christian community, the Spirit and fire must have been understood in the light of the fire symbolism of the pouring out of the Spirit at Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4); but as part of John’s preaching, the Spirit and fire should be related to their purifying and refining characteristics (Ezekiel 36:25-27; Malachi 3:2-3). See the note on Matthew 3:11.
As you can see by these Catholic scholars it has nothing to do with purgatory.
I believe that you cannot “see” it, ja4. But Catholics understand fire to be purifying. The dross is separated, and we are made fit for heaven. This is the work of the HS.
If its not then its not about purgatory since this passage is said to be about purgatory which happens after you die. Correct?
Not necessarily. Many people are purified while they are on earth.
So we agree at this point that when we repent and ask forgiveness we are cleansed by the blood of Christ? There is no further punishment or cleansing needed to purify me?
Forgiveness does not mean that all the consequences or the attachment to the sin is gone. Although Jesus can cleanse us immediately, He does not always. He accepted the repentance of the thief next to HIm on the cross, but instead of taking the thief with Him when He departed, he allowed the thief to continue to pay “the just penalty” of his sins, hanging all day suffering, and finally getting his legs broke.
If you look at I Cor 3 it says nothing about sin but only about the “quality of the man’s work”.
Do you think a person who produces bad works does not have a sin problem?
) is going to be in Purg… but the saints say it is far better to do our Purg here than in the next life… where it will be more painful… (because, no doubt, God wants us to do good HERE… and not put it off)…
