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mdgspencer
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History teaches us that iconoclasm (the destruction of images) is often followed by something worse, this account shows.
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"Why It Won’t Stop With Statues." Article on why it can be expected that the mayhem will get worse
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History teaches us that iconoclasm (the destruction of images) is often followed by something worse, this account shows.
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VonDerTann
Guest
The article is powerful and IMHO convincing.
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Hodos
Guest
It gets very difficult to put a rogue genie back in the bottle once it is out. Democrats are playing with fire by generating the ideology and mouthing the platitudes that have given rise to this chaos. I think they believe they can turn it off when they will should they win in November. They want to use it like one would a highly trained K-9 work dog. The problem is they are more likely in possession of a dog crazed by rabies, unwilling to obey the master. Maybe they are right, but I am pretty skeptical they will be able to get it back under control. We are in for a bumpy ride to come.
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ColoradoCatholic
Guest
Even though the “liberal side” is mad enough to decapitate statues whether or not they know why, it concerns me that “conservatives” don’t seem to be as active. It scares me to think what actions will cause “conservatives” to start actively fighting against these more “liberal” groups. Unfortunately for all of us, I don’t see it happening until more people are unnecessarily harmed.
Either way, pray that a “spark” doesn’t happen.
Either way, pray that a “spark” doesn’t happen.
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ZemD
Guest
I’ve thought about this as well.
I hope that conservatives are waiting to vote in November, to vote against the lawlessness. As opposed to publicly demonstrating.
I hope that conservatives are waiting to vote in November, to vote against the lawlessness. As opposed to publicly demonstrating.
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ZemD
Guest
The article is chilling. But I agree with it, if these riots are not forcefully stopped they will come for people after all the statues are gone. They are already taking away people’s livelihoods and reputations.
This began long before the riots and will continue for a long time.They are already taking away people’s livelihoods and reputations.
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ZemD
Guest
You are right. It does seem more prolific now though.
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Shakuhachi
Guest
"First it should be understood that often the resentment is rooted in a real injustice. There is a genuine cause for the resentment to take root. However, if the resentment does not switch to reconciliation and a search for forgiveness, it graduates instead into a lust for revenge. The one harboring resentment soon finds others who share his suppressed fury. The mob forms and they seek a victim.
“The only answer to resentment and revenge is for all people of faith and goodwill to actively pursue the policies of reconciliation and forgiveness, and the sooner we start down that difficult and painful road the better — for even now it may be too late.”
What if the perpetrators of the initial injustice do not acknowledge it nor seek forgiveness nor reconciliation? That seem to be where the Right is today.
“The only answer to resentment and revenge is for all people of faith and goodwill to actively pursue the policies of reconciliation and forgiveness, and the sooner we start down that difficult and painful road the better — for even now it may be too late.”
What if the perpetrators of the initial injustice do not acknowledge it nor seek forgiveness nor reconciliation? That seem to be where the Right is today.
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VonDerTann
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–Because there often was no “injustice.” The rioters are tearing down statutes of Catholic saints; Lincoln; US Grant; and others who had nothing to do with alleged racism.What if the perpetrators of the initial injustice do not acknowledge it nor seek forgiveness nor reconciliation? That seem to be where the Right is today.
Americans whose ancestors came to the US after slavery ended are tired of being told how racist they are.
“Systemic racism” is a myth, unless one means, say, affirmative action AKA favoring minorities for reasons other than merit.
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Shakuhachi
Guest
Do you get it. It is not just about slavery.Americans whose ancestors came to the US after slavery ended are tired of being told how racist they are.
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VonDerTann
Guest
Do I “get”…what?
What’s not just about slavery?
What I “get” is that there are no excuses possible for, say, burning the federal courthouse in Portland; Doxxing the officers there, and permanently blinding one with a laser; there are no excuses for looting stores and burning down one’s own neighborhood.
What’s not just about slavery?
What I “get” is that there are no excuses possible for, say, burning the federal courthouse in Portland; Doxxing the officers there, and permanently blinding one with a laser; there are no excuses for looting stores and burning down one’s own neighborhood.
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Elizabeth3
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They are already eating their own. Did you see how they treated the Portland mayor when he tried to reason with them?Democrats are playing with fire by generating the ideology and mouthing the platitudes that have given rise to this chaos. I think they believe they can turn it off when they will should they win in November.
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Shakuhachi
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Did you read the article?
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VonDerTann
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Uhhh…yes, I was the first commenter.
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stpurl
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Wait, what?
Exactly what ‘initial injustices’ have been perpetrated by “the Right?”
I do not mean this in a ‘pearl clutching surely no one has ever done anything bad’ way.
I truly mean, exactly what “initial injustices’ have been perpetrated, upon whom, by “the Right’, which have not been acknowledged or sought forgiveness for?
Let’s take racism. First, are there people who belong to the political Right who are Black? Otherwise non-white? So what then of them? Are they, victims of racial injustice, ‘perpetrators’ as well?
Are only people ‘on the Right” racists? Are there no ‘Leftist’ racists? Have they all acknowledged then their injustice? Really? How have they done so? What exactly has been done—and I mean done, not simply ‘said’ or virtue-shamed’ (words are cheap)—which have not been done by “the Right?”
Let’s have some good, solid specific examples please.
Exactly what ‘initial injustices’ have been perpetrated by “the Right?”
I do not mean this in a ‘pearl clutching surely no one has ever done anything bad’ way.
I truly mean, exactly what “initial injustices’ have been perpetrated, upon whom, by “the Right’, which have not been acknowledged or sought forgiveness for?
Let’s take racism. First, are there people who belong to the political Right who are Black? Otherwise non-white? So what then of them? Are they, victims of racial injustice, ‘perpetrators’ as well?
Are only people ‘on the Right” racists? Are there no ‘Leftist’ racists? Have they all acknowledged then their injustice? Really? How have they done so? What exactly has been done—and I mean done, not simply ‘said’ or virtue-shamed’ (words are cheap)—which have not been done by “the Right?”
Let’s have some good, solid specific examples please.
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Shakuhachi
Guest
How about the killing of George Floyd to start with? Just another death? How about white supremacists support of our current president. No not all on the Right ar racist. Yes some on the Left as well. Racism is pervasive and so much a part of our lives that unless one is a victim it goes unotices. Can you not acknowledge it? It was only a few decades ago the civil rights were legally achieved. What a slow and painful process that was. Were you there to witness that? Even today their right to vote is challenged.
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SpaghettiCowboy
Guest
The author of the article cited in by the OP grossly oversimplifies his historical examples. And “Post hoc ergo propter hoc” was one of the first logical fallacies we were taught in school.
Actually, I’d say the destruction of monuments is a pretty controlled response. Response to what, you might ask? To the treatment of Mr. Floyd, et. al., and to the repeated acts of injustice that have taken a surprisingly long time to bring about the current tipping point.
The looting and destruction of businesses is shameful and needs to stop. As for the statues, a generational cleansing of symbols is not necessarily a bad thing. But good luck finding pure and perfect heroes to put up on new pedestals.
Actually, I’d say the destruction of monuments is a pretty controlled response. Response to what, you might ask? To the treatment of Mr. Floyd, et. al., and to the repeated acts of injustice that have taken a surprisingly long time to bring about the current tipping point.
The looting and destruction of businesses is shameful and needs to stop. As for the statues, a generational cleansing of symbols is not necessarily a bad thing. But good luck finding pure and perfect heroes to put up on new pedestals.
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VonDerTann
Guest
A “pretty controlled response?”
Do you think the following are “pretty controlled”?
–repeatedly assaulting police with bricks; bottles; spitting at them; and throwing Molotov cocktails;
–doxxing agents;
–blinding one with a laser;
–setting up the CHOP/CHAZ zone…
–…then terrorizing the residents thereof;
–repeated destruction to and disrespect of private property including by burning and spraying spray paint on everything in sight;
–looting and stealing literally everything of value in many stores;
–creating the most costly civil disturbance in US history.
…because that’s what we’ve seen in recent weeks across the US.
We won’t even go to calling pulling down statues of every conceivable leader “cleansing of generational symbols.”
Do you think the following are “pretty controlled”?
–repeatedly assaulting police with bricks; bottles; spitting at them; and throwing Molotov cocktails;
–doxxing agents;
–blinding one with a laser;
–setting up the CHOP/CHAZ zone…
–…then terrorizing the residents thereof;
–repeated destruction to and disrespect of private property including by burning and spraying spray paint on everything in sight;
–looting and stealing literally everything of value in many stores;
–creating the most costly civil disturbance in US history.
…because that’s what we’ve seen in recent weeks across the US.
We won’t even go to calling pulling down statues of every conceivable leader “cleansing of generational symbols.”
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brown_bear
Guest
From Europe it is difficult to understand the dimensions of the phenomenon.
Everyone here talks about the statue of Columbus, but how many other episodes have there been?
Is the offense against sacred images episodic or systematic?
It needs us to compare this case with what has been happening dramatically in France for years, although the motivations of the French iconoclasts are probably different.
In short, it’s about understanding better.
Everyone here talks about the statue of Columbus, but how many other episodes have there been?
Is the offense against sacred images episodic or systematic?
It needs us to compare this case with what has been happening dramatically in France for years, although the motivations of the French iconoclasts are probably different.
In short, it’s about understanding better.
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