Why Jesus did not openly say this: "I AM GOD'

  • Thread starter Thread starter fredms3
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Tomdstone said:
Here you say that Jesus is omniscient. But that was the question. If He is omniscient, would He know the day or the hour? Would the Holy Spirit know the day or the hour? But only the Father knows the day or the hour.
Click to expand...
In my opinion, Jesus knows as God, but He is acknowledging His Sonship, and the Father is before the Son in that relationship, He proceeds from the Father, and He is speaking in that relationship with the Father, this relationship is eternal, because God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are eternal. all One God, an Eternal Love Triangle. Jesus in acknowledging the Priority of the Father, separate, but one. Divine Mystery As God, I say He knows, as Son, He acknowledges the Father’s priority, as all things issue from Him. He was sent by the Father as His Son, He did His Father’s will, always acknowledging His Father’s priority, and He knew why the Father sent Him, He shared the Same Divinity with the Father, and He is equal to the Father and the Holy Spirit. To know this Mystery, is to know God, and to understand how He can draw something from nothing. What mortal can understand that, impossible. How can the created know the Creator in His fullness, can you pour the ocean into a bucket?
 
Originally** Posted by PNEUMA **View Post
Jesus did not say he was Yahweh (I am) that is God the Father, as several poster seems to think
Click to expand...
.

THE REPLY
JB_Brother_4446 said:
You clearly disregard the opening verses in John’s gospel. “In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God. And the Word was God.” Emphasis mine.
Click to expand...
My comments [PJM]

Apocalypse (Revelation) 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, saith the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.

Apocalypse (Revelation) 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end

Apocalypse (Revelation) 21:6
And he said to me: It is done. I am Alpha and Omega; the beginning and the end. To him that thirsteth, I will give of the fountain of the water of life, freely.

Apocalypse (Revelation) 22:16
I Jesus have sent my angel, to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the root and stock of David, the bright and morning star
 
PJM said:
My comments [PJM]

Apocalypse (Revelation) 21:6
And he said to me: It is done. I am Alpha and Omega; the beginning and the end. To him that thirsteth, I will give of the fountain of the water of life, freely.
Click to expand...
This is God the Father speaking !

Revelation 21:3-7 (RSVCE) "God himself will be with them; he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.”And he who sat upon the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Also he said, “Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true.” And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give water without price from the fountain of the water of life. He who conquers shall have this heritage, and I will be his God and he shall be my son."
 
PNEUMA said:
Because he’s a human, it’s as simple as that.
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ is the second person of the Trinity made flesh.

He has two natures, one divine personhood.
Divine nature, and assumed fully human nature. One person.
“Hypostatic union”.
 
PNEUMA said:
This is God the Father speaking !

Revelation 21:3-7 (RSVCE) “God himself will be with them; he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.”And he who sat upon the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Also he said, “Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true.” And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give water without price from the fountain of the water of life. He who conquers shall have this heritage, and I will be his God and he shall be my son.”
Click to expand...
And the Word was God! Jesus is the Word so therefore Jesus is God!
 
There are lots of good comments and Bible verses mentioned here. I don’t have much to add except to say that this is the kind of thing that’s much more difficult to understand as people living in 2016 in the West. A Jew 2,000 years ago in Israel would have no doubt that “Before Abraham was, I am” means Jesus is claiming to be God–that’s why they tried to stone him. Same with forgiving sins.
 
PNEUMA said:
This is God the Father speaking !

Revelation 21:3-7 (RSVCE) “God himself will be with them; he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.”And he who sat upon the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Also he said, “Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true.” And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give water without price from the fountain of the water of life. He who conquers shall have this heritage, and I will be his God and he shall be my son.”
Click to expand...
TRUE, but only relevant IF there are in fact, more than One True God:)
 
sudy said:
Actually no, I’m sorry but I don’t understand that. If you are in the form of God, and equal to God, and One with God… to me this is God. We know there is only one God.

Could you explain how you understand it please? What is he if he’s in the form of God and equal to God and one with God?
Click to expand...
I’m with you !
 
PJM said:
PNEUMA;13812171:
This is God the Father speaking !

Revelation 21:3-7 (RSVCE)
Click to expand...
"God himself will be with them; he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.”And he who sat upon the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Also he said, “Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true.” And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give water without price from the fountain of the water of life. He who conquers shall have this heritage, and I will be his God and he shall be my son."TRUE, but only relevant IF there are in fact, more than One True God:)
Click to expand...
The above words are something God the Father says, when he resumes his high office. At the time being, Jesus holds the office of God. And that’s something that’s very difficult to understand for Jews and others.
 
Bill_Martin said:
There are lots of good comments and Bible verses mentioned here. I don’t have much to add except to say that this is the kind of thing that’s much more difficult to understand as people living in 2016 in the West. A Jew 2,000 years ago in Israel would have no doubt that “Before Abraham was, I am” means Jesus is claiming to be God–that’s why they tried to stone him. Same with forgiving sins.
Click to expand...
No, its the other way around. The Jews thought Jesus was playing God, whereas in fact, God had given Jesus the authority to forgive sins and so on.
 
pneuma said:
the above words are something god the father says, when he resumes his high office. At the time being, jesus holds the office of god. And that’s something that’s very difficult to understand for jews and others.
Click to expand...
agreed!
 
Tomdstone said:
Here you say that Jesus is omniscient. But that was the question. If He is omniscient, would He know the day or the hour? Would the Holy Spirit know the day or the hour? But only the Father knows the day or the hour.
Click to expand...
We are delving into a mystery.
Jesus is a divine person with full human nature. So in his humanity he enters time. He progresses in human knowledge and physical growth like any other human. He ate. He read. He progressed.

As the second person of the Trinity he and the Father are one in the Holy Spirit.

So it seems to me the faith teaches us that all are of one mind in their divine unity.

One problem we have here is, we are speaking of the unspeakable. We are applying human language and concepts to God, who is beyond complete understanding, and is at the same time reasonable for us, to the extent we can reason. He is merciful to us, in that he does not overwhelm us.

His magnitude and mystery and glory transcend everything we say and think about him. He is not limited to or contained by our understanding.

So one question I have is "what does it mean for God “to know” "?
Jesus saying that only the Father knows might not mean the Holy Spirit is ignorant or not unified with them. Maybe we just don’t understand the unique attributes of the divine persons.
For instance, it was not God the Father’s attribute to come down here and hang on the cross, as that unique person. Doesn’t mean he was not one with The Christ in his crucifixion.
It’s a mystery, and probably better that it remains that way. If we saw God as he is, I believe there is good evidence that we’d be burnt to a crisp in the light of his presence.
 
PNEUMA said:
No, its the other way around. The Jews thought Jesus was playing God, whereas in fact, God had given Jesus the authority to forgive sins and so on.
Click to expand...
And he is God. He is part of the Holy Trinity. Anyone claiming to have the authority to forgive sins ultimately put himself on God’s level.
 
PNEUMA said:
Because he’s a human, it’s as simple as that.
Click to expand...
This is your answer directly to the Title of this thread interweaving the title into the first post. Are you human? Can you save me? I am human. I cannot save me, let alone save you. Why follow Jesus Christ? If Jesus Christ is merely human, he could be you, he could be me. Can you Create? Can you talk to Moses? Can you talk to Abraham? Can nature listen to you as its Creator? Can you tell us what makes Jesus Christ different to you? What makes Jesus Christ different to me?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top