Why Jews don't need to be saved

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And guess where he got that little ditty from? šŸ˜‰
well both Jesus and Paul were Jews 😃 but do not forget that Pharisee used to teach that hating the other is permissible provided you don’t kill him.

So of course Jesus will explain God’s Pure commandmant. My point is that this is the Law according to God.
 
what rabbi? The ā€œgolden ruleā€ is certainly taken from Torah. IT is considered a main cornerstone of Judaism. No jewish rabbi that I know or would want to know would have said what you posted.
I should not have said today. It is a bit older than that. I ran across it during a search earlier today. It is in the Jerusalem Post. The rabbi calls for the deaths of all palestinian males over the age of 13 in Israel’s territory. He backs himself with
Mishne Torah, written by Maimonides
pqasb.pqarchiver.com/jpost/access/1129079051.html?dids=1129079051:1129079051&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Sep+13%2C+2006&author=MATTHEW+WAGNER&pub=Jerusalem+Post&edition=&startpage=06&desc=Yitzhar+rabbi+held+for+sedition%2C+incitement.+

As far as the Golden Rule- you miss the point. The Jewish Golden Rule says love your neighbors and your friends as yourself. Jesus fulfilled your golden rule when he added to love our enemy and do good to those who hate us. You love your friends only. We are called to love friend and foe. In Judaism, loving one’s enemy is merely stupid. Loving the ENEMY is our cornerstone and the fullness of the Golden Rule.
 
i have to go now. Valke2 i’d appreciate it if you give me the Jewish interpretaton to the passages i quoted in earlier posts.

God Bless you all
 
I should not have said today. It is a bit older than that. I ran across it during a search earlier today. It is in the Jerusalem Post. The rabbi calls for the deaths of all palestinian males over the age of 13 in Israel’s territory. He backs himself with
Mishne Torah, written by Maimonides
pqasb.pqarchiver.com/jpost/access/1129079051.html?dids=1129079051:1129079051&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Sep+13%2C+2006&author=MATTHEW+WAGNER&pub=Jerusalem+Post&edition=&startpage=06&desc=Yitzhar+rabbi+held+for+sedition%2C+incitement.+

As far as the Golden Rule- you miss the point. The Jewish Golden Rule says love your neighbors and your friends as yourself. Jesus fulfilled your golden rule when he said added to love our enemy and do good to those who hate us. You love your friends only. We are called to love friend and foe. In Judaism, loving one’s enemy is merely stupid. Loving the ENEMY is our cornerstone and the fullness of the Golden Rule.
Ok. So it was in 2002. And you forget to mention that Israeli law officers had him arrested for his comments, which were vewied as sedition. And you miss my point. YOu can’t ā€œfullfillā€ a commandment. A commandment is there to be obeyed eternally. And if you really want to look for concrete examples of when christians did not obey this rule (since you used an exmaple of Israel not obeying it…)
 
Ok. So it was in 2002. And you forget to mention that Israeli law officers had him arrested for his comments, which were vewied as sedition. And you miss my point. YOu can’t ā€œfullfillā€ a commandment. A commandment is there to be obeyed eternally. And if you really want to look for concrete examples of when christians did not obey this rule (since you used an exmaple of Israel not obeying it…)
Do you understand the example of good, better best? Yes a commandment is there to be obeyed eternally. But there are good better and best ways of obeying it. Very simple really. The Mosaic law is good, what most Christians do is better, and only the saints do it best. Simple. Like Jesus said- one should not kill. But then he improves on that commandment by telling us not to grow angry with our brother, then he perfects the commandment by stating we should love our enemy, then he fulfills the commandment by dying without resistance and offering his forgiveness of those who killed him. Do you see? good, better, perfect, fulfillment of holiness. Very simple. What you have is good. What we have is better. Your view of the commandment do not kill is limited to only the good. The war with Lebanon recently shows the view Jews have of enemies. Hardly Christlike, now is it?

As far as this poor rabbi goes, your religion, your Torahs, your interpretations of what God really wants of us, allowed him somehow to reach his conclusion. Yes, he was arrested, but nevertheless, it is a flaw in Judaic theology of God that allowed him to reason such a thing from the Torah in the first place. Understand with Catholic theology being the way it is, he would never have been able to reach the conclusion at all for he would not even have had a starting point. But there are holes in Jewish theology that allow for what he did.

Good, better, best and the complete perfection. We start as good, we work for better, we reach the best and pray for complete perfection. Which is why one of our greatest saints of theology has as the title of her book- The Way of Perfection. For Jews, the laws as interpreted at the time of Moses were the be all and the end all. For Christians, we realized a better understanding of how God wanted his laws observed. Simple really. So simple.
 
before i go, Jesus came to fulfill wht is written about Him in the Law, and to magnify it, restoring it to it’s original intent of Loving God and Loving your neighbor. This is the Law…eating and sleeping and all these rituals were not Jesus’ main concern regarding His followers for He cared about spirituality/heart…not eating pig will not make you a better person…cuz it will get outta your stomack…what is important is what goes out.
 
But the vast majority of Christians to not observe the commandments that were in place at the time of Jesus. ANd I hear over and over how he ā€œfullfilledā€ the commandments (although as a Jew I believe that would be impossible).
My own personal opinion on this matter is that Jesus fulfilled the Jewish identity for the Gentiles in order to allow those nations outside of Israel to enter more completely into the Jewish fold than previous Gentiles were ever able to do before.

In other words, he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing within his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.

The Christian Scriptures testify that his purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.
 
Do you understand the example of good, better best? Yes a commandment is there to be obeyed eternally. But there are good better and best ways of obeying it. Very simple really. The Mosaic law is good, what most Christians do is better, and only the saints do it best. Simple. Like Jesus said- one should not kill. But then he improves on that commandment by telling us not to grow angry with our brother, then he perfects the commandment by stating we should love our enemy, then he fulfills the commandment by dying without resistance and offering his forgiveness of those who killed him. Do you see? good, better, perfect, fulfillment of holiness. Very simple. What you have is good. What we have is better. Your view of the commandment do not kill is limited to only the good. The war with Lebanon recently shows the view Jews have of enemies. Hardly Christlike, now is it?

As far as this poor rabbi goes, your religion, your Torahs, your interpretations of what God really wants of us, allowed him somehow to reach his conclusion. Yes, he was arrested, but nevertheless, it is a flaw in Judaic theology of God that allowed him to reason such a thing from the Torah in the first place. Understand with Catholic theology being the way it is, he would never have been able to reach the conclusion at all for he would not even have had a starting point. But there are holes in Jewish theology that allow for what he did.

Good, better, best and the complete perfection. We start as good, we work for better, we reach the best and pray for complete perfection. Which is why one of our greatest saints of theology has as the title of her book- The Way of Perfection. For Jews, the laws as interpreted at the time of Moses were the be all and the end all. For Christians, we realized a better understanding of how God wanted his laws observed. Simple really. So simple.
I understand arrogance.
 
I understand arrogance.
Arrogance yes…
It is arrogance that allows a person to judge an enemy killeable. Then feel one is right with God.
Arrogance is that which allows one to hate and destroy another because one knows who is in a better condition with God.

Arrogance is that which allows the murder of innocents in order to kill the enemy.
Arrogance is that which considers non violent reactions to be a weakness.
Arrogance is that which considers it an affront to share a territory with an enemy.
Arrogance is that which lacks empathy and mercy.
Arrogance is that which allows a group to consider themselves perpetually a victim rather than victimisers.
Arrogance is that which allows no insult to pass unheeded, unrevenged.
Arrogance is feeling sorry for one’s self for lacking shoes and forgetting the man who has no feet. Arrogance.
And Christ came to defeat arrogance. We got lucky.
 
Arrogance yes…
It is arrogance that allows a person to judge an enemy killeable. Then feel one is right with God.
Arrogance is that which allows one to hate and destroy another because one knows who is in a better condition with God.

Arrogance is that which allows the murder of innocents in order to kill the enemy.
Arrogance is that which considers non violent reactions to be a weakness.
Arrogance is that which considers it an affront to share a territory with an enemy.
Arrogance is that which lacks empathy and mercy.
Arrogance is that which allows a group to consider themselves perpetually a victim rather than victimisers.
Arrogance is that which allows no insult to pass unheeded, unrevenged.
Arrogance is feeling sorry for one’s self for lacking shoes and forgetting the man who has no feet. Arrogance.
And Christ came to defeat arrogance. We got lucky.
Shana tova.
 
Arrogance yes…
It is arrogance that allows a person to judge an enemy killeable. Then feel one is right with God.
Arrogance is that which allows one to hate and destroy another because one knows who is in a better condition with God.

Arrogance is that which allows the murder of innocents in order to kill the enemy.
Arrogance is that which considers non violent reactions to be a weakness.
Arrogance is that which considers it an affront to share a territory with an enemy.
Arrogance is that which lacks empathy and mercy.
Arrogance is that which allows a group to consider themselves perpetually a victim rather than victimisers.
Arrogance is that which allows no insult to pass unheeded, unrevenged.
Arrogance is feeling sorry for one’s self for lacking shoes and forgetting the man who has no feet. Arrogance.
And Christ came to defeat arrogance. We got lucky./QUOTE

How much did Christians enjoy sharing Jerusalem duiring the crusades?

Was anyone ever killed in the name Jesus?

How many jews were murdered in the name of Jesus?

How many muslims were murdered in the name of Jesus?

How many Christians were murdered in the name of Jesus?

HOw many were tortured?

How many were incited to violence?

Do you really think you can take the moral high ground??
 
i don’t think it’s a matter of followers but teachings. Killing in the name of Jesus is a sin- considering ourselves better in the name of Jesus is a sin- being arrogant because Jesus saved us is a sin-

Between Lebanon and Israel, exchanging the prisoners is a big example : 10 if not 100 gentiles for 1 Jew. This is arrogance to us cuz Jesus taught we are equal.
 
i don’t think it’s a matter of followers but teachings. Killing in the name of Jesus is a sin- considering ourselves better in the name of Jesus is a sin- being arrogant because Jesus saved us is a sin-

Between Lebanon and Israel, exchanging the prisoners is a big example : 10 if not 100 gentiles for 1 Jew. This is arrogance to us cuz Jesus taught we are equal.
Now we are straying into politics. You may not know this, but several years ago, Israel exchanged 400 prisoners for one live person and some dead bodies. I don’t think you meant to suggest that Israel was arrogant because it agreed to such an exchange?? IMO, it is impossible to judge the morality of Israel (the national gov’t, not the religion), as being inferior to that of its enemies.
 
i don’t think it’s a matter of followers but teachings. Killing in the name of Jesus is a sin- considering ourselves better in the name of Jesus is a sin- being arrogant because Jesus saved us is a sin-

Between Lebanon and Israel, exchanging the prisoners is a big example : 10 if not 100 gentiles for 1 Jew. This is arrogance to us cuz Jesus taught we are equal.
As far as considering yourself better in the name of jesus being a sin, it seems to me that the last half a dozen posts or so have been trying to prove just that. And trying to do so my criticizing the followers of judaism, not judaism. Which is why I respondend with atrocities committed in the name of Jesus.
 
i don’t think it’s a matter of followers but teachings. Killing in the name of Jesus is a sin- considering ourselves better in the name of Jesus is a sin- being arrogant because Jesus saved us is a sin-

Between Lebanon and Israel, exchanging the prisoners is a big example : 10 if not 100 gentiles for 1 Jew. This is arrogance to us cuz Jesus taught we are equal.
One more thing. None of the criticisms that have been leveled against Jews here, even if they constitute sin, were sanctioned by Judaism. They were not the policy of the religion. The killing of Muslims, violence of the crusades, the incitement of hatred against Jews through passion plays, were all part of the ā€œpolicyā€ of Christainity, whether or not the Church actively sanctioned such behavior.
 
Now we are straying into politics. You may not know this, but several years ago, Israel exchanged 400 prisoners for one live person and some dead bodies. I don’t think you meant to suggest that Israel was arrogant because it agreed to such an exchange??

am not a scholar in Judaism…but isn’t it the general thought that a Jew’s life is worthiest than a genteel? i heard it from a Jew during the war…it’s not my invention.
 
As far as considering yourself better in the name of jesus being a sin, it seems to me that the last half a dozen posts or so have been trying to prove just that.

i don’t think so cuz we are not talking about a ā€œhumanā€ better than another ā€œhumanā€ because of Jesus cuz it’s a sin to judge and cause a Jew and genteel are both one in Jesus. Do you have this concept of equality? What some tried to say is that the Messiah’s Law is perfect and to be followed as the OT says…
And trying to do so my criticizing the followers of judaism, not judaism. Which is why I respondend with atrocities committed in the name of Jesus.
 
I guess the simplest way for me to address any ethical concerns about judaism is to say that there is not one single ethical/moral teaching that Jesus talks about which is not based on Jewish law. Jesus never had a problem with the Jewish ethical/moral teachings. His problem seems to have been that he saw the many laws surrounding ritual and instituted by the rabbis as being over emphasized at the expense of the moral/ethical teachings of the Torah.
 
One more thing. None of the criticisms that have been leveled against Jews here, even if they constitute sin, were sanctioned by Judaism

. to be frank, i don’t know what criticism has been labeled against Judaism here…maybe the posters will clarify or you can.
The killing of Muslims,
i know there are theological mistakes in the movie but i don’t think some Jews can be excluded from fact that Jesus was crucified…others can correct me…the movie is built from Biblical and historical info, not from prejudices against jews…after all Jesus forgave…
 
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