Why Marijuana in itself is NOT sinful

[Musician]

I may contribute further to this thread later. I wish however to address the comparison between cannabis, Rx drugs, tobacco, and alcohol. The general view of many of the people on this thread seems to be that cannabis is as bad, if not worse than these things. Here are the facts:
alcohol-435,000 deaths annually
tobacco-85,000 " "
Rx drugs- 32,000" " (and that’s legit use)
asprin and other anti-inflam. drugs-7,600" "
cannabis-0
*These numbers come from the Journal of American Medical Association.
Thank you, and godbless.

Thank you, Mojoe, for injecting reason into this argument. The fact is that there is nothing wrong with marijuana usage EXCEPT for the fact that it is against the federal law, for some inexplicable reason. God made everything good, and if smoking a little cannabis in a coffee bar in Amsterdam makes you feel fairly decent, why not?

 

[Pro_Domina]

You are looking things entirely on the human side. Not a single argument was with God as the premise.

Who says that marijuana is sinful because of the health effects?
I am not saying that it is healthy, let us suppose it is. It is still sinful.

OH BUT WHY?!

Because we have the right to use things according to the Order God established when He created the Universe. Everything is subject to that. I have the right to use by arm only in the degree that I am inline with that Order. I can’t use my hand to kill someone for no reason. I don’t have the right to sleep all day. According to your arguments, many things that are of no consequence to our health are not sinful simply because of that.
I don’t have the right to impure desires and the such. But according to you that is just a “political” thing.

See the biggest problem is that YOU are the criteria for everything. And not God. God is just a figure in your logic.

But I’ll tell you one thing. If drugs become legal, it is will precisely because that is one of the few things the “bankers” don’t have their hands on. But with them being legal or not, the diffusion of it is irreversible. The “communion” of Satan is everywhere.

It is one of those times the events of the Old Testament seem awfully similar.
Just that it is worst, because the world was baptized. And now…

 

[mojoe]

As before, I am going to just add to this thread a little at a time, as tackling the whole subject would just be too much to discuss in one post. First off, I should note that cannabis affects everyone a little differently, and use it for different reasons. For me, it is used to manage my chronic pain disorder, and even a meditation tool.
I have had Chronic migraines almost as long as I can remember, that often end up debilitating me for up to two days. These headaches become so intense it causes me to vomit… alot, which if your not familiar with this chain of events, continuous vomiting will make nearly every muscle in your body sore, because you tense your whole body, which leads to worse headaches. Prescription meds they gave me, usually made me nauseous, and sleep through classes. These pills were also expensive even with insurance, and also physically addictive. When I found cannabis, it helped to ease nausea, and help the headaches often before they reached critical mass and caused me to vomit. This had improved the quality of my life, and continues to do so. I’m hardly saying cannabis is a cure-all, proper diet, exercise, and proper stretching (more so in my case) have helped my body. I have prayed many times for guidance on this. I have even asked many priests in confession, I have only gotten one straight, answer, and that was that “anything in excess is a sin.” I find it very hard to believe that god would be so against me finding relief from pain.
Now as I said before about it affects everyone differently, its intoxicant affects, for me and many others are not strong. Many people can still hold intelligent conversations, read a book, and just about any of life’s daily activities. It does relax me, and connects me more easily with my inner dialogue. I often use this relaxing meditation time to talk to god, say the rosary, or just reflect. I am hardly alone on this aspect, I have spoke with many people on this subject. There is even Christians for cannabis organizations, who consider cannabis a sacrament. There is no such group for Catholics because unfortunately the pope continues to support the war on drugs.
I’m not saying that cannabis is gods greatest gift, and that there is no room for misuse. It is however one of gods many gifts, and if you take a look at humanity, we have misused many of gods gifts, that doesn’t make them any less of a gift.
“it is not what goes into a mans mouth which defiles, but rather that which comes out of it.” Mathew 15:11.
God bless,
Mojoe

 

[Pro_Domina]

There are many trials that could be relieved with committing a sin.

The hardships of practicing chastity are quite easily disposed of by giving in.

Smoking a blunt takes care of many things. But that does not make it good.

Now a doctor can prescribe something to you in the form of pills, and there it changes.

A doctor is giving you a controlled amount, with the authority that a doctor has to do so for a medical reason, where the pleasurable aspects are minimal in relation to a joint.

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

Although I am confident smoking pot is not a sin I wonder about buying it since it is a co-operation in evil because it supports crime? Am I right that this would be a sin? If it is, is it a venial or mortal?

It would be interesting to know how priests counselled their penitents during Prohibition days. There are many products which are remotely cooperating in crime or sin. If the only “crime” is marijuana consumption, and if marijuana consumption is not sinful it seems like there might be freedom.

That said, I am uncomfortable with marijuana. I accept your findings, but I have doubt. It would help if along with God giving wine to “cheer man’s heart”, something similar was recorded for reefer! If the Scriptures didn’t include definite places where alcohol is used beneficially, I would be uncomfortable with alcohol too. But God bless you. Be sensitive to the direction of the good God who loves you. When we have a patron saint of marijuana users, I’ll be on board. But other than you, I have never spoken to a user who took their Catholic faith seriously. Maybe its just cultural. But I need a positive precept before I could be brought on board to approve marijuana for use by Catholics, even if it was legalized by the government.

 

[mojoe]

There are many trials that could be relieved with committing a sin.

The hardships of practicing chastity are quite easily disposed of by giving in.

Smoking a blunt takes care of many things. But that does not make it good.

Now a doctor can prescribe something to you in the form of pills, and there it changes.

A doctor is giving you a controlled amount, with the authority that a doctor has to do so for a medical reason, where the pleasurable aspects are minimal in relation to a joint.

With all due respect, how is it a sin? No one gives a very clear answer. Is pleasure a sin? I take pleasure in a delicious home cooked meal. Should I avoid that? I need to eat, should I do so with minimal pleasure? I also hardly think that that chastity and pain management can really be used as comparison.
Now when it comes to prescription pills, I have explored that avenue with much dismay. Most have not worked well for me. Everyone’s body reacts a little different though. Doctors also used to prescribe heroin, use leaches, practice blood letting. You might also be interested to know that they even used to prescribe cannabis tinctures right up until the 1930s, until a monetarily motivated smear campaign began, and not mass addiction, or ill effects stopped its legit circulation.
Another aspect is that many doctors attend fancy conventions, and other perks courtesy of the pharm. companies. Now I’m not saying all doctors are seduced by that. The problem lies where this smear campaign has led to so much misinformation floating around that no doctor wants to touch it.
Now the last is the damage many prescription drugs can do. Oxycotin, and may other pain killers that are commonly prescribed to many, and people with conditions like me, are physically addictive, and have been known to kill. I have also seen it turn prescribed and illegal users into junkies. The withdrawls alone are cause for alarm, often worse than the condition it was meant to treat. Unfortunately it has also been responsible for many deaths. Overdoses, and adverse reactions to the drug. So far with cannabis, zero. Now i have had the experience of having tried this both drugs for my condition, and I can assure you that Oxycotin brings far more pleasure, and intoxication… then it makes me vomit.
I think you need to sit back and take and ask yourself why its a sin, and why it is illegal.

 

[Musician]

I feel strongly that marijuana should be legal, and here’s why: if it grows naturally, who are we to argue with God? Should we give up coffee too? Seriously, folks. Marijuana grows leaves, that, when they are dried and then smoked, make you feel pleasantly woozy. It isn’t like cocaine or heroin, that have to be refined and re-refined to use. You burn a bush of marijuana and stand there inhaling for a while, and you’re gonna feel something. But nothing like drinking a lot of alcohol, which is legal to do and extremely deadly.
And I disagree with the paucity of evidence that claims that marijuana is a gateway drug. I don’t believe that it is.
Anyway, my two cents are in.

 

[been2HipHop]

Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21)

Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. (Romans 13:1-2)

I indulged in marijuana too, I am actually trying to break all my bad habits. Today is my
first day and I hope tomorrow is yours.

 

[pzona]

Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. (Romans 13:1-2)

So it isn’t okay to question the authority of the states in which abortion is legal? This is one of the biggest problems I have with Christian doctrine. Just because someone in authority says something is legal or illegal, does not make it okay or not okay. But maybe that’s just my human rebellion speaking.

 

[John92]

Liquid,

I absolutely 100% understand where you’re coming from. I myself battled with marijuana for years. But you have to kill that temptation to rationalize your disobedience to the teachings of the Church.

I myself agree that marijuana is probably far less harmful than most devout Catholics believe, but that doesn’t change the fact that the Church teaches us that it is mortally sinful, and we are obligated to obey her as the Bride of Christ. It’s a sacrifice you must make: offer your sufferings to the Father. Sorry if this sounds harsh but the simple truth is that, as Catholics, we’re supposed to obey the Church, and by obeying the Church we obey Christ.

I have learned two ways in which it is bad though:

One: people like you will argue that Marijuana is not addictive. While it is true that it’s not physically addictive it can be VERY psychologically addictive to the point that users exhibit addict-type behavior. I’ve both witnessed this myself and gone through it: working hard to get money for more weed, spending tons of time acquiring it and using it and enjoying the “high”, etc. With marijuana, because it’s such a “gentle” drug, one can be stoned all the time without experiencing any really serious negative effects. That’s one of the things that makes it so dangerous: alcohol has built-in mechanisms to prevent overindulgence and to make being a drunk an unpleasant state, but marijuana has no such mechanisms.

Two: marijuana’s mental effects are much more dramatic than those of alcohol, even if you don’t notice them yourself. It can lead to some really bizarre (even disturbing) thinking, can cause really terrifying panic, and tends to make users withdraw into themselves.

So please understand man, I know where you’re coming from and I used to think exactly as you do. But please quit. Christ died for us in the most painful and humiliating way possible. We’re meant to “give up everything and follow him”; that includes the sticky-icky

Quitting is extremely hard because it’s so accepted and, depending on who you are, you might be exposed to it a lot. Remove yourselves from situations where it is, you don’t have to be preachy but just say “sorry I’m trying to be a good Catholic, don’t wanna smoke, I’m gonna head outside for a bit”, or whatever. Also the temptations to use become less and less the longer you go without it. There’s nothing wrong with using a substance to relax a bit and make you more sociable, and that substance is alcohol. Have a couple of glasses of wine with a friend. You might even prefer it to weed.

 

[CWBetts]

So it isn’t okay to question the authority of the states in which abortion is legal? This is one of the biggest problems I have with Christian doctrine. Just because someone in authority says something is legal or illegal, does not make it okay or not okay. But maybe that’s just my human rebellion speaking.

It is OK to question the authority of states where abortion is legal. Why? Abortion is in direct violation of the fifth commandment. We are not to kill. Humans are made in the image and likeness of God. Now smoking marijuana is not a moral directive. The government has a responsibility to protect the health and safety of its citizens. Should marijuana be illegal? I don’t know. The simple fact is that it is illegal, and the ban on marijuana is not in direct conflict to teachings of the Church, and therefore we must defer to legitimate authority of the government, which falls under the 4th commandment. This becomes clear if you look at the family unit as society in miniature (Father head of state, Mother is Prime Minister/Advisory council, children are subjects).

 

[been2HipHop]

So it isn’t okay to question the authority of the states in which abortion is legal? This is one of the biggest problems I have with Christian doctrine. Just because someone in authority says something is legal or illegal, does not make it okay or not okay. But maybe that’s just my human rebellion speaking.

Believe me if marijuana was legal I would be smoking it. Since it is not I am attempting to
quit myself. This is my second day going cold turkey. It just keeps getting tougher and tougher. I mean smoking cigarettes was an easier habit to break since I had marijuana, but
because I am trying to become a better Christian/Catholic/follower of Christ, I have nothing else to kill the habit of marijuana…well except for God’s help of course.

If it is legalized then I will start smoking it. Until that day arrives…I will be strong.

Thank you CWBetts for answering that question

 

[Timbothefiveth]

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1997/october/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19971011_salute_en.html
"Pope John Paul II:

The drug phenomenon is a particularly serious evil. Many young people and adults have died or will die as a result, while others find their personal capacities diminished. Young people resort to drugs for many reasons. At critical moments in their growth, chemical dependency is to be considered symptomatic of problems in life, of difficulty in finding a place in society, of a fear of the future and of an escape into an illusory, artificial life. Youth is a time of trial and questioning, of searching for meaning in life and of making future commitments. The increased selling and consumption of drugs show that we are in a world pressed for hope, lacking vigorous human and spiritual prospects. Hence many young people think that all behaviour is the same, and do not differentiate between good and evil or acquire a sense of moral limits.

 

[John92]

It is OK to question the authority of states where abortion is legal. Why? Abortion is in direct violation of the fifth commandment. We are not to kill. Humans are made in the image and likeness of God. Now smoking marijuana is not a moral directive. The government has a responsibility to protect the health and safety of its citizens. Should marijuana be illegal? I don’t know. The simple fact is that it is illegal, and the ban on marijuana is not in direct conflict to teachings of the Church, and therefore we must defer to legitimate authority of the government, which falls under the 4th commandment. This becomes clear if you look at the family unit as society in miniature (Father head of state, Mother is Prime Minister/Advisory council, children are subjects).

The prohibition of pot isn’t even about obeying the government: if it was I’d think it’s just a venial sin. It’s about obeying the Church: the Church’s magisterium has declared that smoking marijuana is a mortal sin.

 

[CWBetts]

The prohibition of pot isn’t even about obeying the government: if it was I’d think it’s just a venial sin. It’s about obeying the Church: the Church’s magisterium has declared that smoking marijuana is a mortal sin.

Its about obedience to the law. It is a grave offense, not a mortal sin. It would fall under the same category as alcohol or tobacco if legalized.

 

[PeterMuz]

As a long time marijuana smoker and recently converted catholic (3-4 years ago) I have come to the conclusion that marijuana is not in itself a sinful activity because I have not noticed even one side effect and will list numerous reasons why it has been beneficial to me.

The truth is long term use of marijuana does have side effects. Please see the following website. Marijuana does increase heart rate, lung problems etc. People who use it also experience memory problems. Maybe you haven’t noticed any side effects or maybe you did and forgot!

Also, most alcoholics say the same thing about alcohol. Some alcoholics know it has an effect on them but don’t feel its a problem. Your long explanation of why you think it should be morally acceptable sounds like you are trying really hard to justify something you know is wrong.

You also have to remember that you body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. If you cannot drive why smoking marijuana than why should it be legal?

 

[John92]

Its about obedience to the law. It is a grave offense, not a mortal sin. It would fall under the same category as alcohol or tobacco if legalized.

The Code of Canon Law specifically states that using drugs is a “grave sin” and Pope John Paul II said at least twice that marijuana falls under this and that it’s a mortal sin because it “severely impairs reasoning” (or something like that).

If disobeying the law on something is a grave offense ipso facto then I’m going to hell. I’m 17 and I love to have a beer with my dad on the front porch.

Seriously, is disobeying the law on anything a grave offense? Can you source that?! Will I seriously go to hell for drinking under the age of 21? Not even getting drunk or even “buzzed” - having one or two beers, when all I feel is mild relaxation if anything at all.

 

[John92]

Here’s one source for Pope John Paul II saying marijuana should NOT be legalized (so as you can see the fact that marijuana is a sin goes beyond the fact that it’s illegal): cannabisculture.com/v2/articles/2379.html

As for drugs falling under grave matter maybe that was in the catechism, I forget; anyway we know that by “drugs” they mean “substances taken for psychoactive effect besides alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine”. Here’s an example of the ordinary magisterium saying this: jointogether.org/news/headlines/inthenews/2008/catholic-church-lists-drug.html

But seriously . . . ANY violation of the government’s law is grave matter? I find that very hard to believe.

 

[CWBetts]

Here’s one source for Pope John Paul II saying marijuana should NOT be legalized (so as you can see the fact that marijuana is a sin goes beyond the fact that it’s illegal): cannabisculture.com/v2/articles/2379.html

As for drugs falling under grave matter maybe that was in the catechism, I forget; anyway we know that by “drugs” they mean “substances taken for psychoactive effect besides alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine”. Here’s an example of the ordinary magisterium saying this: jointogether.org/news/headlines/inthenews/2008/catholic-church-lists-drug.html

But seriously . . . ANY violation of the government’s law is grave matter? I find that very hard to believe.

Read up on the 4th commandment in the Catechism 2238-2246

 

[John92]

Read up on the 4th commandment in the Catechism 2238-2246

I have, I know about that, that obedience to government is part of the 4th commandment.

What I’m more confused about is grave matter.

I’ve heard it said like this: if you are breaking a commandment, it is grave matter, while if you’re doing something that’s not breaking a commandment but not helpful either (i.e. “immoderate laughter”), that’s a venial sin. But can’t ALL sins be seen as a violation of the ten commandments?

This sucks I’m not some spoiled brat with indulgent parents, I try to direct my actions towards loving my parents and siblings (and others depending on the situation, though I’m with family more often than not), I clean the house all the time without being asked, I do my schoolwork, I don’t ask my parents to buy me things and when they offer to I tell them not to (unless sometimes if it’s a book), I comfort people in the house when they’re having trouble, etc, I am a bit gluttonous with food, I think, but I’m working on that, and I’m going to hell because I like to have a beer?

Like I said, I’m just looking for more information. I understand the fourth commandment. What I don’t understand is Grave Matter, because I’ve seen and heard lots of priests (including, if I remember some things right, pre-VII priests) who definitely didn’t take such a vigorous definition of “grave matter” as you seem to. I don’t smoke pot because that would be directly disobeying the Church, but disobeying the government on a fairly minor piece of legislation, and most importantly with the consent of my parents, not going to some damned party and getting all messed up but having a beer with my dad because I enjoy the taste (and maybe I’ll get a very subtle feeling of relaxation) and like to sit on the front porch and talk about life . . .

If you can offer more proof that what I’m doing really is a mortal sin I’ll stop. Though I don’t want to. But then again I didn’t want to quit smoking weed either