Why Marijuana in itself is NOT sinful

[warpspeedpetey]

The immorality is not in the smoking, but in the refusal to submit to legitimate authority

oh, i understand the argument all right, but im not buying it. after all the legitimate authorities disagree by their particular geographic location, and the time period they are in. somehow i dont see the moral status of an activity being changed by imaginary lines of jurisdiction. while the strict argument could be made, its not sensical given the modern political landscape. all the legitimate authorities disagree, change their mind and then change it back. im not sure that such a strict interpretation is warranted in those circumstances.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Some would say that marijuana is

who would say such a thing? only the severly uninformed. mj is less dangerous than alcohol, it doesnt cause d.u.i., it doesnt make folks fight, beat their wife and kids, or commit crimes to get it.

 

[John92]

I will have to look into it. But now it is late

See the Catechism paragraph 2291. Drugs pretty obviously means psychoactive substances taken for something other than medicine excepting alcohol, caffeine, and tobacco (and of course abuse of any of these, especially alcohol and tobacco, would probably be grave matter).

Unfortunately, while I understand your stuff on grave matter, I’m addicted to smoking :\ My parents allow me to smoke (I’ve been cutting back on smoking and using more snuff now), but now, thanks to your info, I know that it’s grave matter. I don’t think I have the strength to quit it all at once but I’m going to start cutting back bit by bit. I’m already only having something like 3-4 cigs a day, I’ll cut that down to 2 (starting today), then 1, then 0.

And my dad has pretty bad hypertension so he’s going to quit smoking and I’ll go through it with him. Please pray for my dad’s health. I love him so much, he’s lapsed but he’s a very gentle, kind, honest man, and I have faith that God will lead him back to the Church.

 

[CWBetts]

See the Catechism paragraph 2291. Drugs pretty obviously means psychoactive substances taken for something other than medicine excepting alcohol, caffeine, and tobacco (and of course abuse of any of these, especially alcohol and tobacco, would probably be grave matter).

Unfortunately, while I understand your stuff on grave matter, I’m addicted to smoking :\ My parents allow me to smoke (I’ve been cutting back on smoking and using more snuff now), but now, thanks to your info, I know that it’s grave matter. I don’t think I have the strength to quit it all at once but I’m going to start cutting back bit by bit. I’m already only having something like 3-4 cigs a day, I’ll cut that down to 2 (starting today), then 1, then 0.

And my dad has pretty bad hypertension so he’s going to quit smoking and I’ll go through it with him. Please pray for my dad’s health. I love him so much, he’s lapsed but he’s a very gentle, kind, honest man, and I have faith that God will lead him back to the Church.

I will! But remember that even in cases of addictions, whether they are physical or psychological (I have one of my own) may decrease the culpability of a sin, but not its gravity. Getting wasted is a grave sin. If you are an alcoholic, it is still grave, but not mortal, because of your decreased capacity to control your actions, and you are not truly giving full consent of the will.

 

[mojoe]

As for disobeying the law being the sin, need I remind you all that with out breaking laws, there would be no Chirstians?

 

[stringbeanduck]

See the Catechism paragraph 2291. Drugs pretty obviously means psychoactive substances taken for something other than medicine excepting alcohol, caffeine, and tobacco (and of course abuse of any of these, especially alcohol and tobacco, would probably be grave matter).

Unfortunately, while I understand your stuff on grave matter, I’m addicted to smoking :\ My parents allow me to smoke (I’ve been cutting back on smoking and using more snuff now), but now, thanks to your info, I know that it’s grave matter. I don’t think I have the strength to quit it all at once but I’m going to start cutting back bit by bit. I’m already only having something like 3-4 cigs a day, I’ll cut that down to 2 (starting today), then 1, then 0.

And my dad has pretty bad hypertension so he’s going to quit smoking and I’ll go through it with him. Please pray for my dad’s health. I love him so much, he’s lapsed but he’s a very gentle, kind, honest man, and I have faith that God will lead him back to the Church.

1. 
   The use of tobacco and alcohol is** not **grave matter. They are morally neutral with the church.
   
   1. 
      Caffeine isn’t mentioned in the CCC
      
      1. 
         You’re not addicted to just tobacco, but that stuff that’s in cigarettes. With all due respect you are probably misinformed like many other smokers. Commercial cigarettes contain about 50% pure tobacco off the stalk, the rest is reconstituted tobacco, paper, reclaim, stems, ammonia, sugar, cocoa, and the list is way too long to go on as far as every little chemical that’s added. What happens is tobacco that is found on the floor, dust, old cigarettes from the shelves is poured into a big container. This container takes out every chemical and soluble. This includes everything from not cancerous material to higher carcinogenic. At this point the chemicals are added. Some are to increase addictiveness other are to smooth out the flavor. They take this solution and then spray it on a paper. Once it dries they shred it and there you have reconstituted tobacco. That makes up a little over a 1/3 of the cigarette. Another 1/5 is tobacco that is simply taken off the shelves and mixed paper, stems and co2. The air help expand the tobacco when packaged. Stems contain more nicotine FYI. The 1/2 of the cigarette is real tobacco, but still treated with many chemicals.
         
         I know this because I am tobacco farmer. Next year will be the first year I start doing it for profit maybe. Do you want to know what’s all in the cigarettes I’ve made: tobacco. Some people do like to use some cocoa based flavorings though. What you’re smoking isn’t really tobacco. I would equate it to something like heroin. Though it’s derived from a plant it’s not entirely organic. That is what I believe constitutes grave matter.
         
         Your dad is also in my prayers.

 

[mojoe]

I know this because I am tobacco farmer. Next year will be the first year I start doing it for profit maybe. Do you want to know what’s all in the cigarettes I’ve made: tobacco. Some people do like to use some cocoa based flavorings though. What you’re smoking isn’t really tobacco. I would equate it to something like heroin. Though it’s derived from a plant it’s not entirely organic. That is what I believe constitutes grave matter.

who are you going to be selling the tobacco to? Is it going to be made into reconstituted tobacco? Sorry to get off topic a little, but I’m curious.

 

[stringbeanduck]

who are you going to be selling the tobacco to? Is it going to be made into reconstituted tobacco? Sorry to get off topic a little, but I’m curious.

I belong to community of home growers who grow to their own tobacco to escape the high taxes and harmful substances. It’s becoming an increasingly popular trend among RYO smokers and even regular smokers. In addition to selling it out of the house I plan to sell it online to individuals. I would sell it as leaves though; shredding tobacco or cigarettes would be illegal for a number of reasons and that’s a law I don’t want to mess with. lol

 

[mojoe]

That is one instance where it isn’t so bad. I’m not so sure I would consider you a full blown tobacco farmer. The fact is that alcohol and tobacco (in its most common form) kill ghastly numbers of people every year, while cannabis doesn’t. Why are those two others morally neutral with the church?

 

[CWBetts]

As for disobeying the law being the sin, need I remind you all that with out breaking laws, there would be no Chirstians?

There is a difference between smoking a joint in defiance of the law, and receiving Communion or praying a Rosary in defiance of the law, don’t you think. In smoking a joint, you are breaking the law for sake of self. In the others you are breaking the law for ths sake of God. Straw man defeated.

 

[John92]

Hey CWBetts, the old Catholic Encyclopedia disagrees with you on the definition of mortal sin (and, as you probably know, it’s strictly orthodox):

The gravity of the matter is judged from the teaching of Scripture, the definitions of councils and popes, and also from reason. Those sins are judged to be mortal which contain in themselves some grave disorder in regard to God, our neighbour, ourselves, or society. Some sins admit of no lightness of matter, as for example, blasphemy, hatred of God; they are always mortal (ex toto genere suo), unless rendered venial by want of full advertence on the part of the intellect or full consent on the part of the will. Other sins admit lightness of matter: they are grave sins (ex genere suo) in as much as their matter in itself is sufficient to constitute a grave sin without the addition of any other matter, but is of such a nature that in a given case, owing to its smallness, the sin may be venial, e.g. theft.

Here’s a source: newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm#III

N.B.: Under the guidance of the Church, Scriptures, etc, we must also use Reason to judge whether something is mortal or venial. This is not “moral relativism”, so long as your Reason is under the Church. Also, while you’re right that any violation of the 10 commandments is a grave sin, as St. Thomas Aquinas taught, a grave sin carried out in a small degree is a venial sin, even though it transgresses the 10 commandments. They give theft as an example. So if I was some 10-year-old kid and I stole a cookie from the cookie-jar that’d probably be a venial sin, under this definition, while by your definition it would be a mortal sin (provided the kid understood that he was breaking a commandment and wanted to do it).

Of course that’s not to say that venial sin “isn’t that bad”; we have to watch venial sin too, but it won’t send us to hell on its own (though it can easily make us predisposed to commit mortal sins).

 

[stringbeanduck]

That is one instance where it isn’t so bad. I’m not so sure I would consider you a full blown** tobacco farmer**. The fact is that alcohol and tobacco (in its most common form) kill ghastly numbers of people every year, while cannabis doesn’t. Why are those two others morally neutral with the church?

Nope, I guess you are your right; just don’t underestimate my knowledge as one.

I can’t fully say why they are neutral. One possibility is that the tobacco and alcohol were very much excepted in the time in which 2290 of the CCC was writtten. I had a discussion with a parish priest about drugs and he told me the Catholic church doensn’t necessarily condemn every drug out in the world. That we, being part of the church need to use proper judgement in discerning whether certain drug causes only destruction to human life and health or if it can be used in moderation. Now even with the virtue of temperance pain killers have a high potential to be addictive, abused, and cause destruction to human life. Therefore, we must reason that in light 2291 of the CCC that this drug should not be used unless there is a medical reason. Both tobacco and alcohol with respect to temperance can be used in moderation.

 

[mojoe]

There is a difference between smoking a joint in defiance of the law, and receiving Communion or praying a Rosary in defiance of the law, don’t you think. In smoking a joint, you are breaking the law for sake of self. In the others you are breaking the law for ths sake of God. Straw man defeated.

I will wholly agree that there is a big difference. There is the case however of being a good christian, and speaking up when you see gross injustice in the world. The lives that have been destroyed by the criminal law should be defended. In some cases even, cannabis is considered a sacrament. I hardly find it fair to step on those customs, especially seeing as how, there is no harm to anyone else, and very minimal to themselves (worst case being a case of bronchitis). … Straw man defeated?..

 

[John92]

I will wholly agree that there is a big difference. There is the case however of being a good christian, and speaking up when you see gross injustice in the world. The lives that have been destroyed by the criminal law should be defended. In some cases even, cannabis is considered a sacrament. I hardly find it fair to step on those customs, especially seeing as how, there is no harm to anyone else, and very minimal to themselves (worst case being a case of bronchitis). … Straw man defeated?..

We can think what we want of cannabis being illegal - in other words, does it do more harm to send users to jail, or to legalize it (which would almost certainly cause a rise in usage in this country, inb4amsterdam). Pope John Paul II certainly opposed legalization, so I’m tempted to defer to his opinion.

Religions with cannabis as a sacrament? Sorry but I don’t respect them much. I hope I don’t sound mean (and I probably do but I don’t mean to), but it just seems like a bunch of hippies who want to worship their drug of choice.

Pot makes you feel great, better than great, unbelievably great, not all high and whacked-out but just in a damn good mood, and it has few side effects. That’s why it’s so dangerous. We’re not supposed to feel like that. It’s not natural. And, of course, even if you honestly can’t see any reason for the Church’s teaching on pot, we’re obligated to obey her. It’s a sacrifice to God, to quit using it, and your reward will be in Heaven.

 

[scapularkid8]

Haven’t read the entire thread.

I just want to say that I think it’s very interesting how we all have our different crosses. And one person’s cross might be absolutely nothing for someone else. For example, I have tried marijuana but I really didn’t think anything of it. Frankly, it was boring! I haven’t and don’t plan to ever do it again haha

However I do have my own crosses dealing with sexual sins and so I think it’s really very interesting how each of us are so different and created uniquely by God so that we have individual strengths and weaknesses.

 

[stringbeanduck]

We can think what we want of cannabis being illegal - in other words, does it do more harm to send users to jail, or to legalize it (which would almost certainly cause a rise in usage in this country, inb4amsterdam). Pope John Paul II certainly opposed legalization, so I’m tempted to defer to his opinion.

Religions with cannabis as a sacrament? Sorry but I don’t respect them much. I hope I don’t sound mean (and I probably do but I don’t mean to), but it just seems like a bunch of hippies who want to worship their drug of choice.

Pot makes you feel great, better than great, unbelievably great, not all high and whacked-out but just in a damn good mood, and it has few side effects. That’s why it’s so dangerous. ** We’re not supposed to feel like that.** It’s not natural. And, of course, even if you honestly can’t see any reason for the Church’s teaching on pot, we’re obligated to obey her. It’s a sacrifice to God, to quit using it, and your reward will be in Heaven.

I could say the same about coffee. Give me a couple of cups and I feel great, like I’m ready for a challenge, to get something done. I could also say the same with alcohol. Naturally I’m a bit collective and quiet, but give me a few OJ vodka and I feel like I can walk up anybody and talk to them as if they were my life long friend. Why is it okay to feel good on alcohol and caffeine, but not THC?

 

[John92]

I could say the same about coffee. Give me a couple of cups and I feel great, like I’m ready for a challenge, to get something done. I could also say the same with alcohol. Naturally I’m a bit collective and quiet, but give me a few OJ vodka and I feel like I can walk up anybody and talk to them as if they were my life long friend. Why is it okay to feel good on alcohol and caffeine, but not THC?

Because the Bride of Christ says so.

There’s something about the marijuana high that is displeasing to God, even if we can’t perceive it ourselves.

Have faith, stop trying to justify sin, that’s the path to destruction.

 

[stringbeanduck]

Because the Bride of Christ says so.

There’s something about the marijuana high that is displeasing to God, even if we can’t perceive it ourselves.

Have faith, stop trying to justify sin, that’s the path to destruction.

Where? Show me the official decree that declares specifically MJ use a sin.

 

[John92]

Where? Show me the official decree that declares specifically MJ use a sin.

I already gave you the catechism reference. Here it is online:

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm

It’s paragraph 2291. Marijuana would fall under “drugs”.

Here’s a reference that quotes Pope John Paul II as specifically telling the Italian government to keep marijuana illegal (even if you don’t necessarily agree with him on that, it’s clear proof that he believed it to be a grave sin):

cannabisculture.com/articles/2309.html [warning: anti-catholic]

ctrl-f your way to “john paul” or whatever, here’s the quote:

“Yet as recently as 1997 Pope John Paul II asked the Italian government to ban cannabis as a hard drug”

I know it’s hard to quit, believe me, but give it up for Christ. I’m trying to be kind here, I really do understand just how enjoyable it is and how harmless it seems, but isn’t God better than weed?

 

[CWBetts]

Is it just me, or does it seem like the book of Judges around here?