Why not ask Mary and the Saints for prayers?

  • Thread starter Thread starter aidanbradypop
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
EvangelCatholic said:
Luther refers to the blessed Virgin Mary as the “Queen of Heaven” since he believed she was assumed up into the heavenly hosts at her death. Lutherans also believe that Mary is “truly holy and pure” and some accept the Immaculate Conception of St Mary even though Roman Catholics didn’t finalize this actual doctrine until the 1800’s. BTW, Orthodox and Anglican Christians also leave room for a variety of positions on the Blessed Virgin.

Honestly, it is hard to conceive of the mother of Jesus was anything other than the most blessed Mother of God if one believes in our Lord’s Incarnation.

Lutheran churches in Europe and some in America have statues of our Lady with a crown upon her head as the Queen of Heaven.
Click to expand...
Do you know where these are? Have pictures?

I am wondering, if there are Lutherans who believe she is queen of heaven…why has this belief been lost to other Lutherans and protestants who deny anything to do with the BVM? 🤷
 
pablope said:
Do you know where these are? Have pictures?

I am wondering, if there are Lutherans who believe she is queen of heaven…why has this belief been lost to other Lutherans and protestants who deny anything to do with the BVM? 🤷
Click to expand...
Yes, is it possible to submit photos to this site? Otherwise there are Lutheran sites with photos and videos of statues of Mary.

I will provide links. Here is an ELCA parish outside Philly but the blessed Virgin statue doesn’t have a crown. facebook.com/Zion.Lutheran.Church.Bristol.Pa/photos_stream
 
Gailgirl said:
Responding to AidenBradyPop:

I am a convert (for many years) but not from any previous religious background. As mentioned, my views and convictions come from reading Scripture. Praying to anyone but God, Christ, or the Holy Spirit is an ‘uncomfortable’ issue with me, perhaps due to the Holy Spirit convicting me. Thus, I confine my prayers to the Godhead. If our Lord is seated at the right hand of the Father to intercede for the heirs of salvation (us), it seems fruitless (forgive me) to pray to any other. Jesus said there was no better person born than John the Baptist. Others who are noteworthy are mentioned in Heb 11. Yet, Jesus, the Apostles, and other writers of Holy Writ never mention praying to any of them, let alone any other departed believer, and this includes the mother of our Lord.
I realize this practice is a comfort to many of my brothers and sisters, but I don’t have this comfort. And, other than on this forum, I have not talked to/or read a Protestant’s view on this, but know many of their denominations evidently don’t pray to saints. I don’t know if their reasons coincide with mine or not.
Many years ago I talked at length to my priest about my feelings. He told me that prayer was vitally important to my relationship with God, and to continue to praise Him and cast my cares upon Him as I was doing. My relationship with, and dependence on Him, was what He desired most.
Thanks for asking. God bless.
Gail
Click to expand...
Hello again Gail,
Well, put. I would follow the counsel of your priest. The fact is, there is no scriptural requirement for us to pray to or through anyone but God. However, there is also nothing in scripturing telling us not to pray that way. Sooooo, we walk our personal journey according to the Spirit.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Yes, is it possible to submit photos to this site? Otherwise there are Lutheran sites with photos and videos of statues of Mary.
Click to expand...
If I remember correctly, you have to have more than a certain number of posts under your belt before you can post images.
 
aidanbradypop said:
Pretty much every ELCA parish here has no statues or anything related to The Blessed Mother. 🤷
Click to expand...
Lutherans in general in this country don’t have images of the Virgin Mary except in the oldest churches. Modern design means very stark chancels; in-fact, many Lutheran parishes in America don’t even have a prominent crucifix.
 
Here’s an interesting experience, for me anyway, regarding intercession. I frequently find myself overcome by sadness, depression and loneliness. I wondered if I was somehow experiencing a spiritual prayer thing on my 83 year old mother’s behalf. She has a history of those symptoms. We live across the country from one another, she lives in a little apartment attached to my sister’s house. Once a year I come out to spend a month to give my sister a break.

The other day, I am sitting here in the same room as mom and she blurts out, “I keep crying and calling out to you all the time.” hmmmm, I think I see a connection here. She also always improves when I respond in prayer. There is no vocal communication. When she says she calls out, she means out loud in the room when she is all alone and wishing I was there.

Just saying 🤷
 
Does this sound familiar to anyone?

…therefore I ask blessed Mary ever-Virgin,
all the Angels and Saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.

(part of the Penitential Act, Form A -The Confiteor)

They are alive in Christ!!
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Lutherans in general in this country don’t have images of the Virgin Mary except in the oldest churches. Modern design means very stark chancels; in-fact, many Lutheran parishes in America don’t even have a prominent crucifix.
Click to expand...
Yep…many are going to the empty cross. I have also noticed that the new Lutheran churches that are being built are steering away from having a saint name and going more in the direction of “Grace Lutheran” or etc.

The Lutherans here really try to widen the Tiber when it comes to faith.🤷
 
JonNC said:
Much to the lament of LCMS President Harrison:

youtube.com/watch?v=lizfznY63Yk

Jon
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link, Jon

I saw the artwork and statues in that church…truly beautiful…if it was not a Lutheran church, it could have been mistaken for a medievial Catholic church…😉

I share Pres. Harrison’s lament about what is happening to that chuch in Geneva, truly sad.

But what is happening in the Lutheran world…are new ones following the path taken by those in Geneva?
 
pablope said:
Thanks for the link, Jon

I saw the artwork and statues in that church…truly beautiful…if it was not a Lutheran church, it could have been mistaken for a medievial Catholic church…😉

I share Pres. Harrison’s lament about what is happening to that chuch in Geneva, truly sad.

But what is happening in the Lutheran world…are new ones following the path taken by those in Geneva?
Click to expand...
I think the head of the LCMS was referring to Calvinists at the time of the Reformation. Lutherans aren’t taking out images of the blessed Virgin but they are not putting in enough statues of Mary is what Harrison laments. Icons seem to be more favored than statues.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
I think the head of the LCMS was referring to Calvinists at the time of the Reformation. Lutherans aren’t taking out images of the blessed Virgin but they are not putting in enough statues of Mary is what Harrison laments. Icons seem to be more favored than statues.
Click to expand...
I think he was, in a pastoral way, encouraging American Lutherans to use more of both.
Icons and statues both can be used to proclaim the Gospel.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
I think he was, in a pastoral way, encouraging American Lutherans to use more of both.
Icons and statues both can be used to proclaim the Gospel.

Jon
Click to expand...
Art is a wonderful way to express the Gospel. Mel’s movie The Passion of Christ is a wonderful example of sharing the Gospel in art. Of course it had a little Hollywood mixed in, but many people were blessed by that movie. It is a family tradition to watch it each Lent.
 
There is nothing wrong with asking the Saints for prayers. Worshipping them, however, is idolatry.

Here is an example:
“O Mother of Perpetual Help, grant that I may ever invoke thy most powerful name, which is the safeguard of the living and the salvation of the dying. O Purest Mary, O Sweetest Mary, let thy name henceforth be ever on my lips. Delay not, O Blessed Lady, to help me whenever I call on thee, for, in all my needs, in all my temptations I shall never cease to call on thee, ever repeating thy sacred name, Mary, Mary.”

Utterly indistinguishable from divine worship.
 
Indifferently said:
There is nothing wrong with asking the Saints for prayers. Worshipping them, however, is idolatry.

Here is an example:
“O Mother of Perpetual Help, grant that I may ever invoke thy most powerful name, which is the safeguard of the living and the salvation of the dying. O Purest Mary, O Sweetest Mary, let thy name henceforth be ever on my lips. Delay not, O Blessed Lady, to help me whenever I call on thee, for, in all my needs, in all my temptations I shall never cease to call on thee, ever repeating thy sacred name, Mary, Mary.”

Utterly indistinguishable from divine worship.
Click to expand...
I would agree! Thankfully as Catholics we do not. 😉
 
aidanbradypop said:
I would agree! Thankfully as Catholics we do not. 😉
Click to expand...
Read the alleged “prayer” I quote.

There is a wide gulf between the modest intercession “pray for us” and the idolatry of popular devotions like:

“Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.”

Which I found on EWTN.

People never “intend” idolatry. But the proof is often in the pudding.
 
Indifferently said:
Read the alleged “prayer” I quote.

There is a wide gulf between the modest intercession “pray for us” and the idolatry of popular devotions like:

“Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.”

Which I found on EWTN.

People never “intend” idolatry. But the proof is often in the pudding.
Click to expand...
So as a member of the Church of England, you have never prayed the Anglican Rosary?

What about that prayer do you find as “worship” or against your beliefs?
 
Indifferently said:
Read the alleged “prayer” I quote.

There is a wide gulf between the modest intercession “pray for us” and the idolatry of popular devotions like:

“Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.”

Which I found on EWTN.

People never “intend” idolatry. But the proof is often in the pudding.
Click to expand...


Those are not Catholic priest and deacons 😉
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top