Why not ask Mary and the Saints for prayers?

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pablope said:
berk60;10823121:
Okay…but whose hermeneutics? Our own interpretation? Or do you use the oral instructions of those given such authority by the Apostles?

How do you think those Christians did it before there was a Bible? Before the protestants came on the scene and started claiming their own interpretations?

Should hermenuetics be done outside of the faith tradition that canonized and chose the Bible canon?

Here is 2thes2:

11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

And there is one way to prevent from being deceived and to prevent this coming delusion:

1John 4… 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

Look at what has happened to the world of protestantism who had discarded this instruction from John…breaking into several thousand denoms.
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It seems you cling to apostolic succession but look at the first church, its growth, doctrine, and practices, were recorded for us in the New Testament. Jesus, as well as His apostles, foretold that false teachers would arise, and indeed it is apparent from some of the New Testament epistles that these apostles had to fight against false teachers early on in the early church with doctrine that added on to salvation requirements. Having a pedigree of apostolic succession or being able to trace a church’s roots back to the “first church” is nowhere in Scripture given as a test for being the true church.

What is given is repeated comparisons between what false teachers teach and what the first church taught, as recorded in Scripture. Whether a church is the “true church” or not is determined by comparing its teachings and practices to that of the New Testament church, as recorded in Scripture.

For instance, in Acts 20:17-38, the Apostle Paul has an opportunity to talk to the church leaders in the large city of Ephesus one last time face to face. In that passage, he tells them that false teachers will not only come among them but will come FROM them (vv. 29-30). Paul does not set forth the teaching that they were to follow the “first” organized church as a safeguard for the truth. Rather, he commits them to the safekeeping of “God and to the word of His grace” (v. 32). Thus, truth could be determined by depending upon God and “the word of His grace” (i.e., Scripture, see John 10:35). This is why I choose to follow only the Bible and not traditions adding to scripture that were passed on as time went on. I believe it was referred to in an earlier post as doctrine development.

I’m just saying that this could be dangerous and not even noticed if there is a slight shift of the focus of glory shifting off of God and onto man. I don’t think we have the right to assign reverence to anyone but God and that’s what can happen by adhering to the traditions that have been passed down as the church evolves and changes.

This dependence upon the Word of God, rather than following certain individual “founders” is seen again in Galatians 1:8-9, in which Paul states, “But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.” Thus, the basis for determining truth from error is not based upon even WHO it is that is teaching it, “we or an angel from heaven,” but whether it is the same gospel that they had already received – and this gospel is recorded in Scripture.
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TexanKnight said:
When I was a child, I often did not go my father for requests. Often because he was not always available, but more often it was because it seemed if my mother asked him, he would readily say yes.

And if you look at the Old Testament Kings, the King’s Mother had a special position. One could petition the King through the King’s Mother.

That is how I feel about My Holy Mother Mary. I know I can go to my Heavenly Father, but how much more powerful is the request coming from The Blessed Mother? Just like my mother asking my father or the King’s Mother petitioning the King on behalf of the petitioner.

I LOVE that I have someone who can pray for me while I am also praying for me.

As to asking other Saints to pray for me…I guess if I can ask people on earth to pray for me, why can’t I ask the Saints to do the same?

We are so blessed to have the Saints and our Holy Mother praying for us!
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👍
 
aidanbradypop said:
So I cannot introduce you to Christ if you are a non believer? You do not believe tha God uses us all to be a witness to those who do not believe?
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I see that it says you are from the Fargo Diocese…Is that Fargo ND? Isn’t this where Deacon Troy has returned for his Ordination! If so…YOU GUYS ARE SO LUCKY!!! He was here with us for a few months and we just love him.
 
TexanKnight said:
When I was a child, I often did not go my father for requests. Often because he was not always available, but more often it was because it seemed if my mother asked him, he would readily say yes.

And if you look at the Old Testament Kings, the King’s Mother had a special position. One could petition the King through the King’s Mother.

That is how I feel about My Holy Mother Mary. I know I can go to my Heavenly Father, but how much more powerful is the request coming from The Blessed Mother? Just like my mother asking my father or the King’s Mother petitioning the King on behalf of the petitioner.

I LOVE that I have someone who can pray for me while I am also praying for me.

As to asking other Saints to pray for me…I guess if I can ask people on earth to pray for me, why can’t I ask the Saints to do the same?

We are so blessed to have the Saints and our Holy Mother praying for us!
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I was so blown away the first time I heard that several months ago. I checked it out for myself and sure enough, during the reign of Solomon, he had a throne brought in and set next to his throne for his mother, the queen mother. From that point on it became an official title.
 
StillCatholic said:
I was so blown away the first time I heard that several months ago. I checked it out for myself and sure enough, during the reign of Solomon, he had a throne brought in and set next to his throne for his mother, the queen mother. From that point on it became an official title.
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Helps it all make sense…doesn’t it?
 
StillCatholic said:
I was so blown away the first time I heard that several months ago. I checked it out for myself and sure enough, during the reign of Solomon, he had a throne brought in and set next to his throne for his mother, the queen mother. From that point on it became an official title.
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She also had her own budget, and her own office/authority. Asa deposed his own mother for her actions:

1 Kings 15:13
13 He also removed his mother Maacah from being queen mother, because she had made an abominable image for Asherah;

The Queen Mother only had authority through her son. Her royal crown was based in his, and could not be separated.

Jer 13:18

18 Say to the king and the queen mother:
“Take a lowly seat,
for your beautiful crown
has come down from your head.”

Does anyone imagine that Jesus’ mother in any way acts against the will of her Divine Son? Her eternal response is “do whatever He tells you”.
 
StillCatholic said:
I see that it says you are from the Fargo Diocese…Is that Fargo ND? Isn’t this where Deacon Troy has returned for his Ordination! If so…YOU GUYS ARE SO LUCKY!!! He was here with us for a few months and we just love him.
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Yes I am in Fargo, ND…Please pray for me lol. Our former Bishop, Bishop Aquila, is no in Colorado. I haven’t the chance to speak with Dcn Troy but I do know he is TALL. lol Since our seminary closed here, all of our seminarians go to Colorado usually. Thanks! lol
 
aidanbradypop said:
Yes I am in Fargo, ND…Please pray for me lol. Our former Bishop, Bishop Aquila, is no in Colorado. I haven’t the chance to speak with Dcn Troy but I do know he is TALL. lol Since our seminary closed here, all of our seminarians go to Colorado usually. Thanks! lol
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Oh! How funny and what a small world. Yes, we pray for our new Bishop Samuel. Our former bishop, Bishop Chaput was sent to the diocese of Philadelphia…we miss him very much but now turn our attention to supporting our new bishop, Bishop Samuel.

I was just out to the Philadelphia Diocese for a month last month and could already see the positive impact Bishop Chaput is having 👍
 
aidanbradypop said:
Yes I am in Fargo, ND…Please pray for me lol. Our former Bishop, Bishop Aquila, is no in Colorado. I haven’t the chance to speak with Dcn Troy but I do know he is TALL. lol Since our seminary closed here, all of our seminarians go to Colorado usually. Thanks! lol
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By the way…isn’t our former temp bishop out there with you guys? Bishop Conley? He is a very gentle and loving soul.
 
aidanbradypop said:
I had a conversation the other day on this topic so I thought I would present it to the forum. A Protestant friend of mine has prayer groups where they pray for others and ask for prayers in return.

I presented the question …If we can ask one another to pray for us, why can’t we ask the Mother of God and the Saints to do the same?

Her reply was that they are dead and do not pray for us and asking them to do so goes against Scripture.

Your thoughts?
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Aidan,

Tell your friend this, Abraham died and is “dead” and the rich man Lazarus was praying to Abraham from hell for water. So if a soul in hell, has the Knowledge to pray to Abraham, why does not your friend, who say he/she is a Christian.

“God is the God of the Living not the dead”. Amen So therefore all who have died can pray for us, and do pray for us whether we ask for it or not. Amen

Ufam Tobie
 
Just came across some interesting info. Was looking up the Lion of Judah, aka Liber, aka Dionysus/Bacchus. Anyway, ended up in the Serer Religion with the following:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serer_religion

**“For the ordinary Serers, they addressed their prayers to the pangool (the Serer ancestral spirits and saints) as they are the intermediaries between the living world and the divine. **An orthodox Serer must remain faithful to the ancestral spirits as the soul is sanctified as a result of the ancestors’ intercession between the living world and the divine.”

“There is no heaven or hell in the Serer religion. The immortality of the soul and reincarnation (ciiɗ in Serer[11]) is a strongly held belief in Serer religion. The pangool are canonised as holy saints, and will be called upon and venerated, and have the power to intercede between the living and the divine. Acceptance by the ancestors who have long departed and the ability to intercede with the divine is as close to heaven after one passes over. Rejection by the ancestors and becoming a lost and wondering soul is as close to hell in Serer Religion.[7][12]”

Perhaps in early Christianity the concession made to the polytheistic religions was the incorporation of saints as a ‘bridge’ of sorts. I still elect to pray to only the Trinity as it agrees with the NT.

Another Gee-whiz thingy:

“Dionysus is equated with both Bacchus and Liber (also Liber Pater). Liber (“the free one”) was a god of male fertility, wine, and growth, whose female counterpart was Libera. His festival was the Liberalia, celebrated on March 17, but in some myths the festival was also held on March 5.”

The History2 channel did a “Decoded” segment on the Statue of Liberty and its mysteries. The answers may be closer than they appear, eh? 🙂
 
Jeanne1184 said:
Just came across some interesting info. Was looking up the Lion of Judah, aka Liber, aka Dionysus/Bacchus. Anyway, ended up in the Serer Religion with the following:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serer_religion

**“For the ordinary Serers, they addressed their prayers to the pangool (the Serer ancestral spirits and saints) as they are the intermediaries between the living world and the divine. **An orthodox Serer must remain faithful to the ancestral spirits as the soul is sanctified as a result of the ancestors’ intercession between the living world and the divine.”

“There is no heaven or hell in the Serer religion. The immortality of the soul and reincarnation (ciiɗ in Serer[11]) is a strongly held belief in Serer religion. The pangool are canonised as holy saints, and will be called upon and venerated, and have the power to intercede between the living and the divine. Acceptance by the ancestors who have long departed and the ability to intercede with the divine is as close to heaven after one passes over. Rejection by the ancestors and becoming a lost and wondering soul is as close to hell in Serer Religion.[7][12]”

Perhaps in early Christianity the concession made to the polytheistic religions was the incorporation of saints as a ‘bridge’ of sorts. I still elect to pray to only the Trinity as it agrees with the NT.

Another Gee-whiz thingy:

“Dionysus is equated with both Bacchus and Liber (also Liber Pater). Liber (“the free one”) was a god of male fertility, wine, and growth, whose female counterpart was Libera. His festival was the Liberalia, celebrated on March 17, but in some myths the festival was also held on March 5.”

The History2 channel did a “Decoded” segment on the Statue of Liberty and its mysteries. The answers may be closer than they appear, eh? 🙂
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There are many similarities between Christianity/Judaism and the best understandings of God within other religions. These neither confirm nor affirm the doctrine of one true God and His will for His people. That stands alone in no need of proof for all of creation tells of His glory.
 
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