Why not speak out against Protestants?

[InLight247]

The Apostle Paul in 2 Cor 5:6-8 said that to be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord. He was speaking of God’s elect of course. So according to the Apostle Paul when on of God’s elect dies, he goes straight to heaven. Praise God.

The Holy Bible was written by more than 40 human authors, inspired by the Holy Spirit over a period of about 14 to 18 centuries, long before the Catholic church got started. According to 2 Tim 3:16-17 all of the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit. The word inspired in Greek is Theopneustos which means “God breathed”.

Trust in what God say’s through His word, The Bible.

God Bless,
Robert

**1.**The church Jesus instituted on Peter is the Catholic Church. Peter is our first bishop. Catholic church exists from 2000 years ago, from the very beginning of church history. If you take a trip to Italy, you will see the tomb of Peter is right inside the Catholic Church St. Peter Basilica of Rome. It is the Catholic Church under the anointing of the Holy Spirit decided which written books are included in the Bible.

2. II Cor 5:6-8 “Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.”

It never says “absent from body, present with the Lord”. It says we “prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.” It did not say immediately in heaven. That’s totally different. Read carefully for the original verses.

When we die we will immediately face the Lord to give him our life account. We are with the Lord when we face him and receive our personal judgment. This does not mean after the judgment we will directly get into heaven. For most of us, we first go to purgatory for purification.

Purgatory is not a place without God like hell. It is a hopeful place where we still have God’s light and glory shine upon us.

Only the pure can be with The Pure.

 

[saayra]

**1.**The church Jesus instituted on Peter is the Catholic Church. Peter is our first bishop. Catholic church exists from 2000 years ago, from the very beginning of church history. If you take a trip to Italy, you will see the tomb of Peter is right inside the Catholic Church St. Peter Basilica of Rome. It is the Catholic Church under the anointing of the Holy Spirit decided which written books are included in the Bible.

2. II Cor 5:6-8 “Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.”

It never says “absent from body, present with the Lord”. It says we “prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.” It did not say immediately in heaven. That’s totally different. Read carefully for the original verses.

When we die we will immediately face the Lord to give him our life account. We are with the Lord when we face him and receive our personal judgment. This does not mean after the judgment we will directly get into heaven. For most of us, we first go to purgatory for purification.

Purgatory is not a place without God like hell. It is a hopeful place where we still have God’s light and glory shine upon us.

Only the pure can be with The Pure.

Everything sounds correct until your last statement above. The idea that “only the pure can be with The Pure” is your conclusion as far as I can discern. Did our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who was our model for purity, keep himself separate from 'the impure"? Why did Jesus let the sinful woman wash his feet? Why did he invite himself to dinner at the home of Zacchaeus? Did he tell the criminal next to him on the cross that he could not be with him in paradise? If I were a non-Catholic reading your opinion I would think that some Roman Catholics believe that they were the only ones that God loves and that everyone else is destined to be excluded from His presence. Are you reaching out to Protestants and unbelievers in a way that makes them feel The Savior’s love and desire to bring them into the fullness of the faith?

 

[jonk]

Because its not very popular to say that protestants might be wrong (never mind bringing up the fact that they fall under the category of heretics).

So many Catholics today try very hard to be “accepting” and politicaly correct, and in some cases they end up bashing their own Church in the process.

We should all accept that Protestantism is wrong. But that does not mean that we can disrespect their faith, even if they disrespect ours. Jesus told us to turn the other cheek. We can say that we disagree and believe we’re right on an issue whereas they’re wrong - we are told to correct our brothers who are in error. But we must do so respectfully. We must try to understand our Protestant brethren. Some disagree on but a few theological issues. Others spew virulent hatred against Catholicism, many with sincere concern for the souls of Catholics, but in this case, that does not mean we can do the same.

We should also remember that most Protestants are right on the most important things. About the Trinity, about the Divinity of Jesus Christ, etc. Protestants are often wonderful Christians in spite of their flawed beliefs. We should praise them for what they’ve got right, and correct them when they’re wrong. And pray.

 

[InLight247]

Everything sounds correct until your last statement above. The idea that “only the pure can be with The Pure” is your conclusion as far as I can discern. Did our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who was our model for purity, keep himself separate from 'the impure"? Why did Jesus let the sinful woman wash his feet? Why did he invite himself to dinner at the home of Zacchaeus? Did he tell the criminal next to him on the cross that he could not be with him in paradise? If I were a non-Catholic reading your opinion I would think that some Roman Catholics believe that they were the only ones that God loves and that everyone else is destined to be excluded from His presence. Are you reaching out to Protestants and unbelievers in a way that makes them feel The Savior’s love and desire to bring them into the fullness of the faith?

I see your points. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Be assured I have no slightest intention to convey any idea that Catholics are the only ones God loves. That idea has never occurred to me and should not occur to anyone.

When I wrote the last statement of my previous post, I was actually thinking about the teaching of St. Teresa of Avila on contemplation. If to receive the infused prayer of higher level of contemplation – to have the transformation union with God in our prayer, requires the purification of our daily living to such degree, how much more purification we need for staying in the presence of God in eternity forever. That is where that statement coming from.

With that explained, let me go back to the topic.

God loves sinners. However, we are talking about spending eternity with Him in Heaven., not talking about our earthly life where we all are “work in process”.
Entering the kingdom for eternity, we have to be purified to stay in the presence of His Majesty forever. That’s the concept of purgatory.

 

[Robert902]

**1.**The church Jesus instituted on Peter is the Catholic Church. Peter is our first bishop. Catholic church exists from 2000 years ago, from the very beginning of church history. If you take a trip to Italy, you will see the tomb of Peter is right inside the Catholic Church St. Peter Basilica of Rome. It is the Catholic Church under the anointing of the Holy Spirit decided which written books are included in the Bible.

The Bible precedes the Catholic church. Please do your homework…

2. II Cor 5:6-8 “Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.”

It never says “absent from body, present with the Lord”. It says we “prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.” It did not say immediately in heaven. That’s totally different. Read carefully for the original verses.

I admit to shortening it up a bit. My point is that Paul indicates that it is a non-stop trip for God’s chosen. If you are absent from the body, you are present with the Lord…and Paul’s statement doesn’t allow for a stop in between.
Eph 1:14 “Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession to the praise of His glory.” In light of this, why would God need a place like purgatory?

When we die we will immediately face the Lord to give him our life account. We are with the Lord when we face him and receive our personal judgment. This does not mean after the judgment we will directly get into heaven. For most of us, we first go to purgatory for purification.

Purgatory is not a place without God like hell. It is a hopeful place where we still have God’s light and glory shine upon us.

Only the pure can be with The Pure.

 

[Robert902]

Inlight247,

Sorry about the message above, I’m still trying to figure out how to respond using quotes.

Robert902

 

[InLight247]

The Catholic Church is the Church Jesus instituted on Peter.
Peter is the first Bishop of Catholic Church.

In the year of 397, the Council of Carthage decided the canons of the New Testament and Old Testament.

Many books in today’s Bible existed before the Church. But it is the Church’s authority determined which written books become today’s Bible.

So, it is the Catholic Church gave us the Bible we are holding in our hands, though the books of the Bible might be written earlier than 2000 years ago.

This is plain history, black and white.

 

[InLight247]

Inlight247,

Sorry about the message above, I’m still trying to figure out how to respond using quotes.

Robert902

Robert:

Simply click the “quote” button on the lower right corner.
Then the quoted verses will appear in your work box.
You may shorten the quoted content by highlight the part you don’t want and press the delete key.

Then you type your message after the quote.

 

[Cath01]

I am pointing out faith alone brings a person salvation because works is like a filthy rag to God. It is of faith that we are saved not of works. Baptism (water baptism) has no power to cleanse sins away or give you salvation only the blood of Jesus Christ has the power!

When water is blessed in the name of Christ, He (His presence) is infused in that water.

PS: Find out WHAT community that letter was directed at (Faith alone). There is something called context. Historical documents need to be read within the right context.

Otherwise, the people 2000 years from now, might think that Red Fish Blue Fish by Dr. Seuss is a history book. You cannot ignore context.
Extreme, but that is about the size of it.

In short: That letter was written to a community that did good, but had little faith. I thinkit was one of Peter’s letters. He had to hammer it home that doing good is not enough. You have to have faith.

Leave it to literal comprehension, and poof, now showing love through good works is ruled out?

I know the Holy Spirit works in Protestant churches.
What good is it in the fight against evil, if you go to Church, recieve the Holy Spirit, then do not do anything about it with your actions?

That is exactly like saying I will love Jesus, but be selfish (keep my love to myself).

Please analyse context. This blazing contradiction is just one of many that confuses a marriage with selfish desire and satisfaction, with living as Christ did.

The moment that fighting between churches occurs, then evil wins. Fighting due to trying to prove YOU or I are right. That does nothing but feed ego and (which is 100% self centered).

Evil wins when we are self-centered.

There is so much more.

Please let us pray for peace, love and unity together, for the Church of ALL truth, not just some percentage of truth.

 

[saayra]

The Apostle Paul in 2 Cor 5:6-8 said that to be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord. He was speaking of God’s elect of course. So according to the Apostle Paul when on of God’s elect dies, he goes straight to heaven. Praise God.

Robert

Robert,
There was a time when I did not take Purgatory seriously. Then someone close died and I was certain that this person was going straight to hell. But God is God and I am not. In the weeks leading up to death and on the deathbed some interesting things happened which gave me pause to reflect. This person had what appeared to be a foretaste of heaven and some encounters with loved ones who had already died. If this person was headed for heaven there has to be a Purgatory.

 

[Robert902]

Robert,
There was a time when I did not take Purgatory seriously. Then someone close died and I was certain that this person was going straight to hell. But God is God and I am not. In the weeks leading up to death and on the deathbed some interesting things happened which gave me pause to reflect. This person had what appeared to be a foretaste of heaven and some encounters with loved ones who had already died. If this person was headed for heaven there has to be a Purgatory.

“In religion, peoples beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination.” Mark Twain.
1 Thes 5:21-22 confirms what Mark Twain was saying. So if we are to test all things, Paul must have meant to test those things using the Bible as the “standard”. What else could he have been talking about?
2 Peter 1:20 “Knowing this first that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” NKJV

So with all due respect, purgatory just doesn’t hold up under scrutiny. I find nothing in the Bible that indicates that there is a place other than heaven where God’s chosen go…

You see God chose us before the foundation of time. Our salvation was decided by God before the foundation of time. That’s the gospel, and there is nothing you or I can do to change that promise from God. Eph 1:4-5 “Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world that we should be Holy and without blame before Him in love. Having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself according to the good pleasure of His will.” NKJV
Why would God need to send His adopted children to a place to be purged. He died on the cross for that very reason. And on the cross He said “it is finished”. Payment for our sins was paid for in full on the cross. When we talk about a place where we go for further puring of our sins, we are insulting Jesus and saying to Him that His work on the cross wasn’t quite good enough for us to get into heaven. That’s why we can’t work our way to heaven. Salvation if a gift from God, not of works, lest any man boast. Praise God, I can’t earn it and I can’t lose it according to Eph 1:4-5.

God Bless,
Robert

 

[MrS]

So with all due respect, purgatory just doesn’t hold up under scrutiny. I find nothing in the Bible that indicates that there is a place other than heaven where God’s chosen go…

You see God chose us before the foundation of time. Our salvation was decided by God before the foundation of time. That’s the gospel, and there is nothing you or I can do to change that promise from God. Eph 1:4-5 “Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world that we should be Holy and without blame before Him in love. Having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself according to the good pleasure of His will.” NKJV
Why would God need to send His adopted children to a place to be purged. He died on the cross for that very reason. And on the cross He said “it is finished”. Payment for our sins was paid for in full on the cross. When we talk about a place where we go for further puring of our sins, we are insulting Jesus and saying to Him that His work on the cross wasn’t quite good enough for us to get into heaven. That’s why we can’t work our way to heaven. Salvation if a gift from God, not of works, lest any man boast. Praise God, I can’t earn it and I can’t lose it according to Eph 1:4-5.

God Bless,
Robert

And St Paul says
“Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh, I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, of which I became…” (Col 1:24)

How do you explain with your private interpretation what is meant here… what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions??

At the cross, what was finished was the appeasement of Christ to His Father… necessary so that the Father would again look with favor on those who are able to inherit the kingdom… but may also turn away and condemn themselves.

Christ re-opened the gates of heaven for us… He did not give us a free, no-holds-barred pass.

Revelations tells us that nothing - NOTHING - unclean will enter heaven. If you die in your sleep tonight, do you actually think that you are totally without any attachment to worldly things, desires, etc?? Any of those, every dot, every tittle, must be purged from you. Only total holiness will be “allowed”. or will be present in heaven.

You ought to thank God daily for His Mercy in that state of the soul called Purgatory.

By the way, the wages of sin is death, and murder, adultry etc are grounds of total condemnation. Now if those wages were to be eternity in hell…

and Jesus paid the price for us…

will He spend eternity in hell??

or wiill the temporal punishment due to the repentant sinner by a price the sinner has to pay… as by fire.

The concept of Purgatory is such great discussion material… it never ceases to amaze me how Protestants, and even some Catholics deny the necessity of being totally holy to get into heaven.

.

 

[MrS]

"f . Salvation if a gift from God, not of works, lest any man boast. Praise God, I can’t earn it and I can’t lose it according to Eph 1:4-5.

God Bless,
Robert

Wow, you are special… even St Paul asked for the prayers of the early Church that he may not lose his salvation…

somehow I don’t think you are “better” than him.

by the way … “should be” does not mean “will be”

 

[InLight247]

Robert:

Let’s take a close look at 1 Corinthians 3:11-15
“for no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely Jesus Christ.
If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each one’s** work**. If the work stands that someone build upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss, the person will be saved, but only as through fire. “

Please read carefully.

1. It is clearly said each one’s WORK will be tested, not faith, work! It clearly talks about the importance of work.
2. It clearly said “the person will be saved but only as through fire”.
   Fire both destroys and purifies. Paul can envision very harsh divine punishment, but Paul is optimistic about it – the one will not lose his salvation, but as through fire. Though it did not use the word “purgatory”, it is obvious a place of purification – as through fire.

Just because the word “purgatory” is not appearing in the Bible, it does not mean there is no purgatory.

Where can we find the word “trinity” in Bible?
Where can we find the word “Christmas” in Bible?
Where can we find the word “Easter” in Bible?
And, let me ask you this, if a baptized Christian, who firmly believes Jesus is the Son of God, firmly believes Jesus died for our sins and resurrected, but he murders, steals, commits adultary, would you say when he dies, he will immediately be with the Lord in heaven?

Remember Satan believes in God also. Satan has faith in God,
he believes God is God Almighty, and Jesus is son of God.

 

[saayra]

Robert:

Let’s take a close look at 1 Corinthians 3:11-15
“for no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely Jesus Christ.
If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each one’s** work**. If the work stands that someone build upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss, the person will be saved, but only as through fire. “

Please read carefully.

1. It is clearly said each one’s WORK will be tested, not faith, work! It clearly talks about the importance of work.
2. It clearly said “the person will be saved but only as through fire”.
   Fire both destroys and purifies. Paul can envision very harsh divine punishment, but Paul is optimistic about it – the one will not lose his salvation, but as through fire. Though it did not use the word “purgatory”, it is obvious a place of purification – as through fire.

Just because the word “purgatory” is not appearing in the Bible, it does not mean there is no purgatory.

Where can we find the word “trinity” in Bible?
Where can we find the word “Christmas” in Bible?
Where can we find the word “Easter” in Bible?
And, let me ask you this, if a baptized Christian, who firmly believes Jesus is the Son of God, firmly believes Jesus died for our sins and resurrected, but he murders, steals, commits adultary, would you say when he dies, he will immediately be with the Lord in heaven?

Remember Satan believes in God also. Satan has faith in God,
he believes God is God Almighty, and Jesus is son of God.

 

[Robert902]

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
We don’t die for our sins, Jesus did that for us. The Bible teaches that while we were in our sins, Jesus died for us. What a merciful God we serve.

Eph 1:14 “Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession to the praise of His glory.” God means what He says… Our salvation comes with a guarantee…and this guarantee does not depend on my performance, it depends on Jesus’ perfect performance on the cross. I don’t think God could have possibly made this any more lucid.

Eph 1:4-5 “Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love. Having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself according to the good pleasure of His will.” He even chose that we should be holy and blameless before Him in love. And this was all done before the foundation of the world. I just don’t understand why so many Christians think that their salvation must be earned, especially in light of so many passages that tell us otherwise.

John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
John 6:47 “Most assuredly I say to you he who believes in Me has eternal life.” That’s all Jesus told Nicodemus that was necessary to obtain eternal life. If you are born again, you have eternal life. This is not something I made up, it’s what Jesus told Nicodemus.

Romans 8:30 “Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called these He also justified and whom He justified, these He also glorified.” This so clearly proves that our salvation is from God alone. He did everything for us. How dare we be so arrogant that we think that we have something good to add to Jesus’ work on the cross! Shame on us! To God these works are as “filthy rags.”

Romans 8:33 “Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.” There it is again…justified by God…nothing about works.

Romans 8:29 “For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be first born among many brethren.” See…God even predestined the elect to be conformed to the image of His Son. Salvation is clearly the work and gift of God.

John 10:28 änd I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand."
John 10;29 “My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of my Fathers hand.” If I am one of God’s chosen, nothing, including my sins can take my salvation away. Like it or not, that’s what this passage says.

So, don’t get mad at me, I didn’t write any of the above scriptures. If it really bothers you that much, that you can’t earn your own salvation, take it up with God.
Gospel means good news. Be secure in your gift of salvation. It’s a gift from God, you can’t lose it, and no one can take it away from you. Your salvation is a gift from God, and it comes with a guarantee.

God Bless,
Robert

 

[InLight247]

Robert:

We need to read Bible carefully. Jesus died on the Cross so the veil was torn into half from top to bottom and mankind may stand in front of God once again. This salvation, came to us as a pure gift, is the admission to God’s kingdom. When you get admission into college, you still need to work for graduation. When we get free admission to God’s kingdom, we still need to work for holiness. We are talking about working toward holiness, to be more like Christ.

When we talk about purgatory, we are talking about a place on our way to heaven. People in purgatory are bound to heaven. Nobody ever said those people in purgatory will lose their salvation.

We can endlessly quote Bible verses but please answer my questions in my previous post # 153.
Nobody is mad at you. I put “work” in bold red just to emphasize what the Bible says.

 

[djamu]

I’m a protestant and never heard of protestants calling catholics liars.

 

[MrS]

I’m a protestant and never heard of protestants calling catholics liars.

maybe not in so many words…

But I have heard things like:

“Would you rather hear the gospel of the Catholic Church, OR the Gospel of Jesus Christ?”

" Your beliefs will take you to hell"

“Catholics can not be saved… they must leave their beliefs (lies) and start to love the Lord.”

etc.

However, these lies have been around since the early days of the Church… and The Catholic Church survives in spite of them and in spite of heresies bred by some even in the Church.

 

[mikew262]

I’m a protestant and never heard of protestants calling catholics liars.

Check out the Baptist forum.