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John666
Guest
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Contarini
Guest
Since God in His wisdom chose not to make us robots, I think you have an uphill battle on this one
Edwin
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John666
Guest
Hey Edwin,
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All I was saying, referring to your, “anti” this or that “growing up” in your post, is that, --our feelings can be wrong.
Right on. Thanks be to God.
If you are saying, “one can not know Truth”, you have the uphill battleI think you have an uphill battle on this one
Edwin
.All I was saying, referring to your, “anti” this or that “growing up” in your post, is that, --our feelings can be wrong.
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happygal
Guest
If you were Baptized in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, you were cleansed of original sin. But you were not given the Gifts of the Holy Spirit which are conferred through the Sacrament of Confirmation by a Bishop.
Caesar, i believe if you make this statement, be sure that you are guided by Holy Spirit to make such allegation. Even your Pope who eat solid food does not make such comments!!!Thus charity please…!!!
Also, God does not “show Himself at other churches”, for there is One True Church- the Catholic Church. All other “churches” are but schismatic sects of the Catholic Church that teach heresies in varying degrees.
**Young man, am i seeing something wrong here?? how do you know God never show himself at other church?? You witness God descend into Catholic Church and tell you personally that he will only show himself at a CC or have you being to a protestant church standing there waiting for God to show himself ?? huh??.. have i miss something here!!! I being to a CC for a couple of time, and never before i see God showing himself up…and i believe if God really show himself at CC, i will sure to see the entire Catholic congregration rushing forward and trying to embrace God. I believe you’re talking about the presence of God, then what makes you think God’s presence is not in other church!! If you really have Holy Spirit in you, i wonder why you speak this way, coz when Holy Spirit manifest out from you, you speaks words of wisdom and knowledge that no believers will find your remarks alittle unpolish. I am a cradle Christian thus i am not as super solid as you, but somehow your remark just doesn’t seem to be polish at any level.**
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MrS
Guest
Happygal
You should realize that our friend Caesar is young, and very zealous… the latter a good trait, the former perhaps an obstacle to the zeal.
He is committed to the faith, no doubt, but like all of us, is subject to both mistakes and ignorance…please cut him some slack, and do not think that he is the very best source here at Catholic Answers… nor am I
Young man, am i seeing something wrong here?? how do you know God never show himself at other church?? You witness God descend into Catholic Church and tell you personally that he will only show himself at a CC or have you being to a protestant church standing there waiting for God to show himself ?? huh??.. have i miss something here!!! I being to a CC for a couple of time, and never before i see God showing himself up…and i believe if God really show himself at CC, i will sure to see the entire Catholic congregration rushing forward and trying to embrace God
As a protestant, perhaps you have little or no knowledge of what the Catholics call the Real Presence. Just as God choose to come to us as a fragile baby, dependant on others for His very survival… so too He comes to us in the Eucharist… even more fragile and totally in love with us…
So, yes, God does show Himself to us.
Whether we see Him or not is up to Him… He opens eyes in His time, not ours. He instills the grace to believe in His time, not ours.
And God, Who cannot be separated from His Son nor the Holy Spirit will forever act as Trinity. In the protestant communities you may see a witness to His presence… the fruits of His graces… perhaps. But those fruits will be His choice… and will be to the individual, not the faith community.
God desires One Faith, One Lord, One Baptism… and not multiple, devisive groups who have separated from the One Church He founded…
So in the Eucharist, the fragile Real Presence of the Lord, we should be comforted and be not afraid.
.
You should realize that our friend Caesar is young, and very zealous… the latter a good trait, the former perhaps an obstacle to the zeal.
He is committed to the faith, no doubt, but like all of us, is subject to both mistakes and ignorance…please cut him some slack, and do not think that he is the very best source here at Catholic Answers… nor am I
Young man, am i seeing something wrong here?? how do you know God never show himself at other church?? You witness God descend into Catholic Church and tell you personally that he will only show himself at a CC or have you being to a protestant church standing there waiting for God to show himself ?? huh??.. have i miss something here!!! I being to a CC for a couple of time, and never before i see God showing himself up…and i believe if God really show himself at CC, i will sure to see the entire Catholic congregration rushing forward and trying to embrace God
As a protestant, perhaps you have little or no knowledge of what the Catholics call the Real Presence. Just as God choose to come to us as a fragile baby, dependant on others for His very survival… so too He comes to us in the Eucharist… even more fragile and totally in love with us…
So, yes, God does show Himself to us.
Whether we see Him or not is up to Him… He opens eyes in His time, not ours. He instills the grace to believe in His time, not ours.
And God, Who cannot be separated from His Son nor the Holy Spirit will forever act as Trinity. In the protestant communities you may see a witness to His presence… the fruits of His graces… perhaps. But those fruits will be His choice… and will be to the individual, not the faith community.
God desires One Faith, One Lord, One Baptism… and not multiple, devisive groups who have separated from the One Church He founded…
So in the Eucharist, the fragile Real Presence of the Lord, we should be comforted and be not afraid.
.
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happygal
Guest
Happygal
You should realize that our friend Caesar is young, and very zealous… the latter a good trait, the former perhaps an obstacle to the zeal.
**Hi MrS
Yup i understand too, but no worry, coz i understand where he is coming from, just that his way of putting it, were so strange and awkards to me.**
He is committed to the faith, no doubt, but like all of us, is subject to both mistakes and ignorance…please cut him some slack, and do not think that he is the very best source here at Catholic Answers… nor am I
Yup fully understood and no grudges for that, coz me too aim perfect either
Young man, am i seeing something wrong here?? how do you know God never show himself at other church?? You witness God descend into Catholic Church and tell you personally that he will only show himself at a CC or have you being to a protestant church standing there waiting for God to show himself ?? huh??.. have i miss something here!!! I being to a CC for a couple of time, and never before i see God showing himself up…and i believe if God really show himself at CC, i will sure to see the entire Catholic congregration rushing forward and trying to embrace God
As a protestant, perhaps you have little or no knowledge of what the Catholics call the Real Presence. Just as God choose to come to us as a fragile baby, dependant on others for His very survival… so too He comes to us in the Eucharist… even more fragile and totally in love with us…
That i understand as what Eucharist meant for the Catholic, me too believe in the real presence, althought you might claimed that it is not 100%. The body and blood of Christ needs are together with Holy Spirit (as one) thus we must know how to be connected to it!!
So, yes, God does show Himself to us.
Whether we see Him or not is up to Him… He opens eyes in His time, not ours. He instills the grace to believe in His time, not ours.
And God, Who cannot be separated from His Son nor the Holy Spirit will forever act as Trinity. In the protestant communities you may see a witness to His presence… the fruits of His graces… perhaps. But those fruits will be His choice… and will be to the individual, not the faith community.
When we pray, we feel and get connected to Holy Spirit thus we don’t see presence!!! Fruits needs to be develop with the help of Holy Spirit. All Christ Believers who are move in Spirit will have the common fruits. Fruits are given to us by God’s choice through Holy Spirit’s help but it is our choice if we wanted to develop those fruits anot…
God desires One Faith, One Lord, One Baptism… and not multiple, devisive groups who have separated from the One Church He founded…
Of course God desire One Faith, One Lord, One Baptism, althought the Catholic will not accept the fact that they are other believers who believe in One Faith, Lord, Baptism outside the CC, becoz throughout history, the CC have taught that this is not correct of breaking away from the church…blar…blar…and it shall and will never change the pple mindset in future either, but God work in a way which no words can explain why thing have happened .
Of course pple can always say, yup satan was in command…blar…blar… was not a surprise to me, coz when thing does not flow into the original way…what else can pple said beside Satan was in command right…If the entire Catholic congregration have being praying for the last few hundreds year for unity of all God’s churches, then i wonder why all those prayers have not be answered?? So what does it spell here, either previously the prayer were not powerful enough or Satan was just too powerful to be melt down by all those prayers!!! You see where i’m coming from!!! Thus instead of proclaiming this and that…the best is to focus on things that God’s really desire us to do. Win the non believers and not win the believers first!!
So in the Eucharist, the fragile Real Presence of the Lord, we should be comforted and be not afraid.
Yes we should embrace the communion and not afraid, 100% true and i agree with that
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Genesis315
Guest
Feelings can be deceptive. Mormons get that warm feeling, Hindus feel good, and so do Buddhists. But they are all false religions. The imagination can make up feelings and even locutions–the devil can also give you these feelings. Our faith must not be based on feelings.
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happygal
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Genesis, i do agree with you , feeling at time can be deceptive, but once you lead a holy life with Holy Spirit dwelling in you, you will know whether it is a Godly feeling or an Evil feeling. I’m 100% sure you will know, coz you won’t even have doubts about feeling being deceptive…Holy Spirit is more powerful than Satan.
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water
Guest
I would say don’t rely soly on your feeling that Holy Spirit is guiding you. The best thing is to confirm whatever your feeling is with a Spiritual Director, a group, etc… Quite many people have based on their feeling and that was how they are lead to deceptive.
When Jesus asked two disciples to go out - there was a reason for being two of them - spirtiually supporting each other.
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mark_a
Guest
Some of the Church’s greatest theologians, apologists, and ministers have been converts. Let God work in his own way.
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mikew262
Guest
Good post! Despite what other posters are saying here, it’s my belief (and the Church’s as you’ve pointed out) that Christ is present at any church or gathering that worship and believe in him. In fact, I believe he even said something to that effect.
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happygal
Guest
**Hi Water
That is why i am saying we cannot rely solely on our own feeling, becoz our feeling are not 100% correct. What makes your Pope so holy?? Who gives him the healing power, discerning ability against spirit…etc…etc…it is none others then Holy Spirit. Don’t tell me your Pope who is the holiest of all still needs confirmation from other deacons, to confirm his doing are manifestation of Holy Spirit!!!
Holy people have the strongest ability in discerning spirit.
,but if we have doubt that Holy Spirit dwell in you, then of course we are walking a Thomas faith. Why, 1st of all our faith have put us to ponder first , check and ensure if we are in the correct move, if yes…Praise the Lord, Holy Spirit manifest out, if no, oh no Satan is doing his work…
So my question is, how do you know Holy Spirit lives in you when you don’t even know what Holy Spirit can do?? How do you feel Holy Spirit are connected to you when you don’t even know how to feel for his presence and get your spirit connect to him??
Holy Spirit is not just a spirit that live in you and do nothing!!! He is very powerful, miracle healing are via Holy Spirit not human!!! If believers don’t believes in miracle healing, then they don’t believe in Holy Spirit.
Understanding holy spirit is not by simply through words can explain or when everyone’s feeling are at the same path, you are correct and not derail, if that’s the case we don’t even have to spend our entire life learning from God!!! Human are spirit being, Holy Spirit needs to be connected to our Spirit to perform his miracle…just like the communion of the body and blood of Jesus Christ, it is together not separated**
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Caesar
Guest
This is a difficult thing, since it does get into the whole issue over the will of God in the world, the place of sin and virtue in the Divine plan, actions and consequences, ect. ect.
It can be said that God is active in the protestant denominations because God is active everywhere and in everything. As the perfect Creator, His Creation is perefect, so no matter what mistakes we as humans make, those mistakes and failings cannot damage the God’s design in such a way that the Design fails in it’s purpose and function. Every sin therefore only damages the individual (who has been given freedom of will), not the entirety of Creation.
So, in saying that God works through the protestant sects, we can say that it is the truths of the teachings of Christ that protestants possess (yet I wish to make it clear that only the Catholic Church can possess the fullness of the teachings of Our Lord) through which God works, not through the errors which protestants possess.
For example, if a protestant group recognizes the right to life of an unborn child and works to stop the crime of abortion, then God the Holy Spirit is working through that protestant group. If however a protestant teaches that the Real Presence does not exist in the Eucharist or that the Catholic Church is the anti-Christ (and as we know very well there are many of the fundamentalist persuasion who will say this), then we can say the the Holy Spirit is not at work here (or, we can perhaps say that God is working through the error of others- perhaps it is rabid anti-Catholicism that might make a protestant actualy look into the Church and thus discover quite the opposite and convert).
It can be said that God is active in the protestant denominations because God is active everywhere and in everything. As the perfect Creator, His Creation is perefect, so no matter what mistakes we as humans make, those mistakes and failings cannot damage the God’s design in such a way that the Design fails in it’s purpose and function. Every sin therefore only damages the individual (who has been given freedom of will), not the entirety of Creation.
So, in saying that God works through the protestant sects, we can say that it is the truths of the teachings of Christ that protestants possess (yet I wish to make it clear that only the Catholic Church can possess the fullness of the teachings of Our Lord) through which God works, not through the errors which protestants possess.
For example, if a protestant group recognizes the right to life of an unborn child and works to stop the crime of abortion, then God the Holy Spirit is working through that protestant group. If however a protestant teaches that the Real Presence does not exist in the Eucharist or that the Catholic Church is the anti-Christ (and as we know very well there are many of the fundamentalist persuasion who will say this), then we can say the the Holy Spirit is not at work here (or, we can perhaps say that God is working through the error of others- perhaps it is rabid anti-Catholicism that might make a protestant actualy look into the Church and thus discover quite the opposite and convert).
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Caesar
Guest
Anyway, I suppose my point in my above post is that God can and does work through the protestant sects, just as God can and does work through everything, perhaps simply because everything in Creation happen through the will of God. That being said, I do believe that there is a differance in how God works through the protestant sects in comparision to how God works through the Church, and ultimate purpose.
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prodigal-sun
Guest
The greatest thing you can do for anyone person is to pray for them. You personally can not convert anyone to the true church! Only the Holy Spirit can. Our duty as a christian is pray for our brothers & sisters. I believe a heart felt pray for the deliverance of a soul is more important than pulling that same person out of quicksand. So for me instead of confronting and proslytyzing to them I pray, it is much more effective
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mikew262
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Very good. You’re starting to come around!! God works through all of us, whether we be Catholic or Protestant. He won’t abandon any of us (IMO) as long as we hold true to certain truths, that the majority of Christian denominations hold too.
I realize I’m probably adding more than you intended, and you may not agree, but I do like the tone of your last couple of posts.
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ALLFORHIM
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Caesar
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The idea that I am trying to express here is that even error contributes to the ultimate design of Creation. An example could be the Protestant Reformation which, while disastrous for the Church and the cause of numerous wars (the number of causualties of which would not be exceeded until the First World War), paved the way for the Council of Trent and the Catholic Reformation, which worked towards purifying the Church from the corruption and immorality that caused the Protestant Revolt in the first place.Very good. You’re starting to come around!! God works through all of us, whether we be Catholic or Protestant. He won’t abandon any of us (IMO) as long as we hold true to certain truths, that the majority of Christian denominations hold too.
I realize I’m probably adding more than you intended, and you may not agree, but I do like the tone of your last couple of posts.
As we can see in the Book of Job, God even uses Satan for His purposes- in this case, to test the faith of Job.
And yes, God does work through the truths contained in protestantism as well as the errors.
I mean that the ultimate purpose of the Catholic Church is differant then that of the protestant sects.
It is an unfortunate failure of protestantism that it neglects to realize the true nature of the Church.
"Christians of the first centuries said, “The world was created for the sake of the Church” " (CCC 760)
At the end of time will be the final triumph of the Church when it comes to a glorious completion with this world. It is this final triumph of the Church that will be the final triumph of Christ. The world in the Old Testament prepared for the mission of the Church- the mission of Our Lord. The New Testament (the New Covenant of which we are now part) is working to prepare for this glorious victory of the Church. No doubt this will include the unity of Christianity in the Catholic Church, when protestantism will be purified of it’s errors and will no longer have any reason to exist as separate entity from the Church.
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ALLFORHIM
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Caesar
Guest
Just to be a little more concise- God works through protestantism by using it as a means to lead people to the Church and to purify protestantism from error so that it might someday be reunited with the Church. God works through the Catholic Church to save souls and bring it to that glorious completion at the end of time, which will be the triumph of Christ.Hi,
Thank you for explaining
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