Why not speak out against Protestants?

[guanophore]

Eph 2:20
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

This verse affirms that the church is "built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ himself as the “chief cornerstone.” Two things are clear from this: First, all the apostles not just Peter are the foundation of the church; second, the only one who was given a unique or prominant place was Jesus Christ, the “cheif-cornerstone”. Christ

The church was never founded upon Peter.

Ok. Sounds like you have your mind made up. Will you mind if some of us see it differently?

 

[DB_AND_ALI]

I am old enough (over 70) to remember the relationships between protestants and Catholics well before Vatican II. They were often non-existent. World War II came along and then Korea. Protestants and Catholics shared foxholes,barracks, and danger. We learned there were real people outside of our self imposed ghettos. It got very hard to continue to treat each other as some form of sub-human or vermin. One may blame it all on political correctness, but I think that most of us have learned that we have more in common than we have in opposition. Want to defend your Faith one- on- one, do it, but do so respectfully. Protestants do not consider converting when Catholics treat them like some sort of religous sub-human.

My father also fought in ww2 and he said the same thing…they were all christians united against a common enemy. Today my father leads by example and refuses to condemn any other denomination/faith [he is 88 years old !]. Peace to you and your family…from sunny south africa !

 

[7Jesus7saves]

im a protestant and i was wondering like what is there to speak out about us becasue i mean there are hypocrites and those who are one person in church and entirely different out of church but you can find that in Catholicism too also what do you find wrong with Protestants? in general. im not talking individual case but whats wrong with them as a whole? i try 2 read the Bible every day. i know ive sinned and im not better than anyone else(although i may be better off thanks to God)and my only salvation can come through Jesus Christ and professing him with my heart and mouth which may be different from your definition of being saved but my defintion comes from the Word of God not by what the a preacher or priest or pope or doctrine or bishop says it comes as directly from God as you can get in the King James Bible first written in 1611 this has some links why fillthevoid.org/Versions/Bible-versions.html and if what you believ isnt coming from the Bible you may need to read it and wonder whether you should believ God or any of the people mentioned before. im not trying to get ugly i just want an honest answer.

 

[guanophore]

im a protestant and i was wondering like what is there to speak out about us becasue i mean there are hypocrites and those who are one person in church and entirely different out of church but you can find that in Catholicism too also what do you find wrong with Protestants? in general. im not talking individual case but whats wrong with them as a whole?

I don’t find it useful to go about finding fault with others. I have enough fault in myself to keep me busy. When you say you are a “protestant” what does that mean to you? what are you protesting?

i try 2 read the Bible every day. i know ive sinned and im not better than anyone else(although i may be better off thanks to God)and my only salvation can come through Jesus Christ and professing him with my heart and mouth which may be different from your definition of being saved but my defintion comes from the Word of God not by what the a preacher or priest or pope or doctrine or bishop says it comes as directly from God as you can get in the King James Bible first written in 1611 this has some links why fillthevoid.org/Versions/Bible-versions.html and if what you believ isnt coming from the Bible you may need to read it and wonder whether you should believ God or any of the people mentioned before. im not trying to get ugly i just want an honest answer.

Where did the King James Bible come from, I wonder? what did Christians do for the word of God for the first 1600 years?

 

[Pax]

im a protestant and i was wondering like what is there to speak out about us becasue i mean there are hypocrites and those who are one person in church and entirely different out of church but you can find that in Catholicism too also what do you find wrong with Protestants? in general. im not talking individual case but whats wrong with them as a whole? i try 2 read the Bible every day. i know ive sinned and im not better than anyone else(although i may be better off thanks to God)and my only salvation can come through Jesus Christ and professing him with my heart and mouth which may be different from your definition of being saved but my defintion comes from the Word of God not by what the a preacher or priest or pope or doctrine or bishop says it comes as directly from God as you can get in the King James Bible first written in 1611 this has some links why fillthevoid.org/Versions/Bible-versions.html and if what you believ isnt coming from the Bible you may need to read it and wonder whether you should believ God or any of the people mentioned before. im not trying to get ugly i just want an honest answer.

Well I’m glad you’re not trying to get ugly…none of us needs to do that.

You have made a couple of serious errors in your post. First of all let me simply say that I have read all about the controversy concerning "The King James Version of the Bible ONLY. I don’t think you have read the opposing views. Try doing so, you’ll find it enlightening. The rebuttals come from knowledgeable Protestants and not Catholics so you don’t have to worry about a Catholic bias.

I’ll give you a few examples of some errors in the KJV.

Errors in the King James not found in the Septuagint

1. The scripture specifically mentions seven nations that the Israelites were forbidden to enter into covenants with. All seven are listed in Deuteronomy 7:1. But for some reason, when these “seven” nations are repeated in other parts of scripture, the KJV deletes one of them, the Girgashites, whereas the Septuagint retains all seven of them (Exodus 23:23; 34:11). Likewise, Genesis 15:21 lists five nations, but the King James deletes one of them, the “Evites.”
2. In Acts 7:14, Stephen relates the story of the Israelite nation and refers to 75 people who traveled from Canaan to Egypt in the emigration of Jacob’s family. Genesis 46:27 and Exodus 1:5 in the King James falsely state “70.” Genesis 46:27 and Exodus 1:5 in the Septuagint correctly read 75, which agrees with Acts 7:14. The Old Testament books, in most bibles, is translated from a corrupted Masoretic Text, which is why “70” is mistranslated at Genesis 46:27 and Exodus 1:5 in most bibles.
3. In the King James bible, 2 Samuel 24:13 says there would be seven years of famine, but 1 Chronicles 21:12 says three years of famine. In the Septuagint, both verses accurately read three years of famine.
4. In the King James bible, 2 Kings 8:26 says Ahaziah was 22 years old when he began his reign, 2 Chronicles 22:2 says he was 42 years old. The Septuagint accurately reads 22 years old for both.
5. In the King James Bible, 1 Kings 5:16 says there were 3300 overseers, and 2 Chronicles 2:18, speaking of the same thing, says there were 3600 overseers. In the Septuagint, both verses accurately read 3600 (3600 is also confirmed in III Kings, chapter 3, first paragraph, in the Septuagint).
6. Speaking of the same exact event, the King James Bible says there were 700 horsemen in 2 Samuel 8:4, but 7000 horsemen in 1 Chronicles 18:4. In the Septuagint, both verses accurately read 7,000 horsemen.

 

[Pax]

…
…

…
…my defintion comes from the Word of God not by what the a preacher or priest or pope or doctrine or bishop says it comes as directly from God as you can get in the King James Bible first written in 1611…
…
…

I see nothing wrong with your definition of the source of your salvation. However, so much more can be said about it than what you wrote. You then went on to say what I quoted above. The problem with this is that you have placed your understanding of the bible, that is your personal interpretation and understanding, above all others. You have just claimed a form of infallibility for yourself.

Scripture has the following to say about these kinds of things:

–Scripture says that the “church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth.”[1 Tim 3:15]. Please note that scripture does not make that claim for itself, but makes it on behalf of the church.
That is why it is so important to listen to the church.

–2 Thess 2:15, 2 Tim 2:2, 1 Cor 11:2, and 1 Thess 2:13 all teach that we are to hold fast to the “traditions” handed down to us. This includes traditions that come to us by either word of mouth or by letter.

–1 Tim 3:1 says that a bishop must be an apt teacher and that he must be able to take care of God’s church. Titus 1:7-9 says that a bishop is God’s steward and that he is a teacher and must be able to preach with sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict it. Acts 20:27 indicates that bishops watch over the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made them overseers. Likewise Hebrews 13:17 says "Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls and will give an account.

These are just some of the passages that need to be considered when challenging the church and its leaders and striking out on our own.

I hope this helps.

 

[lak611]

–Scripture says that the “church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth.”[1 Tim 3:15]. Please note that scripture does not make that claim for itself, but makes it on behalf of the church.
That is why it is so important to listen to the church.

From the KJV: “1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.”

–2 Thess 2:15

from the KJV: “2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.”

2 Tim 2:2

from the KJV: “2Ti 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.”

1 Cor 11:2

from the KJV: “1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.”

and 1 Thess 2:13

from the KJV: “Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.”

all teach that we are to hold fast to the “traditions” handed down to us. This includes traditions that come to us by either word of mouth or by letter.

–

 

[Thaddeus]

Why anyone would want to be a follower of Luther or Calvin or Henry VIII instead of St. Peter is beyond me.

Protestants can be saved, even though they don’t belong to the Bride of Christ, but they *probably *will have more purgatory time (along with all of the cafeteria Catholics !)

 

[7Jesus7saves]

Well I’m glad you’re not trying to get ugly…none of us needs to do that.

You have made a couple of serious errors in your post. First of all let me simply say that I have read all about the controversy concerning "The King James Version of the Bible ONLY. I don’t think you have read the opposing views. Try doing so, you’ll find it enlightening. The rebuttals come from knowledgeable Protestants and not Catholics so you don’t have to worry about a Catholic bias.

I’ll give you a few examples of some errors in the KJV.

Errors in the King James not found in the Septuagint

1. The scripture specifically mentions seven nations that the Israelites were forbidden to enter into covenants with. All seven are listed in Deuteronomy 7:1. But for some reason, when these “seven” nations are repeated in other parts of scripture, the KJV deletes one of them, the Girgashites, whereas the Septuagint retains all seven of them (Exodus 23:23; 34:11). Likewise, Genesis 15:21 lists five nations, but the King James deletes one of them, the “Evites.”
2. In Acts 7:14, Stephen relates the story of the Israelite nation and refers to 75 people who traveled from Canaan to Egypt in the emigration of Jacob’s family. Genesis 46:27 and Exodus 1:5 in the King James falsely state “70.” Genesis 46:27 and Exodus 1:5 in the Septuagint correctly read 75, which agrees with Acts 7:14. The Old Testament books, in most bibles, is translated from a corrupted Masoretic Text, which is why “70” is mistranslated at Genesis 46:27 and Exodus 1:5 in most bibles.
3. In the King James bible, 2 Samuel 24:13 says there would be seven years of famine, but 1 Chronicles 21:12 says three years of famine. In the Septuagint, both verses accurately read three years of famine.
4. In the King James bible, 2 Kings 8:26 says Ahaziah was 22 years old when he began his reign, 2 Chronicles 22:2 says he was 42 years old. The Septuagint accurately reads 22 years old for both.
5. In the King James Bible, 1 Kings 5:16 says there were 3300 overseers, and 2 Chronicles 2:18, speaking of the same thing, says there were 3600 overseers. In the Septuagint, both verses accurately read 3600 (3600 is also confirmed in III Kings, chapter 3, first paragraph, in the Septuagint).
6. Speaking of the same exact event, the King James Bible says there were 700 horsemen in 2 Samuel 8:4, but 7000 horsemen in 1 Chronicles 18:4. In the Septuagint, both verses accurately read 7,000 horsemen.

thank you unfortunately i guess there can be errors in ALL bibles and teachings

 

[Pax]

thank you unfortunately i guess there can be errors in ALL bibles and teachings

The thing to remember about bible translations is that they are “translations.” Translators are not inspired whereas the original biblical texts are inspired. Translations are never quite perfect because something is always lost in the translation between languages. Neverthless, our English translations are usually quite good, but it is worthwhile having several translations available in order to get the full meaning.

The Catholic Church has more than 2000 years of scriptural knowledge, wisdom, and experience. The Church’s teachings are carefully developed and explained and are the fruit of this mountain of scriptural wisdom and experience.

Where you have doubts and questions, the Church has the most satisfying of answers. Many here on this forum will be glad to help you navigate through the issues by way of scripture. It will be a great and enlightening experience for you.

May the Lord’s peace, wisdom, and grace be with you always.

 

[DB_AND_ALI]

im a protestant and i was wondering like what is there to speak out about us becasue i mean there are hypocrites and those who are one person in church and entirely different out of church but you can find that in Catholicism too also what do you find wrong with Protestants? in general. im not talking individual case but whats wrong with them as a whole? i try 2 read the Bible every day. i know ive sinned and im not better than anyone else(although i may be better off thanks to God)and my only salvation can come through Jesus Christ and professing him with my heart and mouth which may be different from your definition of being saved but my defintion comes from the Word of God not by what the a preacher or priest or pope or doctrine or bishop says it comes as directly from God as you can get in the King James Bible first written in 1611 this has some links why fillthevoid.org/Versions/Bible-versions.html and if what you believ isnt coming from the Bible you may need to read it and wonder whether you should believ God or any of the people mentioned before. im not trying to get ugly i just want an honest answer.

Although my mom converted to catholicism the main body of her family remained protestant…my fathers side are all catholic. I have therefore had the honour of knowing many ‘christ-like’ protestants as well as catholics !
Both ‘sides’ get along famously…and that is probably why i detest those folk who cannot ‘see the other side’. I hope you get to meet a few good catholics were you live…give em a hug !

 

[BradyQ]

Brady,
Did you know that for about the first 300 years after Christ death there wasn’t a Bible as we know it? That is were Sacred Tradition comes in to play. Did you also know that for 1050 year after Christ died that there was only one church the Catholic Church? Then we had two the Eastern Church that is very similar to the Catholic Church. Did you also know that it was the Catholic Church that decided in a council what books would be put in the Bible as we know it today? And did you know that the Catholic Bible has more books in it than a Protestant one? Did you also know it was Catholic monks who sat for pain staking hours with bad lighting translating the Bible so it would be available. (Please don’t jump on Catholics not wanting people to read it in ancient time’s that is a whole other topic.)
I think you need to do some research on Church history and find out why we know the Catholic Church to be the Church that Jesus Christ founded and why we believe so deeply that it is thought it you receive the fullness of Christianity.

I wish you grace on your journey, as we are all on it and I will pray for you.

Why, Yes I did know that! Did you know that during those 1050 the Catholic Church killed thousands of people (there was a whole mess called the Crusades and the Inquisition) many of them were just following the Bible that supposedly the Catholic Church put together? But did you know that it was actually John Wycliffe that first translated the Bible to English? AND he was persucuted by the Catholic Church (but that didn’t kill him) No, they just dug up his remains, burned them, then threw them in the Rhine River! but there was a guy named John Huss who agreed with John Wycliffe’s “evil” Bible-Based ideas and started teaching them. then the catholic church cut off the top of his head with some shears, called him a hertic, and burned him at the stake in 1415! did you know all that?

sorry if i just sounded like a brat. I love you!

 

[Pax]

Why, Yes I did know that! Did you know that during those 1050 the Catholic Church killed thousands of people (there was a whole mess called the Crusades and the Inquisition) many of them were just following the Bible that supposedly the Catholic Church put together? But did you know that it was actually John Wycliffe that first translated the Bible to English? AND he was persucuted by the Catholic Church (but that didn’t kill him) No, they just dug up his remains, burned them, then threw them in the Rhine River! but there was a guy named John Huss who agreed with John Wycliffe’s “evil” Bible-Based ideas and started teaching them. then the catholic church cut off the top of his head with some shears, called him a hertic, and burned him at the stake in 1415! did you know all that?

sorry if i just sounded like a brat. I love you!

You need to do a little more historical research particularly as it pertains to Wyclif’s bible. Wyclif’s translation was an unauthorized version, with many errors, written in Old English around 1380. It was not the first English translation of scripture. Aelfric, Catholic Archbishop of Canterbury from 994-1005, translated the first seven books and the Book of Job into Old English. Between 721 and 901, various writers (i.e. Bede, Eadfrith, Alcuin, and King Alfred) translated parts or all of the bible into Old English.

The first modern English Catholic translation was the Douay Rheims NT of 1582 and the OT in 1610. The KJV was first published in 1610.

Prior to the Reformation and Luther’s German translation there were 14 complete printed editions in German. Parallel with this in time were 11 Italian translations, 10 French, 2 Bohemian, 1 Flemish, and 1 Russian translation.

The so called bible based ideas of Wyclif and Huss were simply heretical views. The Catholic Church is the first bible church and is the only apostolic church. Contrary statements by Protestants are simply erroneous.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

im a protestant and i was wondering like what is there to speak out about us becasue i mean there are hypocrites and those who are one person in church and entirely different out of church but you can find that in Catholicism too also what do you find wrong with Protestants? in general. im not talking individual case but whats wrong with them as a whole? i try 2 read the Bible every day. i know ive sinned and im not better than anyone else(although i may be better off thanks to God)and my only salvation can come through Jesus Christ and professing him with my heart and mouth which may be different from your definition of being saved but my defintion comes from the Word of God not by what the a preacher or priest or pope or doctrine or bishop says it comes as directly from God as you can get in the King James Bible first written in 1611 this has some links why fillthevoid.org/Versions/Bible-versions.html and if what you believ isnt coming from the Bible you may need to read it and wonder whether you should believ God or any of the people mentioned before. im not trying to get ugly i just want an honest answer.

I only refer to myself as protestant in these forums, other than that I dont use the term. You are correct, for anyone or anyside to claim perfection you know then just how wrong they are. There was only one perfect one and that was Christ. We all try and attempt to follow His ways and do a poor job at most.

Humility in Gods people would go a long way, I dont care if a person goes to a Baptist church or a Catholic one. Just that they know Christ and that they cannot truly live life without Him. And that only through Him they will find that freedom that everyone wants so much.

Im reminded in your post, and this thread, of when the apostles were arguing about who was the greatest, and Jesus said the least amoung them would be first, humility.

 

[DB_AND_ALI]

Why, Yes I did know that! Did you know that during those 1050 the Catholic Church killed thousands of people (there was a whole mess called the Crusades and the Inquisition) many of them were just following the Bible that supposedly the Catholic Church put together? But did you know that it was actually John Wycliffe that first translated the Bible to English? AND he was persucuted by the Catholic Church (but that didn’t kill him) No, they just dug up his remains, burned them, then threw them in the Rhine River! but there was a guy named John Huss who agreed with John Wycliffe’s “evil” Bible-Based ideas and started teaching them. then the catholic church cut off the top of his head with some shears, called him a hertic, and burned him at the stake in 1415! did you know all that?

sorry if i just sounded like a brat. I love you!

And the catholic church , especially under jp2 has expressed it’s sincere and deepest sorrow with the past evils committed in the name of the church. Now are christians going to allow these past events to keep them apart for another 1500 years…yawn ; i don’t think Jesus would approve one iota !!!

 

[jam070406]

I only refer to myself as protestant in these forums, other than that I dont use the term. You are correct, for anyone or anyside to claim perfection you know then just how wrong they are. There was only one perfect one and that was Christ. We all try and attempt to follow His ways and do a poor job at most.

Humility in Gods people would go a long way, I dont care if a person goes to a Baptist church or a Catholic one. Just that they know Christ and that they cannot truly live life without Him. And that only through Him they will find that freedom that everyone wants so much.

Im reminded in your post, and this thread, of when the apostles were arguing about who was the greatest, and Jesus said the least amoung them would be first, humility.

the issue is not about humility. the issue is about truth. truth is not relative. truth can also be like a sword. Jesus said He came to divide. He also said there will be many that call on His name and He will say I never knew you. there was a church established by Christ, the Catholic Church. all that are outside of the One true Church are man made religions. it most certainly makes a difference which church you follow. the difference has a bearing on your salvation. the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth. and God’s grace in the gift of the sacraments. anything other is risking flawed theology, partial truth and the risk of not obtaining salvation.
the message Jesus was conveying that you speak of has more to do with service and sacrificing for others and much less to do with denomination. by not speaking out in love against flawed Protestant theology and practice, Catholics are risking the lose of the souls of Protestants and judgement upon themselves for not using the gift of truth they were given.

 

[Thaddeus]

Jesus Christ started a church - He told Peter - Upon this rock I will build **MY **Church. In order to be a good protestant, you have to believe that this church was not the Catholic Church, but the church of Luther or Zwingli or Calvin 1500 years later. If one reads the early church fathers like Ignatius or Augustine or many others, you will find that they were all Catholics, and that there were no Calvinists, Baptists, Lutherans or Methodists anywhere around. Apostolic succession and the Eucharist is why the Catholic Church is the one true Church started by Jesus Himself.

 

[awantz]

Jesus Christ started a church - He told Peter - Upon this rock I will build **MY **Church. In order to be a good protestant, you have to believe that this church was not the Catholic Church, but the church of Luther or Zwingli or Calvin 1500 years later. If one reads the early church fathers like Ignatius or Augustine or many others, you will find that they were all Catholics, and that there were no Calvinists, Baptists, Lutherans or Methodists anywhere around. Apostolic succession and the Eucharist is why the Catholic Church is the one true Church started by Jesus Himself.

I believe that is the church of Jesus Christ and we are all part of His church/body… It is not the church of Catholics, Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, or any other human.

 

[Thaddeus]

Then how come some say infant baptism is OK, some don’t. Some say that Jesus is present in the Eucharist, some don’t. Some have abridged bibles, some don’t. Some have women pastors, some don’t. Some say the practice of homosexuality is OK, some don’t.

For being the same church, they sure are different.

 

[awantz]

Then how come some say infant baptism is OK, some don’t. Some say that Jesus is present in the Eucharist, some don’t. Some have abridged bibles, some don’t. Some have women pastors, some don’t. Some say the practice of homosexuality is OK, some don’t.

For being the same church, they sure are different.

They may have different opinions when it comes to small things, but when it comes to the basis of their faith they all believe the same. If they don’t they are not truly part of the body/church of Christ. Although, it is not our job to judge.