B
BarbaraTherese
Guest
Quoting Gottleof Geer
I agree really with what you say above, in that dogmas and doctrines are not going to save us in any way whatsoever, although many have put dogma and doctrine where God should be in their lives - and one can see this sometimes on CAF as people argue heatedly over doctrine and dogma to the point of being totally condemning and discourteous (to put things mildly) towards the other.
Having put doctrine and doctrine in the place of God, there is the attitude that since they are obeying all rules and regulations, doctrine and dogma, God therefore is their servant saving them (although neither sighted nor couched in those terms).And I do maintain this is the fault of leadership, and a problem they need to address very radically indeed if anything is to change. First and foremost, all leadership needs formation and become a certain sort of person walking the talk. Jesus, undoubtedly, was all about becoming a certain sort of person who views reality and all it contains in a certain sort of way.
The world is in a mess and the world in the times of Jesus was in a mess too. We are called to be a certain sort of people in the midst of it all and not divorcing ourselves from it but doing what we might be able to do about it and this is really what the life of Jesus was aboutā¦in the mess in his own world he observed what the problem seemed to be and then set about addressing it. Interestingly he does not start railing at the Romans for occupying holy land and persecuting Godās people, rather he becomes a certain sort of person adn sets about trying to form Godās people into a certain sort of peopleā¦and wherever he came across need he addressed it without confining himself to the need only of Godās people.
Our world today has changed from the times of Jesus though we are still in a mess and we need if we are able to address that mess. For some there will be the call and the skills will be gifted to try to get overwhelming suffering in our world addressed.
Undoubtedly if we were all a certain sort of people gathered together in The Church, then the voice and impact of The Church would truly resonate and have impact on all these problems in our world. This does not seem to be happening and to me this does not mean that God does not exist, or that he exists against the world - but it does mean that we really have to work hard at becoming a certain sort of people and I think if it is not coming from leadership, then only a miracle will change us.
But most often I tend to think that leadership is at their desk writing another article or document that most of us donāt understand and many dont even read and those that do either criticize and that is their joy, or take no real notice of it at all.
There is a ājokeā that circulates āour priests are so busy learning about pastoral care, they donāt have time for pastoral careā. We have become a people and a society who need to say āthe right thingā whatever it may be in our environement e.g. if my environment is that of intellectuals, I need to have things to say to appeal to the intellect or be pushed on the outside, even ridiculed - and so on and so forth depending on our particular environment either stable or temporary - and then what goes on ābehind closed doorsā is our own business. Rather we need to become a certain sort of person and then, indeed, we will say what is true and real everywhere and anywhere, and be that certain sort of person outside and behind closed doors. Simply because it is not a facade I adopt, it is the person I intrinsically am. It is said that mystics know without refelction what is to be done and do itā¦whoever said it, it just might be very true - in the future we are going to either be mystics or psychotics. And psychosis in effect means simply that one cannot sight or experience reality at all. The mystic engages it, united to it, and in all its diverse facets.
At the time our relatively new Archbishop (some 5 years or so now I think) was āenthronedā, a picture appeared on the front page of our Catholic newspaper. It quite stunned me as in the foreground (picture taken in our cathedral) was His Grace in all the full robing of an Archbishop and in the background was an extremly simple statue of Mary. That image for me was a statement and an article, essay, text - and not only featuring Our Lady.
10.19am here Sat 23Aug 2008.
Barb
Thanks for answering so quickly
I havenāt read the book, although I have heard of it.
Yep, we certainly have a real crisis in the priesthood which then flows on of course to parishes. Although I am convinced good will come of it in the long run. Else it would not be happeningSorry to hear things are so bad in Australia.
I remember during my illness, I was particulary āintoā some of the lyrics of Bob Dylan and one of his lines runs something like āforeign philosophies have polluted all your thoughtsā and I think it just might occur in his track āWhen you gonna wake up?ā. Bob Dylan for me at that time was prophetic, for me anyway. And in fact āforeign philosophiesā were polluting all my thoughts - as in my dire predicament I looked to psychiatry to save meā¦I had lost touch with God as a force living in my life - a powerful force and one for good - A God who loved and cared for me more than any other. He had become for me remote and uncaring although I did not put it that way (not always anyway) and at times I could not see the actual remote and uncaring place I had given to God, I was literally not walking my talkā¦if that makes sense. Dylan rather woke me up to this. The Holy Spirit can move in very strange ways sometimes - and indeed, The Lordās ways are not ours for sure at times.
I agree really with what you say above, in that dogmas and doctrines are not going to save us in any way whatsoever, although many have put dogma and doctrine where God should be in their lives - and one can see this sometimes on CAF as people argue heatedly over doctrine and dogma to the point of being totally condemning and discourteous (to put things mildly) towards the other.
Having put doctrine and doctrine in the place of God, there is the attitude that since they are obeying all rules and regulations, doctrine and dogma, God therefore is their servant saving them (although neither sighted nor couched in those terms).And I do maintain this is the fault of leadership, and a problem they need to address very radically indeed if anything is to change. First and foremost, all leadership needs formation and become a certain sort of person walking the talk. Jesus, undoubtedly, was all about becoming a certain sort of person who views reality and all it contains in a certain sort of way.
The world is in a mess and the world in the times of Jesus was in a mess too. We are called to be a certain sort of people in the midst of it all and not divorcing ourselves from it but doing what we might be able to do about it and this is really what the life of Jesus was aboutā¦in the mess in his own world he observed what the problem seemed to be and then set about addressing it. Interestingly he does not start railing at the Romans for occupying holy land and persecuting Godās people, rather he becomes a certain sort of person adn sets about trying to form Godās people into a certain sort of peopleā¦and wherever he came across need he addressed it without confining himself to the need only of Godās people.
Our world today has changed from the times of Jesus though we are still in a mess and we need if we are able to address that mess. For some there will be the call and the skills will be gifted to try to get overwhelming suffering in our world addressed.
Undoubtedly if we were all a certain sort of people gathered together in The Church, then the voice and impact of The Church would truly resonate and have impact on all these problems in our world. This does not seem to be happening and to me this does not mean that God does not exist, or that he exists against the world - but it does mean that we really have to work hard at becoming a certain sort of people and I think if it is not coming from leadership, then only a miracle will change us.
But most often I tend to think that leadership is at their desk writing another article or document that most of us donāt understand and many dont even read and those that do either criticize and that is their joy, or take no real notice of it at all.
There is a ājokeā that circulates āour priests are so busy learning about pastoral care, they donāt have time for pastoral careā. We have become a people and a society who need to say āthe right thingā whatever it may be in our environement e.g. if my environment is that of intellectuals, I need to have things to say to appeal to the intellect or be pushed on the outside, even ridiculed - and so on and so forth depending on our particular environment either stable or temporary - and then what goes on ābehind closed doorsā is our own business. Rather we need to become a certain sort of person and then, indeed, we will say what is true and real everywhere and anywhere, and be that certain sort of person outside and behind closed doors. Simply because it is not a facade I adopt, it is the person I intrinsically am. It is said that mystics know without refelction what is to be done and do itā¦whoever said it, it just might be very true - in the future we are going to either be mystics or psychotics. And psychosis in effect means simply that one cannot sight or experience reality at all. The mystic engages it, united to it, and in all its diverse facets.
At the time our relatively new Archbishop (some 5 years or so now I think) was āenthronedā, a picture appeared on the front page of our Catholic newspaper. It quite stunned me as in the foreground (picture taken in our cathedral) was His Grace in all the full robing of an Archbishop and in the background was an extremly simple statue of Mary. That image for me was a statement and an article, essay, text - and not only featuring Our Lady.
Yeah, I am aware as I type that youse all are probably asleepItās 13.10 here - howās that for a time difference?
10.19am here Sat 23Aug 2008.Barb
ā¦
where are you going with this?