Why Protestants Reject the Deutero-canonical Books

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rcwitness said:
No, Damasus did not commission the collection of Scripture to be recognized as Divine? Or No, The collection he approved of had no authority and it just was a coincidence that it is the same collection to this day???
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The latter councils based their decisions on the canons from Hippo, Carthage and Laodicea… See the 6th ecumenical on this point. And it’s only the same canon to this day in the western churches. The eastern canons have always been different. There is no universal canon based on Damasus.
 
Per_Crucem said:
The latter councils based their decisions on the canons from Hippo, Carthage and Laodicea… See the 6th ecumenical on this point. And it’s only the same canon to this day in the western churches. The eastern canons have always been different. There is no universal canon based on Damasus.
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If the contents of the canon are the same in the Catholic Church as the ones determined by the authoity who gathered them (via St Jerome under Damasus), how do you determine the councils did not give any base respect to Damasus?
 
rcwitness said:
If the contents of the canon are the same in the Catholic Church as the ones determined by the authoity who gathered them (via St Jerome under Damasus), how do you determine the councils did not give any base respect to Damasus?
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It’s not that they didn’t give him any respect, per se. Besides, it’s not as if Damasus woke up one day and decided on the canon, after all. It was a council. The council at Laodicea formulated a canon some 20 years prior to the council at Rome.
 
Per_Crucem said:
How did God do what, formulate a canon? He formulated the canon when He authored the books that comprise it.
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This seems more like Islamic view on the Quran, not Apostolic teaching on Holy Scriptures.
 
Per_Crucem said:
How did God do what, formulate a canon? He formulated the canon when He authored the books that comprise it.
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Nope! Where does any scripture passage state a canon? Authoring is not the same as the canon. God inspired the Bible via men to write it,but no where is the canon mentioned by any scripture author.

He authored the books via human instruments to write His Word. But why are you deliberately excluding other factors in the canoninzation process? God used His Church and human instruments called bishops. There is no way to go around it, it is a confirmed fact of canon history.
 
Nicea325 said:
No,but Islamic to believe no humans had a role in its development.
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But that wasn’t what I said. What I said was the canon was formulated when God decided to inspire some books and not others. The only One with infallible knowledge of the canon, therefore, is God. He is also the only One that needs to know what the canon is in order for the canon to exist. That we know the canon is dependent upon His giving and the church receiving.
 
Per_Crucem said:
But that wasn’t what I said. What I said was the canon was formulated when God decided to inspire some books and not others. The only One with infallible knowledge of the canon, therefore, is God. He is also the only One that needs to know what the canon is in order for the canon to exist. That we know the canon is dependent upon His giving and the church receiving.
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Exactly! Through His mystical Body called the Church via ITS BISHOPS! NO different than ANY doctrinal development.

For the life of me, I do not know where Protestants get the notion God’s Church is apart from Himself and infallibility!
 
Nicea325 said:
Exactly! Through His mystical Body called the Church via ITS BISHOPS! NO different than ANY doctrinal development.

For the life of me, I do not know where Protestants get the notion God’s Church is apart from Himself and infallibility!
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Yeah, but I am not arguing anything to the contrary, Nicea. However, if you ask, in an epistemological sense, how I know we have the correct canon, I will ultimately say God. Since He is the only one capable of giving it. That He used the human agency of the church is a given.
 
Per_Crucem said:
But that wasn’t what I said. What I said was the canon was formulated when God decided to inspire some books and not others. The only One with infallible knowledge of the canon, therefore, is God. He is also the only One that needs to know what the canon is in order for the canon to exist. That we know the canon is dependent upon His giving and the church receiving.
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But the point is, is that God did not send Jesus back to us to travel the Church’s and say, “Here are the books guys, these are official”

Yet somehow, He did do this through His mystical body! Too much of Protestant theology just assumes the apostles themselves gave us the collected books, or something. What Church history reveals is that there were many books to be considered, not all being determined and yes, it was a process.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the canon we have today first was settled by Damasus. He may not have made an infaillible statement cementing the canon, because that was done by no one until Trent.
 
Per_Crucem said:
Yeah, but I am not arguing anything to the contrary, Nicea. However, if you ask, in an epistemological sense, how I know we have the correct canon, I will ultimately say God. Since He is the only one capable of giving it. That He used the human agency of the church is a given.
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And the CC has never said God was ultlimately responsible. But the point being here is that God USED His infallible church through its bishops to defend,explain and ratify ALL doctrines through development. And how? Through the promise Jesus said in John 14 and John 16…the Holy Spirit.

That is my point.
 
On a serious note…

Per Crucem, I am really missing some Spotted Cow! Im in Brasil now, and nothing compares!

formerly from Lake Geneva, WI
 
Per_Crucem said:
So it’s Islamic to say that when God authored Scripture, He authored Scripture? Interesting.
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No, but if you add the Martian word “alone” either in the middle or end, it is. (when God “alone” authored Scripture “alone”.)

The Christian faith is not a religion of the book. Christianity is the religion of the “Word” of God, a word which is not a written and mute word, but the Word is incarnate and living. If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ - the eternal Word of the living God - must, through the Holy Spirit, open our minds to understand the Scriptures.

God also authored our Liturgy and our Sacred Tradition equally.
 
rcwitness said:
On a serious note…

Per Crucem, I am really missing some Spotted Cow! Im in Brasil now, and nothing compares!

formerly from Lake Geneva, WI
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Oh gosh, yes! I will send you some!! Are you living in Brazil?

Have you ever been to Our Lady of Good Help here in Green Bay?
 
SyroMalankara said:
No, but if you add the Martian word “alone” either in the middle or end, it is. (when God “alone” authored Scripture “alone”.)

The Christian faith is not a religion of the book. Christianity is the religion of the “Word” of God, a word which is not a written and mute word, but the Word is incarnate and living. If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ - the eternal Word of the living God - must, through the Holy Spirit, open our minds to understand the Scriptures.

God also authored our Liturgy and our Sacred Tradition equally.
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Nothing here I would disagree with, Syro. I also wouldn’t disagree that the word of Christ exists in tradition. However, what I would disagree with is that anything in tradition which is substantially different than Scripture.
 
Israel came to recognize the Bible’s special authority even through nowhere in the OT is a book said to be inspired by God. What the OT contains is Israel’s belief that God revealed Himself in history and that history was guided by God’s Spirit. The writers of the OT teach that the breath of God came upon Moses, the Judges, Saul, David, the Prophets, etc. These specially chosen persons, with the help of God’s Spirit interpreted Israel’s history.

The authors of the OT and NT books did not think of themselves writing inspired writings. In the first years after the resurrection, there was little thought given to writing down a Christian library. Some of this was undoubtedly due to the example of the Lord Himself who, like the rabbis of the time, taught by the spoken word, which in turn was remembered and discussed by disciples. There was no need for writing while the Apostles were still alive to clarify or verify anything uncertain.

Many of the traditions found in the bible circulated for years, even centuries, in oral form before they were written down. Many authors were responsible for the material which was created for, and received by, a believing community. it was in this dynamic social setting that the sacred traditions were developed, interpreted, and synthesized before they became a book of Scripture. The meaning of a biblical text was arrived at in different ways throughout the history of interpretation. Jewish scholars had long recognized that the revealed Word of God had many possible meanings.

There came a time when the Church recognized certain writings as not just inspired by the authors that wrote them, or were used in the various Churches, yet, the writers themselves for example the Apostles who wrote or St. Paul who wrote his letters to the various Churches ever thought of themselves as inspired or that what they wrote was inspired and canonical. That was left up to the Church to decide which books were indeed inspired and therefore supplemented the oral teaching of the Apostles who were taught by Christ Himself. This led at some point to some type of a canon so that those books or writings not teaching what the Apostles taught or of that of Christ Himself, for example gnostic writings would not be considered sacred Scripture.
 
Per_Crucem said:
Nothing here I would disagree with, Syro. I also wouldn’t disagree that the word of Christ exists in tradition. However, what I would disagree with is that anything in tradition which is substantially different than Scripture.
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Then evidently you must have a problem with the 27 NT book/epistle canon,because no where is it mentioned in Scripture.
 
Per_Crucem said:
Oh gosh, yes! I will send you some!! Are you living in Brazil?

Have you ever been to Our Lady of Good Help here in Green Bay?
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My family and I (pregnant wife and 4yr old daughter) moved here a month ago. We are now living in the nation’s capitol, Brasilia.

I really thought about taking a couple cases of Spttd Cow in the shippment, but settled for a bottle of Milagro Special Reserve Anejo! I wish I had that today, its my birthday. but our shippment gets to the port on the 30th. Then I have to travel like 10 hrs to the coast in a box truck. Its an adventure!
 
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