U
underdog
Guest
Please look at the OP. I asked why I should become a Muslim. Please tell me… why should I become a Muslim? If you really believe Islam is the truth, please share with me.
Firstly, do not insult Jesus with the PBUH rubbish. Have some respect. If you don’t worship Jesus as the Son of God you cannot be considered Christian. We are not brainwashed into reciting the Bible as children (btw having to memorise and recite the Quran phonetically as children is brainwashing). Our parents know that Jesus loves us already and it is not necessary. We are told Bible stories instead.If being ‘Christian’ means someone who faithfully follows the teachings of Jesus Christ (pbuh), then this would mean that all Christians should become Muslims because Muslims are the best Christians in the world.
As to how Muslims follow Prophet Jesus (pbuh), kindly refer to this thread of which the following are the relevant posts:
1, 2, 4, 5, 60, 76, 101, 129, 153, 154
A ‘Muslim’ is someone who submits to the will of Allah, just like Prophet Jesus (pbuh) did and therefore, why should Muslims become Christians → Do Christians make the best Muslims in the world??
Oh… I don’t think this is what Jesus woud say, do you? Christ came into this world to save sinners from all tongues, tribes, and nations. I want to hear what Muslims have to share too.IF YOU DON’T WORSHIP JESUS CHRIST YOU CANNOT BE A CHRISTIAN. GIVEN THAT THIS IS CATHOLIC BOARD GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.
may be yes , may be no . To me it’s a kind of miracle – Millions people have Quran in memory when so far Bible is not memorised by any single Christian .…Muslim Woman, the challenge put by the Quran is not about memorizing it.
why you & not me the judge?I want you please to find me one Quranic passage better than the Sermon of the Mount in the NT and i am the judge.
God Almighty , Of Course ; who else could be ?… Who is your savior and Lord?
We have two versions of God almighty, therefore we have two different gods.http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif
Salaam/ Peace
God Almighty , Of Course ; who else could be ?
A human being can’t save anyone including himself/herself from eternal fire without the mercy of God.
…O people of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not from among ourselves Lords and patrons other than God." If then they turn back say: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to God’s will).
Qur’an 3:64-71 Surah Ale-'Imran (The Family of 'Imran)
because when you challenge me, you are the judge so when i challenge you, i am the judge…am doing what you are doing. Have you got a Quranic passages to meet the challenge?why you & not me the judge?
Because my question had nothing to do with when the verse was revealed, and if there was a Muslim power on Earth at that time. I am curious as to what it says about Allah that He would supposedly challenge humanity to do something He and they both already know cannot happen. What is the point? Why would Allah do this?Why not?
Well, if the distinction was a distinction of position, how could the son do as the father? It is supposed that each one has his position, otherwise, there is no distinction.i meant that what we call “persons” in the Godhead are not seperate, whatever God does, the Trinity does because the Word and Spirit are not seperate, so Jesus says “whatver the Father does, the Son does likewise”. In other words, we explain the distinction between Father, Word and Spirit which is a distinction in position, we do not speak of seperation.
The 2 words are mutually exclusive how could the word “begotten” mean “always existing”? Even when Theophilus wrote it he clearly tells that, and will adress it in its position.yes, in the sense that the Quran always existed as the eternal and uncreated Word of Allah. Do you believe Allah aquired His Word later when He was previously Wordless? this is simply what we mean by begotten Word, it simply means always existing.
Again, this is irrelevant, God’s Word is an attribute of Him, which is not your case as you say that it’s a distinct person, for example, I don’t say that my words are a different person in position who also has a different will than mine or that interact with it the way you do in your trinity? For example, how could they be one in nature when one of them sits on the right of the other?not equal in position because the Father is the Font, however, it does not mean the Word is not equal in nature because the Word is the eternal Word/Reason of the Father. If you believe the Quran is eternal and uncreated yet not Allah, does it mean the Quran is another deity? no
This is not what I am talking about, I am talking about the human and divine natures, did Jesus say (or in other words understand) he had both natures? And how could we know whether he is acting with his divine or his human nature? We needn’t an independent thread, you can just give me one or two examples of these many quotes.this needs a thread on its own. If you are interested, open a thread because there are too many quotes. I for example gave you many passages from John where parallelism between the Wisdom and Logos/Word are drawn from both OT and NT.
Jesus is the eternal Word incarnated as a man. Neither is God a man nor did Jesus become God.
Well, the word mother is well known to have the meaning of leadership in many languages, while the word set up must mean that there is a subject and an object, that one wasn’t set up then he was, the Bible could have used other words which also used in many languages, for example it could have said " I was with God from the beginning". The same as using the word “pocessed” which means that the father owns the son.The Bible uses human language to explain abstract ideas, just like Allah calls the Quran the “mother” of books but since this mother is eternal and uncreated, does not mean that it needed a husband to exist? does it meant it wasn’t eternal because a mother has a previous mother for it to exist? these are human words used to explain abstract ideas.
It may mean eternally existing but it can’t mean eternally begotten as he mentioned begetting after this sentence, I have even read an early father before saying that God used to have the word in his belly, then when he wanted to create all things he begot him, but unfortunately, I couldn’t remember the source exactly.read the bold parts to understand the conclusion. it means eternally begotten, eternally existing as the Mind of the Father.
I don’t actually know where Jesus said so, he didn’t differentiate between a Jew and a gentile concerning this issue, this is Paul. But anyways, I will go with you till the end, if a Jew living now converted to Christianity, should he abide to the OT laws?depends on what you understand by the Law, and depends whether am a Jew born under the Mosaic law for Jews or a gentile asked to follow Jesus without converting to Judaism.
there is only one God – God of Adam , Abraham ,Moses , Jesus , Muhammed (peace be upon them all ) & all human being , Jinn , angels etc. Remember Jesus (p) also had the same God .…we have two different gods…
So you still didn’t give me the source of what you posted, and still you didn’t tell me who discredited it.first, differences prove nothing because the Christian myth is different than the previous ones. Second, it is discredited as a widespread myth because many cultures had it, pagans, Jews, Christians even Plato ecc.
What did you adress? Your fathers say that passages from Jeremiah, Esdras, and many prophetic writings were lost and not present in the current OT? Where did you adress that?i adressed what preservation of God’s words mean to Christians.
Well, you are taking my argument out of context, I was speaking particularly about the Sura like it challenge. You are trying to generalize my evidence on everything.so you don’t have concrete evidence of people trying to meet the challenge and failing.
besides, the presence of Mormonism today is the ultimate proof that no one could prove it isn’t from God. Do you buy this logic?
Well, you must look at the whole picture, the mormons were not persecuted as Muslims were at the beginning of Islam, it is just a polemic, and in this case, if they were proven wrong, they may have had some other reasons to still believe what they believe as leadership or money or anything else, besides, it may have been the case that they didn’t find strong replies to their arguments, so they continued on. And both cases are not the case with the Quranic challenge, as people have no need to be persecuted for a belief they know it was proven false. And the Arabs were challenged in what they are well known to be superior in, and no one has their skills, so the mormon’s case doesn’t match with Islam.many books proved the Mormon book is false yet Mormonism is here with millions of adherents so who is wrong? the Mormons or those who proved the book is false yet did not meet the Mormon challenge according to Mormons? so because Mormonism could not be suppressed and managed to survive despite attacks and people are astonished with it , it means Mormonism is from God?
Well, not all people believed it was Jesus who was crucified, read the Gospel of Judas and Acts of Peter, you may consider them gnostic gospels, but the fact that they existed at an early age, at least in the second century if we took the testimony of Christian scholars as granted, I myself don’t see that the gospels date to a later age, so it’s clear that this issue had been a dispute since the beginning of Christianity, and this is what the Quran tells.in other words, Allah made a trick that deceived humans yet asks humans not to believe in a trick he made in the first place? how can humans not say it was Jesus if Allah put an appearance of Jesus infront of them, yet says they follow “conjecture”?
God made this to save Jesus (Peace be upon him), didn’t He get the pharaoh to the sea and then drowned him, why don’t you call this a trick as well?isn’t this conjecture what Allah made in the first place? and why would Allah kill a man in place of another? don’t you believe no one carries the burden of someone else?
I answered that this miracle was shown by Jesus (Peace be upon him) speaking in his cradle, is this something normal? The Jews couldn’t have written it because they won’t have written an evidence against them, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, did the Jews record this?you answered by saying it was a miracle for the Jews. So i repeat my questions : what is this miracle that no Jew could have seen or witnessed or verified? what did Jesus have to be born as such and to prove what if no one could even see this miracle?
I am asking you to show me a holy book or other book that has more than 6 thousands verses/ sentences & can be memorised by milllions . Why it’s so hard for you to give me the name of such book. Out of billion Christians in the earth , there could be some believers who have the whole Bible in memory , right ? Let me know about only one such person , thanks .… when you challenge me, you are the judge
yap , each verse of Quran is superbHave you got a Quranic passages to meet the challenge?
God cursed Cain for killing, while He didn’t condemn polygamy, but even when your Bible accuses David (Peace be upon him) of adultery, your god blamed him saying that if you wished other women I would have given you.killing innocent people isn’t the plan of God yet Cain killed his brother. Just because God allows something, it doesn’t mean it is His plan.
2Sa 12:8 and I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would have added unto thee such and such things.
Didn’t you say that this was about divorce? You still didn’t answer me, if polygamy wasn’t God’s plan, why did He condone it?When God created Adam, He created Eve, not a dozen , this is why Jesus says “in the beginning” when refering to marriage. When God had a plan for humanity, He created Adam and one companion Eve.
Well, there must be a strong reason for a woman to ask for divorce as being not fair with her or that he is a bad person, but polygamy itself is not a strong reason, she may feel annoyed for having a second wife, but she can get over it after some time unless he is not fair with her or prefers the other wife over her.Add to it that Allah allows polygamy, and Allah hates divorce, yet Allah allows what he hates in case of polygamy. A woman has a green card to do what Allah hates because her busband feels like having a second wife.
A marriage with a divorce intention is haram as it is a type of Mut’a which is forbidden, I mean that the marriage contract is right, but the action itself is a sin especially if he didn’t tell her, as the deceit sin will be also added.Add to it that when divorce and remarriage are easy, so lets say a man married 4, then divorced them one after another, them remarried other one after another, it becomes halal prostitution.
Again this is irrelevant, Allah condemned my sin in the Quran or in the Sunna, but God didn’t condemn Adam’s sons marrying from Adam’s daughters. What you are saying is totally irrelevant.no, if you sin is Allah sinful because he allowed you?
It was practiced after the Prophet’s death as it is not necessary that all people knew about it since it was forbidden at the end of the Prophet’s life, but after a while all people knew. The hadith is so clear that Mut’a is Haram.the Shia are applying what Muhammad once taught, and they have their proofs that it wasn’t abolished since even after Muhammad’s death it was practiced. Divorce and remarriage can be misused, polygamy can be misused, beating wives can be misused yet Allah did not abolish them but you are saying that even if the same conditions during Muhammad’s time arose, it is still forbidden…something is quite strange, morality-wise.
As for misusing, the case of Mut’a is much difficult as misusing it will lead to much more problems which overwhelm its benefits while in case of divorce and polygamy, they may be misused, but still their benefits and importance overcomes problems coming from some misuses.
Well, you are now talking about a different issue which is the difference between recitation, I thought you were talking about adding vowels to the Quranic text, these are two different subjects.can you please cite a source for the bold part?
because i know that:
Either Allah revealed them or that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) named them and Allah accepted them.who revealed the names written in the Quran?
Actually Assiuty answered this claim in these words, and may be he explained it more, but the source you copied from took it out of context.what does abrogation by recitation means?Suyuti himself asked the same logical question, he says:
what belief do you want to read about? Jesus’ crucificion? divinity? the Trinity?
Read the verse itself and you’ll know the reason for the challenge?Because my question had nothing to do with when the verse was revealed, and if there was a Muslim power on Earth at that time. I am curious as to what it says about Allah that He would supposedly challenge humanity to do something He and they both already know cannot happen. What is the point? Why would Allah do this?
Okay…so the difference is that if we read the entire verse we see that Allah is giving Muhammad the right to engage mankind in this crazy challenge? I don’t see how that’s any better or how that resolves the problem.Read the verse itself and you’ll know the reason for the challenge?
38- **Or do they say: «He Muhammad has forged it» Say to them: **«If you do believe I did, then produce one Surah the like thereof, and call on all those besides Allah whom you can possibly engage to venture upon this undertaking if indeed you are declaring the truth!»(Yunus)