Why should I become a Muslim, and why you should become a Christian.

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Please look at the OP. I asked why I should become a Muslim. Please tell me… why should I become a Muslim? If you really believe Islam is the truth, please share with me.
 
If being ‘Christian’ means someone who faithfully follows the teachings of Jesus Christ (pbuh), then this would mean that all Christians should become Muslims because Muslims are the best Christians in the world.

As to how Muslims follow Prophet Jesus (pbuh), kindly refer to this thread of which the following are the relevant posts:

1, 2, 4, 5, 60, 76, 101, 129, 153, 154

A ‘Muslim’ is someone who submits to the will of Allah, just like Prophet Jesus (pbuh) did and therefore, why should Muslims become Christians → Do Christians make the best Muslims in the world??
Firstly, do not insult Jesus with the PBUH rubbish. Have some respect. If you don’t worship Jesus as the Son of God you cannot be considered Christian. We are not brainwashed into reciting the Bible as children (btw having to memorise and recite the Quran phonetically as children is brainwashing). Our parents know that Jesus loves us already and it is not necessary. We are told Bible stories instead.
 
IF YOU DON’T WORSHIP JESUS CHRIST YOU CANNOT BE A CHRISTIAN. GIVEN THAT THIS IS CATHOLIC BOARD GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.
Oh… I don’t think this is what Jesus woud say, do you? Christ came into this world to save sinners from all tongues, tribes, and nations. I want to hear what Muslims have to share too.

1 Chronicles 16:31
Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice, and let them say among the nations, “The Lord reigns!”

Psalm 67:4
Let the nations be glad and sing for joy, for you judge the peoples with equity and guide the nations upon earth. Selah
 
  1. Why you should become a Christian? To be a child of promise.
Hagar and Sarah

21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23 But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; [5] she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28 Now you, [6] brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31 So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

Galatians 4
 
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Salaam/ Peace
…Muslim Woman, the challenge put by the Quran is not about memorizing it.
may be yes , may be no . To me it’s a kind of miracle – Millions people have Quran in memory when so far Bible is not memorised by any single Christian .

Even a very ordinary Muslim like me can recite minimum 100 verses from memory .
I want you please to find me one Quranic passage better than the Sermon of the Mount in the NT and i am the judge.
why you & not me the judge?
 
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Salaam/ Peace
… Who is your savior and Lord?
God Almighty , Of Course ; who else could be ? 🤷

A human being can’t save anyone including himself/herself from eternal fire without the mercy of God.

…O people of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not from among ourselves Lords and patrons other than God." If then they turn back say: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to God’s will).

Qur’an 3:64-71 Surah Ale-'Imran (The Family of 'Imran)
 
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/ Peace

God Almighty , Of Course ; who else could be ? 🤷

A human being can’t save anyone including himself/herself from eternal fire without the mercy of God.

…O people of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not from among ourselves Lords and patrons other than God." If then they turn back say: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to God’s will).

Qur’an 3:64-71 Surah Ale-'Imran (The Family of 'Imran)
We have two versions of God almighty, therefore we have two different gods.
  1. The Almighty Triune God, revealed in the godhead consisting of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
  2. Allah
Therefore, we have two different Lords and two different gods. Our differences are too great to think that we know the same God, regardless what others might think. As a non-Catholic Christian, I worship the same God as my Catholic sibings. But that’s another issue.
 
Because my question had nothing to do with when the verse was revealed, and if there was a Muslim power on Earth at that time. I am curious as to what it says about Allah that He would supposedly challenge humanity to do something He and they both already know cannot happen. What is the point? Why would Allah do this?

I know you can answer “We cannot ask Allah why; Allah does things and we do not always understand them” or something like that, but regardless of whether or not you feel comfortable speculating on this, my point still stands that if this challenge were met Allah would be proven to be weaker than humanity, and hence not the One True God. So it seems very strange to me that Allah would issue such an adversarial challenge, the result of which is a foregone conclusion, but which at the same time tempts humanity into the ultimate hubris and disbelief. That sounds quite frankly more like something Satan would do, because in the Judaeo-Christian tradition based in Genesis it is Satan who tells humanity that if they are willing to do this which they know ahead of time (because God told them so) they are not to do, they can gain the wisdom and power of God. We all know how that turned out, so why does the God of Islam invite all of humanity to the same for basically no reason other than the fact that He knows ahead of time that they can’t meet His challenge? It makes no sense. It is inconsistent with the actions of The One True God. In fact, we do not really even need to speculate as to reasons why, since I’ll admit that we can never know. We need only ask ourselves: Why would God tempt humanity into the ultimate sin: Beliving that they are or can be greater than Him?

This is idea is actually what brought Satan into existence!
 
i meant that what we call “persons” in the Godhead are not seperate, whatever God does, the Trinity does because the Word and Spirit are not seperate, so Jesus says “whatver the Father does, the Son does likewise”. In other words, we explain the distinction between Father, Word and Spirit which is a distinction in position, we do not speak of seperation.
Well, if the distinction was a distinction of position, how could the son do as the father? It is supposed that each one has his position, otherwise, there is no distinction.
That verse you gave must be given in context:

Joh 5:19 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doeth, these the Son also doeth in like manner.

So its clear here that Jesus is just a follower of what God does, and the other verse proves it more:

Joh 5:30 I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

And this is also a prove that they have different wills, how could they be one God and have different wills?
Mat 26:39 And he went forward a little, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass away from me: nevertheless,** not as I will, but as thou wilt.
**
yes, in the sense that the Quran always existed as the eternal and uncreated Word of Allah. Do you believe Allah aquired His Word later when He was previously Wordless? this is simply what we mean by begotten Word, it simply means always existing.
The 2 words are mutually exclusive how could the word “begotten” mean “always existing”? Even when Theophilus wrote it he clearly tells that, and will adress it in its position.
not equal in position because the Father is the Font, however, it does not mean the Word is not equal in nature because the Word is the eternal Word/Reason of the Father. If you believe the Quran is eternal and uncreated yet not Allah, does it mean the Quran is another deity? no
Again, this is irrelevant, God’s Word is an attribute of Him, which is not your case as you say that it’s a distinct person, for example, I don’t say that my words are a different person in position who also has a different will than mine or that interact with it the way you do in your trinity? For example, how could they be one in nature when one of them sits on the right of the other?
But till now, we have a good approach, as it is proven that the Father is the main God.
this needs a thread on its own. If you are interested, open a thread because there are too many quotes. I for example gave you many passages from John where parallelism between the Wisdom and Logos/Word are drawn from both OT and NT.
This is not what I am talking about, I am talking about the human and divine natures, did Jesus say (or in other words understand) he had both natures? And how could we know whether he is acting with his divine or his human nature? We needn’t an independent thread, you can just give me one or two examples of these many quotes.
Jesus is the eternal Word incarnated as a man. Neither is God a man nor did Jesus become God.
🙂 A diplomatic answer, but this is not what I want. I need a yes/no answer. Is the human nature God or not?
But wait a minute, what do you mean by saying that Jesus didn’t become God?
The Bible uses human language to explain abstract ideas, just like Allah calls the Quran the “mother” of books but since this mother is eternal and uncreated, does not mean that it needed a husband to exist? does it meant it wasn’t eternal because a mother has a previous mother for it to exist? these are human words used to explain abstract ideas.
Well, the word mother is well known to have the meaning of leadership in many languages, while the word set up must mean that there is a subject and an object, that one wasn’t set up then he was, the Bible could have used other words which also used in many languages, for example it could have said " I was with God from the beginning". The same as using the word “pocessed” which means that the father owns the son.
read the bold parts to understand the conclusion. it means eternally begotten, eternally existing as the Mind of the Father.
It may mean eternally existing but it can’t mean eternally begotten as he mentioned begetting after this sentence, I have even read an early father before saying that God used to have the word in his belly, then when he wanted to create all things he begot him, but unfortunately, I couldn’t remember the source exactly.
depends on what you understand by the Law, and depends whether am a Jew born under the Mosaic law for Jews or a gentile asked to follow Jesus without converting to Judaism.
I don’t actually know where Jesus said so, he didn’t differentiate between a Jew and a gentile concerning this issue, this is Paul. But anyways, I will go with you till the end, if a Jew living now converted to Christianity, should he abide to the OT laws?
 
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Salaam/peace
…we have two different gods…
there is only one God – God of Adam , Abraham ,Moses , Jesus , Muhammed (peace be upon them all ) & all human being , Jinn , angels etc. Remember Jesus (p) also had the same God .

Sadly many people take other deity besides God. Muslims are free from committing this major sin …Alhamdulillah ( praise be to God only ).

That’s the main reason U should be a Muslim 🙂 , heaven is for those ( according to all major holy books ) who worship one God only & don’t bow down in front of other deity.
 
first, differences prove nothing because the Christian myth is different than the previous ones. Second, it is discredited as a widespread myth because many cultures had it, pagans, Jews, Christians even Plato ecc.
So you still didn’t give me the source of what you posted, and still you didn’t tell me who discredited it.
You say it is discredited because many cultures had it? many cultures have had the story of the flood of Noah (Peace be upon him) with different names, does this make it a myth? And many cultures had the concept of resurrection, will you consider it a myth?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_(mythology
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythography_of_Jesus_Christ
i adressed what preservation of God’s words mean to Christians.
What did you adress? Your fathers say that passages from Jeremiah, Esdras, and many prophetic writings were lost and not present in the current OT? Where did you adress that?
so you don’t have concrete evidence of people trying to meet the challenge and failing.

besides, the presence of Mormonism today is the ultimate proof that no one could prove it isn’t from God. Do you buy this logic?
Well, you are taking my argument out of context, I was speaking particularly about the Sura like it challenge. You are trying to generalize my evidence on everything.
many books proved the Mormon book is false yet Mormonism is here with millions of adherents so who is wrong? the Mormons or those who proved the book is false yet did not meet the Mormon challenge according to Mormons? so because Mormonism could not be suppressed and managed to survive despite attacks and people are astonished with it , it means Mormonism is from God?
Well, you must look at the whole picture, the mormons were not persecuted as Muslims were at the beginning of Islam, it is just a polemic, and in this case, if they were proven wrong, they may have had some other reasons to still believe what they believe as leadership or money or anything else, besides, it may have been the case that they didn’t find strong replies to their arguments, so they continued on. And both cases are not the case with the Quranic challenge, as people have no need to be persecuted for a belief they know it was proven false. And the Arabs were challenged in what they are well known to be superior in, and no one has their skills, so the mormon’s case doesn’t match with Islam.
in other words, Allah made a trick that deceived humans yet asks humans not to believe in a trick he made in the first place? how can humans not say it was Jesus if Allah put an appearance of Jesus infront of them, yet says they follow “conjecture”?
Well, not all people believed it was Jesus who was crucified, read the Gospel of Judas and Acts of Peter, you may consider them gnostic gospels, but the fact that they existed at an early age, at least in the second century if we took the testimony of Christian scholars as granted, I myself don’t see that the gospels date to a later age, so it’s clear that this issue had been a dispute since the beginning of Christianity, and this is what the Quran tells.
isn’t this conjecture what Allah made in the first place? and why would Allah kill a man in place of another? don’t you believe no one carries the burden of someone else?
God made this to save Jesus (Peace be upon him), didn’t He get the pharaoh to the sea and then drowned him, why don’t you call this a trick as well?
No one carries the burden of someone else, but God punishes people for their sins, and He accepts the right acts from the righteous if they sacrificed their life to save their Prophet’s life. This has nothing to do with carrying others’ sins which is what you exactly believe.
you answered by saying it was a miracle for the Jews. So i repeat my questions : what is this miracle that no Jew could have seen or witnessed or verified? what did Jesus have to be born as such and to prove what if no one could even see this miracle?
I answered that this miracle was shown by Jesus (Peace be upon him) speaking in his cradle, is this something normal? The Jews couldn’t have written it because they won’t have written an evidence against them, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, did the Jews record this?
Mat 27:51 And behold, the veil of the temple was rent in two from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake; and the rocks were rent;
Mat 27:52 and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised;
 
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Salaam/peace
… when you challenge me, you are the judge
I am asking you to show me a holy book or other book that has more than 6 thousands verses/ sentences & can be memorised by milllions . Why it’s so hard for you to give me the name of such book. Out of billion Christians in the earth , there could be some believers who have the whole Bible in memory , right ? Let me know about only one such person , thanks .
Have you got a Quranic passages to meet the challenge?
yap , each verse of Quran is superb 🙂 & meet the challenge . I am now giving only one verse here . Let me know if u like it . On the last day , in front of God Almighty , Jesus & his dear mom (p) will surely tell you they love this verse 🙂

Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God , nor the angels who are near ( to God) …holy Quran , Chapter Women , verse 172 ( 4: 172 )
 
This “association” business rubs me the wrong way. It is not “association” to say that Jesus Christ IS God, because being something is not the same as being associated with something. I am associated with this message board because I post here, and yet I am not this message board. We associate no “partners” with God, therefore we do not need to be Muslims in order to worship the One True God. We already do. Muhammad’s misunderstanding of the Trinity, which you have inherited from him, is an aside. It has no bearing on anything. We keep the same Trinity that is attested to when Jesus Christ Himself tells his Apostles to go forth and baptize all nations in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This is the Holy Trinity in its correct formula, the one that all Christians recognize (with the exception of the non-Trinitarian minority, who are heretical to all major orthodox, mainstream branches of the faith).

There is no association with God in Christianity, only God the Father, who is eternally possessed of Logos (incarnated in the person of Christ Jesus, Al-Masih!) and Spirit. To discount the Trinity is to remove one of these attributes and make God either wisdomless or spiritless, and we know that none of us would want to do that, right?

We all worship the One True God. You conceptualize Him in a different way than we do, because you are Muslims and we are not. If we are to meet in heaven, through the grace of God, I will try to act surprised to see you there. 🙂
 
killing innocent people isn’t the plan of God yet Cain killed his brother. Just because God allows something, it doesn’t mean it is His plan.
God cursed Cain for killing, while He didn’t condemn polygamy, but even when your Bible accuses David (Peace be upon him) of adultery, your god blamed him saying that if you wished other women I would have given you.

2Sa 12:8 and I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would have added unto thee such and such things.
When God created Adam, He created Eve, not a dozen , this is why Jesus says “in the beginning” when refering to marriage. When God had a plan for humanity, He created Adam and one companion Eve.
Didn’t you say that this was about divorce? You still didn’t answer me, if polygamy wasn’t God’s plan, why did He condone it?
Add to it that Allah allows polygamy, and Allah hates divorce, yet Allah allows what he hates in case of polygamy. A woman has a green card to do what Allah hates because her busband feels like having a second wife.
Well, there must be a strong reason for a woman to ask for divorce as being not fair with her or that he is a bad person, but polygamy itself is not a strong reason, she may feel annoyed for having a second wife, but she can get over it after some time unless he is not fair with her or prefers the other wife over her.
Add to it that when divorce and remarriage are easy, so lets say a man married 4, then divorced them one after another, them remarried other one after another, it becomes halal prostitution.
A marriage with a divorce intention is haram as it is a type of Mut’a which is forbidden, I mean that the marriage contract is right, but the action itself is a sin especially if he didn’t tell her, as the deceit sin will be also added.
no, if you sin is Allah sinful because he allowed you?
Again this is irrelevant, Allah condemned my sin in the Quran or in the Sunna, but God didn’t condemn Adam’s sons marrying from Adam’s daughters. What you are saying is totally irrelevant.
the Shia are applying what Muhammad once taught, and they have their proofs that it wasn’t abolished since even after Muhammad’s death it was practiced. Divorce and remarriage can be misused, polygamy can be misused, beating wives can be misused yet Allah did not abolish them but you are saying that even if the same conditions during Muhammad’s time arose, it is still forbidden…something is quite strange, morality-wise.
It was practiced after the Prophet’s death as it is not necessary that all people knew about it since it was forbidden at the end of the Prophet’s life, but after a while all people knew. The hadith is so clear that Mut’a is Haram.
As for misusing, the case of Mut’a is much difficult as misusing it will lead to much more problems which overwhelm its benefits while in case of divorce and polygamy, they may be misused, but still their benefits and importance overcomes problems coming from some misuses.
 
How is polygamy not inherently unfair to women, if the measure of the relative sinfulness or permissability of a marriage in Islam is fairness? It is a good goal, of course, but how can you meet it under such a system?

It is pretty hard to meet only with ONE person, isn’t it? 😉

Also, I do not see how it is not in essence prefering another (second, third) wife over the first, too. Is it not the husband saying to the one wife he already has “you are not enough”?

I think personally even if polygamy were allowed for Christians, I still would not want it. It seems inherently disordered, and a corruption of the sacredness by which two become one flesh in marriage.
 
can you please cite a source for the bold part?
because i know that:
Well, you are now talking about a different issue which is the difference between recitation, I thought you were talking about adding vowels to the Quranic text, these are two different subjects.

What you are talking about is the recitations, the case for recitations is that we admit them all as all were read by the Prophet (Peace be upon) him, and this was a matter of diversity of the Quranic verses to give more than one meaning with no contradictions between them, for example the first example:

139- Say to them, O Muhammad: «Do you dispute the definitive action Allah chooses for His message when He is Our Creator and we are all accountable for our deeds! Our hearts surge up and answer sincere thanks to Him».

140- **Or do you claim **that Ibrahim and Isma‘il, Ishak and Ya’qub and the Tribes were Jews or Christians when you know that AL-Tawrah and AL-Injil were sent down to Mussa and ‘Isa, founders of Judaism and Christianity? Do you know better than Allah, AL-Sami’ and AL-’Alim? Who is more wrongful than he who hides an attestation from Allah? Allah is not unaware of all you do.

The other reading is “do they say”, both can be applicable, as they are talking about the “People of the Book”, in the first case, God was continuing on the end of the first verse talking to the People of the Book, the other one He was talking to the Prophet (Peace be upon him) about what they were doing then He moved to the next point about what they (the People of the Book) say, then He answers them. No contradiction is present, and both cases could happen.

Another example could clear it more, God says in the Quran:
6- O you whose hearts have been touched with the divine hand: When you intend to perform your act of worship, ablution becomes a duty. Wash your faces , your hands and the forearms up to the elbows, and with your wet hands wipe your heads, then wash your feet to the ankles.

The word “feet” here is pronounced “arjulakum”, while in another reading “arjul**i****kum”, according to the Arabic grammar, the first will be referred to washing, while the second will be referred to wiping, so scholars took from the first reading that feet should be washed, and they took from the other reading that feet could be wiped when a man is wearing slippers or socks as the Sunna indicates.
This is what different readings are about. Can give more than one meaning but there are no contradictions.
who revealed the names written in the Quran?
Either Allah revealed them or that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) named them and Allah accepted them.
what does abrogation by recitation means?Suyuti himself asked the same logical question, he says:
Actually Assiuty answered this claim in these words, and may be he explained it more, but the source you copied from took it out of context.
Imam Malik recorded that `Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, stood up and praised and glorified Allah, then he said; "O people! Allah sent Muhammad with the truth, and revealed to him the Book. One of the things that was revealed to him was the Ayah of stoning to death, which we have recited and understood. The Messenger of Allah carried out the punishment of stoning and after him we did so, but I am afraid that as time goes by, some will say that they did not find the Ayah of stoning in the Book of Allah, and they will go astray because they abandoned one of the obligations revealed by Allah. Stoning is something that is prescribed in the Book of Allah for the person – man or woman – who commits illegal sex, if he or she is married, if decisive evidence is produced, or if pregnancy results from that, or if they confess to it.’'It was also recorded in the Two Sahihs in the lengthy Hadith of Malik, from which we have quoted briefly only the portion that is relevant to the current discussion. (Tafsir Ibn Kathir)

There was other narration for that hadith in Mosnad Ahmad where Umar says continuing on what he said before that people will come telling that intercession is not true as will as punishment in the graves which are already present in hadiths (people like these have already come). This is the same case since even if it was abrogated from the Quran, it is still present in the Sunna. So of course God has the full reason for that it actually seems that one of its reasons for that it is a test for us to know who will actually believe all what the Prophet (Peace be upon him) and take it even if it was abrogated from the Quran by recitation to know who really follows the Prophet (Peace be upon him) from those who don’t.
what belief do you want to read about? Jesus’ crucificion? divinity? the Trinity?
😃 So you posted all what above to reply a sentence in your post, while you left only one line for the main post?

Begin with anything you like, but don’t cite any source, unless you have its manuscripts dating to the first century (giving a link to it) and having evidence that the writer was really a follower of Jesus, or that you have a continuous external evidence from contemporary eyewitnesses known of their orthodoxy belief and have good skills to make sure that they weren’t illused and that their narrators have also the same specs and all chain is continuous (each narrator was proven to have seen his successor and predecessor).

Waiting for you**
 
Because my question had nothing to do with when the verse was revealed, and if there was a Muslim power on Earth at that time. I am curious as to what it says about Allah that He would supposedly challenge humanity to do something He and they both already know cannot happen. What is the point? Why would Allah do this?
Read the verse itself and you’ll know the reason for the challenge?

38- **Or do they say: «He Muhammad has forged it» Say to them: **«If you do believe I did, then produce one Surah the like thereof, and call on all those besides Allah whom you can possibly engage to venture upon this undertaking if indeed you are declaring the truth!»(Yunus)
 
Read the verse itself and you’ll know the reason for the challenge?

38- **Or do they say: «He Muhammad has forged it» Say to them: **«If you do believe I did, then produce one Surah the like thereof, and call on all those besides Allah whom you can possibly engage to venture upon this undertaking if indeed you are declaring the truth!»(Yunus)
Okay…so the difference is that if we read the entire verse we see that Allah is giving Muhammad the right to engage mankind in this crazy challenge? I don’t see how that’s any better or how that resolves the problem.

Besides, that phrasing (if I am understanding it correctly) belies false premises which further throw the passage in to doubt. They are asked to call upon all those besides Allah, the assumption being that Allah’s revealed truth is the Qur’an, so those wishing to challenge it cannot depend on Him in doing so (since that would be a logical impossibility). This is of course ridiculous, since the whole nature of the accusation against the Qur’an is that it is not from Allah in the first place. So why “call on all those besides Allah”? Because it starts from the presupposition that the Qur’an is from Allah! Again we have the problem that the conditions of the challenge make its outcome a foregone conclusion, so whether or not it is “met” (and, as inJESUS points out, on whose authority that is decided) is entirely meaningless.
 
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