Why should I become a Muslim, and why you should become a Christian.

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Muslim_Woman said:
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Salaam/ Peace
inJESUS;4534993:
by the men made laws , Muslim men can’t have more than one wife now a days in many countries. Divorce process is very lengthy & expensive. Also many persons are reluctant to maintain proper hijab ( in clothes & in acts ). These could be the reasons some or many Muslims are committing adultery. If we all obeserve the commands of God given in Quran like lowering the gaze & guard modesty , there will be no such major sin .
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even in the strictist countries, Muslim with all their laws still commit adultery that’s because someoe who doesn’t want to follow the law will not follow it even if the law pampers some of his lust. So just because a Muslim can have 4 women, it doesn’t mean he will fornicate no more.
I asked this question earlier , asking again. Do u know any gay Imam ? Have u ever heard any Imam conducted marraige of a gay copuple ?
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did i ever say it is restricted to Imams? and where did i mentioned gay marriages?
Non-Muslims love to say that Muslim women are oppressed , men are killing the rape victims by stoning , they can’t come out of home alone etc etc & on the other hand , you are saying Muslim women are enjoying illegal sex inside the cars ?
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because of oppression, Saudi women do what they do- so no matter how strict laws you put, those who want to break them will break them, but will be very careful not to be caught.

have you ever wondered what wonders an “unknown” veiled woman can do?

so just telling me Islamic law makes a country a utopea is wishful thinking if people don’t want to follow, and there are always people who do not want to follow, and there will always be homosexuals and adulters and what have you of sins because the law does not abolish sin if people decide not to follow it. There is law because people are sinful. I haven’t seen people more corrupt and hypocrite than the Saudis (not all obviously), inside and outside their kingdom. The Law did not make them better people.
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dzheremi said:
You indeed can, but this is a qualitatively different question. Miracles are cooperative (raising of the dead, healing of the sick, or even in the sense of strengthening of the faith, as in the miracle of the Holy Fire, in the Eastern Orthodox tradition; all of these things that draw humans closer to God). They are to reveal to those who see them the mystery of God’s great power in their lives and over all creation. What is cooperative about Allah’s challenge to humanity to out-do Him? Should they even attempt it?
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And that challenge to prove Allah’s great powerto those who hear the Quran and know its rhetorical miracle, that challenge was made in the MECCAN period, where there was no Islamic power so that you won’t say that Islam supressed any attempt to the challenge, and still no one could meet it.
 
and still no one could meet the challenge. Ok, who tried and who was the judge? after all, Allah says you cannot meet it, so which Muslim will actually say it is met unless he is an apostate? and i will give you the same challenge regarding the Bible, and i am the judge. Fair enough, no?

Dzheremi, good insights.
 
InJesus
Wait till I finish my reply, then reply so that we have an organised discussion
 
inJESUS said:
Muslim believe that the Quran is exactly what Allah uttered, nothing added or retrived. In other words, it is as if Allah dropped a book from heaven written by himself and no man was able to add or retrieve anything. I don’t know if the marks added to the non-marked old Arabic texts are exactly what Allah uttered, i don’t know if the names of the chapters were chosen by Allah himself, and i don’t know if Allah intended to gather his sayings according to lengh and not theme, i don’t know why the stoning verse is not in the Quran, but nevertheless, Muslims believe the Quran to be the masterpiece of Allah as He uttered and intended to be with nothing added or retrieved that is why it is preserved.
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The marks were added for the non Arabs who were still weak in Arabic, so these marks were added to help them, otherwise, the Quran before it is not just a textbook, it’s a recitation. The names of the chapter have nothing to do with the chapters themselves. As for the stoning verse, this is a type of abrogation by recitation while the law is not abrogated, otherwise the verse is present in the Sunna and authentic hadiths.
inJESUS said:
In other words, Muslims can attack whatver they want in the Bible or it’s canonization or translation, but Muslims cannot attack the faith of the apostles and their disciples throughout the different churches they established. In other words, Muslims must attack the belief of the Church before the Bible because the Church gave us the preserved teachings, it was not the Bible that gave us the church.
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So please give me the evidence for your first century church and that it refers to the apostles not to heretic sects? I can prove to you that many early fathers adopted heretic opinions.
 
Ibn_Taymiya said:
so you don’t have concrete evidence of people trying to meet the challenge and failing.

besides, the presence of Mormonism today is the ultimate proof that no one could prove it isn’t from God. Do you buy this logic?
The Arabs didn’t try to meet the challenge as they were already astonished with it, and if they could have met it, they would have suppressed Islam from the beginning.
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many books proved the Mormon book is false yet Mormonism is here with millions of adherents so who is wrong? the Mormons or those who proved the book is false yet did not meet the Mormon challenge according to Mormons? so because Mormonism could not be suppressed and managed to survive despite attacks and people are astonished with it , it means Mormonism is from God? after all, like Muhammad, Smith claimed a visitation by an angel and brought a book so your arguments are the same ones used by Mormons- how is that for subjective criteria based on human wisdom? after all, what Muhammad did, Smith and Bahaullah did and all 3 have millions of followers who believe the book is “miraculous”.
If you answered these questions, then my criteria are not valid, if you didn’t, then you need an evidence to invalidate my criteria.
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your answers apply to Mormonism. Can you answer them?
The crucifixion of a man whom God put the appearance of Jesus on him not Jesus himself.
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in other words, Allah made a trick that deceived humans yet asks humans not to believe in a trick he made in the first place? how can humans not say it was Jesus if Allah put an appearance of Jesus infront of them, yet says they follow “conjecture”? isn’t this conjecture what Allah made in the first place? and why would Allah kill a man in place of another? don’t you believe no one carries the burden of someone else?
You are just repeating your argument. I have already answered it before.
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you answered by saying it was a miracle for the Jews. So i repeat my questions : what is this miracle that no Jew could have seen or witnessed or verified? what did Jesus have to be born as such and to prove what if no one could even see this miracle?
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Ibn_Taymiya said:
You said that polygamy wasn’t the plan of God, yet God changed His plan by allowing it to Abraham and Israel.
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killing innocent people isn’t the plan of God yet Cain killed his brother. Just because God allows something, it doesn’t mean it is His plan. The Bible mentions many cases of polygamy, and its consequences just like it mentions other things and their consequences.
The Bible is the history of God with His people with its good and bad. It is a progressive history with progressive revelations with progresive understanding of man till fulfillment. Even you as a Muslim know that it took Allah 3 verses to abolish alcohol when it wasn’t abolished previously .

When God created Adam, He created Eve, not a dozen , this is why Jesus says “in the beginning” when refering to marriage. When God had a plan for humanity, He created Adam and one companion Eve.

Add to it that Allah allows polygamy, and Allah hates divorce, yet Allah allows what he hates in case of polygamy. A woman has a green card to do what Allah *hates *because her busband feels like having a second wife. Add to it that when divorce and remarriage are easy, so lets say a man married 4, then divorced them one after another, them remarried other one after another, it becomes halal prostitution. I’m not saying every Muslim is like this, but Islamic marriage compared to Christianity is a cheap contract.
So you are calling your god a murderer?
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no, if you sin is Allah sinful because he allowed you?
No it is forbidden till the Hereafter. Of course God knows the complete reason for that, but I think this was because God knew that people will misuse it and you can see the Shii communities nowadays and understand what I mean.
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the Shia are applying what Muhammad once taught, and they have their proofs that it wasn’t abolished since even after Muhammad’s death it was practiced. Divorce and remarriage can be misused, polygamy can be misused, beating wives can be misused yet Allah did not abolish them but you are saying that even if the same conditions during Muhammad’s time arose, it is still forbidden…something is quite strange, morality-wise.
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Ibn_Taymiya said:
The marks were added for the non Arabs who were still weak in Arabic

, so these marks were added to help them, otherwise, the Quran before it is not just a textbook, it’s a recitation. can you please cite a source for the bold part?
because i know that:

ertain variant readings existed and, indeed, persisted and increased as the Companions who had memorised the text died, and because the inchoate (basic) Arabic script, lacking vowel signs and even necessary diacriticals to distinguish between certain consonants, was inadequate. … In the 4th Islamic century, it was decided to have recourse (to return) to “readings” (qira’at) handed down from seven authoritative “readers” (qurra’)

He will say ** : “What number of years did ye stay on earth?” Surah 23:112.

Yusuf Ali : ** Note 2948: The usual Indian reading is “Qala”, “He will say”. This follows the Kufa Qiraat. The Basra Qiraat reads “Qul”, “Say” (in the imperative). The point is only one of grammatical construction. See n. 2666 to xxi. 4.

Qala is different from Qul.

Some comparison between Hafs and Warsh recitations:

surah 2:140 taquluna (you say) but according to Warsh reading it is 2:139: Yaquluna (they say)

surah 3:81 (ataytukum), In Warsh it is 3:80 (ataynakum)

surah 2:259 (nunshizuhaa), in Warsh it is surah 2:258 (nunshiruhaa).

surah 2:10 (yakdhibuuna),in Warsh it is 2:9 (yukadhdhibuuna)

The oral transmission was not the same and the meaning is different.

Subhii al-Saalih ,an Islamic scholar , summarizes the differences into seven categories.

Differences in grammatical indicator (i`raab).
Differences in consonants.
Differences in nouns as to whether they are singular, dual, plural, masculine or feminine.
Differences in which there is a substitution of one word for another.
Differences due to reversal of word order in expressions where the reversal is meaningful in the Arabic language in general or in the structure of the expression in particular.
Differences due to some small addition or deletion in accordance with the custom of the Arabs.
Differences due to dialectical peculiarities.

Subhii al-Saalih, Muhaahith fii Ulum al-Qur'aan, Beirut: Daar al-Ilm li al-Malaayiin, 1967, pp. 109ff

How do you know exactly which Qiraat is the one Allah literally uttered? which one is on the preserved tablet?

So when a muslim says:
The astonishing fact about this book of ALLAH is that it has remained unchanged, even to a dot, over the last fourteen hundred years. … No variation of text can be found in it.

What do we tell him?check the different Qurans?

Today, there are two Quranic Arabic texts, Hafs and Warsh. This number is down from the 7 recitations, where are the 5 others if they were considered the literal words of Allah? or exactly, which Quran did Allah actually preserve?
The names of the chapter have nothing to do with the chapters themselves.
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Salaam/ Peace

#62 inJESUS :
did i ever say it is restricted to Imams? and where did i mentioned gay marriages?
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May be , u did not mention but I am asking - how many gay priests , gay couples do Chistians have ? How many gay Imams , gay couples Muslims have ?
Saudi women do what they do- …
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aha , Saudi women are now trying to beat western women in free life style & already beat their opponents in having more love kids ? Woww , that’s a new news. Can you give me a statistics how many babies are there in Saudi Arab out of marriages ?
I haven’t seen people more corrupt and hypocrite than the Saudis
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U travelled all around the world & came to this conclusion ?
 
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Salaam/ Peace
inJESUS said:
and still no one could meet the challenge. Ok, who tried and who was the judge? …
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wrote this more than once . Quran is memorised by million people ; is there any single Christian who memorised his/her holy bible ?

Pl. don’t say I know a person or my aunt/ uncle memorised it …prove it. Quran memorising competition regularly held in many Muslim majority countries. Anyone can go to to those competition to see if really participants are reciting from memory or not. Also , Imams recite the whole Quran from memory during holy Ramadan in Tarabi prayer.

Take help of all human being , use the latest technology ; write a holy book that has more than 6 thousands verses & can be memorised by millions .
 
you beat me to it…how so shallow are some reasons to believe in the Quran…miraculous language, divine poetry, outstanding memorization…

Muslim Woman, the challenge put by the Quran is not about memorizing it.

I want you please to find me one Quranic passage better than the Sermon of the Mount in the NT and i am the judge.
 
Why you should become a Christian?

The wages of sin is death, enmity with God, and eternal punishment and wrath. We are commanded by God to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for reconcilation with God. Through our vital union with Christ, we have peace with God and are adopted into the family of God. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. So as Muslims, who will pay the wages of your sins since you deny the bibilcal Jesus Christ? Who is your savior and Lord? Jesus Christ is the basis for my entrance into the kingdom of God. On what basis will your God allow you into His eternal kingdom?

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” Romans 1:16-17
 
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