Why should Mary be a stumbling block!

[Good_Daughter]

“The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.” (Jas 5:16)

Who is more righteous than Mary (or any of the Saints already in heaven)? The peace I have experienced in joining my prayers to theirs, all through Jesus’ name, is beyond understanding.

 

[Mannyfit75]

evangelicals believe that if 2 or 3 gathers in his name, then surely jesus is there with them. thats how they get their ‘feel-good-hour’. thats how they boost their spirituality.

Catholics believe that too.

Jesus is more personal to them because they go to him directly all the time. They dont need anybody’s saintly backup.

I don’t know how you could say that receiving the Body, and Blood of Lord into your mouth cannot be anything personal. My friend, Catholics believe in the Real Presence. At Mass, we received the Lord Jesus Christ himself, and it is PERSONAL. Must I repeat what I have already told you.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Catholics believe that too.

of course. but evangelicals take it more seriously.

I don’t know how you could say that receiving the Body, and Blood of Lord into your mouth cannot be anything personal. My friend, Catholics believe in the Real Presence. At Mass, we received the Lord Jesus Christ himself, and it is PERSONAL. Must I repeat what I have already told you.

if jesus is that personal to you, then what do you need mary for?

i think eating jesus just places him into your stomach. though evangelicals dont eat jesus, he is still closer to their hearts. thats why they dont need any saints’ help.

 

[Mannyfit75]

of course. but evangelicals take it more seriously.

I would say both do take their relationship with Jesus seriously. Second, devote Catholics are also Evangelical Christians. Protestants just hijack that word. Catholics are in fact the first Christians.

I don’t even know how you make such a the case that they take it seriously. Do you assume to know the hearts and mind of a Catholic? Tell me do you know mine?

If jesus is that personal to you, then what do you need mary for?

i think eating jesus just places him into your stomach. though evangelicals dont eat jesus, he is still closer to their hearts. thats why they dont need any saints’ help.

Jesus commanded us to do so. I also like to point out that **some Evangelical Christian **Protestants do believe in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ.

I know several Protestants who believe in it. One of them is an Methodist.

He also said the following:

Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 55 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day

56 For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. 57 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. 58 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. 59 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever. 60 These things he said, teaching in the synagogue, in Capharnaum. -John 6:54-60

Catholics go to Mary because of her relationship to her son. When do they pray to her like the rosary it is never without God. In the rosary, the Our Father is said in addition with the Apostle Creed, the Glory Be, the Fatima Prayer which states, "Oh, My Jesus Forgive us Our Sins. Save us from the Fires of Hell and lead all souls into heaven. Amen."

God is never negated when praying to Mary. I have repeated this many times on this thread.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Do you assume to know the hearts and mind of a Catholic? Tell me do you know mine?

all i know is that actions speak louder than words. evangelicals always go directly to jesus. catholics always take the indirect approach. its only logical, evangelicals have a stronger relationship with jesus. catholics have a stroner relationship with mary.

Catholics go to Mary because of her relationship to her son.

yeah i know, you see her as an intercessor to jesus. thats what ive been meaning by ‘indirect’.

In the rosary, the Our Father is said in addition with the Apostle Creed, the Glory Be, the Fatima Prayer which states, "Oh, My Jesus Forgive us Our Sins. Save us from the Fires of Hell and lead all souls into heaven. Amen."

i know, i used to pray the rosary too. i know by heart that with the rosary you approach mary more … a lot lot more!

 

[Mannyfit75]

all i know is that actions speak louder than words. evangelicals always go directly to jesus. catholics always take the indirect approach. its only logical, evangelicals have a stronger relationship with jesus. catholics have a stroner relationship with mary.

You go by what others do in their practice. Tell me does Pope Benedict XVI preach about Jesus nor Mary more? I think his last two books deal with God is Love, and his second Book, Jesus of Nazareth. You are still going by the assumption of what you believe Catholics seem to do.

They Jesus first. They love Mary also because of Jesus.

yeah i know, you see her as an intercessor to jesus. thats what ive been meaning by ‘indirect’.

I see Christians as whole as a community of intercessors. How many Christians do prayer request. We are in this in a long run, my friend. Mary just happen to be a part of the community of intercessors.

i know, i used to pray the rosary too. i know by heart that with the rosary you approach mary more … a lot lot more!

Really. The Mysterious of the Rosary contains the mystery of the Life of Jesus Christ.

The Glorious Mysterious speaks about Jesus Victory over death, by his Resurrection, His Glorious Ascension, the Descent of Holy Spirit upon the Apostle, the Mary’s Assumption, and Queenship into heaven by her Son.

The Joyful Mysterious covers the Annunciation of Gabriel to Mary (that she will become the Mother of the Messiah), The visitation of Mary, the Birth of Jesus, the Finding of Jesus at the Temple.

Then we have the Luminous Mysterious, this cover Baptism of Jesus, the Wedding Feast in Cana, the Proclamation of the Kingdom of Heaven, and the Last Supper or institution of the Blessed Eucharist.

Then we have the Sorrowful Mysterious, this covers Jesus scourging at the Pillar, Crowning with thorns, Jesus Carrying His Cross, Jesus crucifixion.

In all the Mysterious 16 mysterious are focus on Christ. While 4 Mysterious are about Mary.

You may have pray the rosary but it is apparent you are missing the major points of the mediative prayer.

 

[elvisman]

Then i would just say that

• evangelicals have a better relationship with jesus.
• catholics have a better relationship with mary.

im sure we could agree on this.

**Face it - you’re afraid of her - you and Daniel Marsh. You both resent her because i****t upsets you that God saved her at conception; whereas you have to go the distance - “endure to the end”, as it were. **
What’s more, you don’t - or refuse - to understand that God can do anything he wants. He is not subject to YOUR will.
Game - Set - Match.

PS - Leave your gay references about St. Joseph in the gutter - where they belong.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Face it - you’re afraid of her - you and Daniel Marsh.

Who the hell is Daniel Marsh. All I know is Daniel Cooke.

PS - Leave your gay references about St. Joseph in the gutter - where they belong.

I’d rather think he had a carpentry accident that turned him into a Eunuch.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Who the hell is Daniel Marsh. All I know is Daniel Cooke.

Daniel Marsh another Catholic Answer Forum Member here. I would watch your typing carefully by calling Daniel Marsh, “who the hell?” Where is your charity my friend? I think Dan would be upset by your own words.

 

[AgnosTheist]

You go by what others do in their practice. Tell me does Pope Benedict XVI preach about Jesus nor Mary more?

Ratzinger? I really dont know much about him except that he tried to insult Islam and was cowered into making excuses. I almost admired him. Oh well.

You are still going by the assumption of what you believe Catholics seem to do.

just talking from experience, dude. yeah i know, you would probably say i was an ignorant catholic. makes little difference.

I see Christians as whole as a community of intercessors. How many Christians do prayer request. We are in this in a long run, my friend. Mary just happen to be a part of the community of intercessors.

well thats true. still, the heavenly saints add up.

The Glorious Mysterious speaks about Jesus Victory over death, by his Resurrection, His Glorious Ascension, the Descent of Holy Spirit upon the Apostle, the Mary’s Assumption, and Queenship into heaven by her Son.

yeah i know, and for each mystery how many prayers were directed to god and how many goes to mary?

You may have pray the rosary but it is apparent you are missing the major points of the mediative prayer.

yeah, i never really did take any of the hundred or so rosaries I said seriously. everytime i tried to, i got dead bored by the time i got mid way. its gonna be over soon, its gonna be over soon, was the mantra that went into my head while my lips mechanically recited the hail maries.

and those novenas, oh my god. what a waste of time.

 

[Jordan_Francis]

Agnos Theist:

and those novenas, oh my god. what a waste of time.

Anything is a waste of time with the wrong attitude.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Anything is a waste of time with the wrong attitude.

we had that in catholic school. every wednesday. if only we rather used the time to study calculus!

 

[Jordan_Francis]

Did you not do well in calculus?

 

[AgnosTheist]

Did you not do well in calculus?

i did. just making a point that there were better uses for our school hours.

anyway thats how marian devotion became a stumbling block for me. it bored me to no end.

 

[Jordan_Francis]

I would think its hardly an unreasonable expectation to devote time to prayer in a Catholic school. Catholicism is meant to permeate every aspect of one’s life.

And, as I said, anything is a waste of time with the wrong attitude. Marian devotion is not boring to the devoted, so the point is not very well made. Would you find Marian devotion more engaging if we said the Hail Mary to the background of an electric guitar? I doubt it, because you disagree with it on a theological premise.

 

[AgnosTheist]

I would think its hardly an unreasonable expectation to devote time to prayer in a Catholic school. Catholicism is meant to permeate every aspect of one’s life.

regular prayers i had no problem with. but 2 hours each week, marching into the church and doing novenas. damn.

And, as I said, anything is a waste of time with the wrong attitude.

anything can be justified by a ‘proper attitude’. even suicide bombing. thats why i cannot buy into that excuse.

Marian devotion is not boring to the devoted, so the point is not very well made.

i agree. but our filipino catholic culture shoves devotion into kids throats.

 

[Jordan_Francis]

I wish my Canadian Catholic school had shoved devotion down my throat. We should have switched places.

 

[AgnosTheist]

I wish my Canadian Catholic school had shoved devotion down my throat. We should have switched places.

 

[AgnosTheist]

hey, its not just the school, okay. We used to live with my grand parents. Each night, EACH NIGHT! we had to do say the rosary!

 

[nognatstrainer]

I just don’t get it!

Mary said to the servants at the Wedding Feast of Cana,“Do what ever HE tells you”. Sounds to me like she was instructing those servants to be obedient to Jesus.

I guess what I am having a hard time understanding is, if having a devotional love for Mary leads us to a greater Love and Worship of our Lord and Saviour, why is this a problem for non Catholics to understand?

If by following her advice from scripture, we “Do what ever HE tells us”,why is our devotion to Mary as an intercessor rejected as being wrong? Did she not tell us to follow her Son?

Mary showed us by her example to always say YES to God, to trust in Him and believe that what He says is true. When I have doubts, I turn to Mary and her examples of unwavering faith as a model for me to follow.

If one chooses to always go directly to God in all prayer, never asking the Saints and Angels and most our Lady to join you in prayers, that is fine for you, but if we as Catholics choose to enlist the aid of ALL Saints and Angels in heaven (who only do the will of God) why should that be a problem for you?

Jesus is the Only mediator between us and the Father, this we all agree upon, but we as Catholic also believe that God has given us many Saints who share our journey with us and are there to help us, to intercede for us to Jesus.

God bless all on your journeys toward heaven and I pray that you do the same for me.

It’s simple.

They are straining the gnat (Mary, Saints, eucharist, etc) and swallowing the camel (abortion, artificial birth control, divorce and remarriage, etc.)