Why slam protestants?

[ndeparis88]

Yeah I found that pretty insulting.

Calling others heretics or telling them they are going to hell (which is essentially what being a heretic means) is just not cool, and doesn’t make anyone want to leanr more about your church.

Also we are in a world where Christianity is rapidly becomeing a persexuted religon espeically the more conservative and high litergical denominations. It woud behove us to stand together rather than get catty amoungst ourselves. We are going to need each other to stand together in the future.

Not to mention the anti protestant attitude is really off putting to spouse of Catholics who are protestants. (myself included in that group) Considering somewhere between 35-45% of Catholics are married to non Catholics…that’s a lot of spouses to alienate. It is one of the main reasons I hold my husband to the promise he made me when we married and he was non practicing (we have since gone thru radical sanation)…The kids are being raised Lutheran.

I know now that the Church is not doing the condemnation thing, I feel like they are more trying to be out with their arms open and try to guide. But I agree that we will need to stand together in the future. I think that most people who are Catholics don’t do the real teachings justice because they have such short fuses these days. it goes the same way for other Christian denominations, people in general really. If we were just more welcoming as an introduction people would want to go a read the next chapter.

 

[Barbkw]

I listen to Bott Radio so that I can get some kind of idea about how protestantism works today, what each believe, etc.

It’s very helpful to be an RCIA sponsor so that you have an opportunity to see the mix of converts inside of a classroom. Many many Catholics were once members of protestant denominations. Many marry Catholics and convert.

It’s also been very helpful to me to attend a Compendium of the Catholic Church course at our parish. It’s a short course on the Catechism (and the Catechism has a lot to say about the Sacraments).

Which by in large, due to the Reformation and the rejection of the ordained priesthood, many protestant denominations then ended participation in the majority of Sacraments.

Understanding protestantism (as little as I do) has helped me to become a better Catholic.

 

[blanc10]

I refuse to slam protestants. They’ll believe what they want to believe and Catholics will believe in what they want to believe. I have no problem with that we can agree to disagree with each other, but we do have one thing in common: We believe in god and we love god and that my friends, is a good thing

 

[WFS5801]

Do you mean like this:

Valentino:
“If you were brought up baptist,or Lutheran what would you preach?”

Ajpirc:
"Heresy"

There are many people who know how to “be” Catholic but sadly have no idea what it means to be a Christian. Some of it could be due to a long history of persecution and discrimination against Catholics; some of it could be due to how people were raised and what they heard their parents do and say about other faiths. I think a lot of it may be because many Catholics really don’t know what the Church teaches. They think the pronouncements and attitudes of Medieval and Reformation era Popes about non-Catholics still apply today. Many would be shocked if they learned what the Church now teaches about the relationship between the Catholic church and Protestant churches and how much that has changed in the past 60 years.

Mostly it is a failure to follow Jesus by people on both sides.

Heresy is dogmatically defined. It means something specific. It’s a clinical term. Protestants (all Protestants) attend heretical churches. Does that mean they’re generally bad people? No. But it does no good to pretend that Protestant churches are something like “Catholic Lite.” Truth is truth, whether taught by the “Medieval and Reformation era Popes” or by modern Catholics. Or do you think the “Medieval and Reformation era Popes” erred in their dogmatic pronouncements?

If I go to the doctor and ask him specifically what is wrong with me, it doesn’t do me any good to have him tell me that I have a “little boo boo” and maybe it’ll get better if I ignore it. I need to know specifically what is wrong and what treatments may work to cure it – or what surgery is necessary. I think some Catholics shy away from the truth because they don’t want to offend anyone. That’s like a doctor not saying what’s wrong with you because he doesn’t want to scare you. Christ didn’t found thousand of sects, he founded One, True, Catholic and Apostolic Church. We can have charity for those in Protestantism, but we can not have charity for the heretical doctrines of Protestantism. That is compromising the truth.

If this makes me sound like one of the “Medieval and Reformation era Popes” so be it. I would rather be in their company than with Modernists who seem to be ashamed of the eternal truths of their own Church.

Pope St. Pius X wrote on this subject:

Here it is well to note at once that, given this doctrine of experience united with the other doctrine of symbolism, every religion, even that of paganism, must be held to be true. What is to prevent such experiences from being met within every religion? In fact that they are to be found is asserted by not a few. And with what right will Modernists deny the truth of an experience affirmed by a follower of Islam? With what right can they claim true experiences for Catholics alone? Indeed Modernists do not deny but actually admit, some confusedly, others in the most open manner, that all religions are true… Now the religious sentiment, although it may be more perfect or less perfect, is always one and the same; and the intellectual formula, in order to be true, has but to respond to the religious sentiment and to the Believer, whatever be the intellectual capacity of the latter. In the conflict between different religions, the most that Modernists can maintain is that the Catholic has more truth because it is more living and that it deserves with more reason the name of Christian because it corresponds more fully with the origins of Christianity.

vatican.va/holy_father/pius_x/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-x_enc_19070908_pascendi-dominici-gregis_en.html

 

[Barbkw]

I think some Catholics shy away from the truth because they don’t want to offend anyone. That’s like a doctor not saying what’s wrong with you because he doesn’t want to scare you.

No, it’s not like going to a doctor. When you go to a doctor, you already realize that something in you is broken or not working properly.

It’s a different situation, should a person from a protestant denomination come to you and ask for an explaination of what they are missing from their faith. And what Catholicism can add to their connection with Jesus.

 

[steve_b]

It seems that people really have a distaste for protestants on this board. I’m not trying troll or be funny since this is a Catholic board, but I’ve seen a number of posts that argue that we don’t do things, because it is too protestant.

I’m interested in thoughtful responses as to WHY some posts are at best patronizing and at the very worst hateful toward protestantism.

A response like “We’re Catholic” is neither informative nor welcomed.

I’ve found over the years, the vast majority of Catholic posters here, are charitable to those seperated from us, and truly try and explaing the faith in a polite manner.

 

[Theophorus]

Some very good responses so far.

I don’t post a lot, but read what others are posting. I have been following the music threads recently (having to do with Gregorian Chant) and some of the posts about protestant music got me thinking about the topic.

One of the ideas that seems to cause strife is the role of the congregation in divine worship. The role of the congregation changed significantly after Vat. II and I think it is a good change. I also love the extraordinary form of the mass, think it was a mistake for it to “disappear” for a few decades and think it needs to continue to become more prevalent.

The concern I have is that some refer to the ordinary form as being too “protestant.” We actually have to sing? We have to respond? We have to participate in a way that others can see?

I think the additions of some more “protestant” elements isn’t necessarily a bad thing and pushing us out of our comfort zones may be good good thing.

Its not the singing or the responding that that was considered “to protestant” rather some of the changes in emphasis in certain aspects of the Mass that was objected to by some parties. In addition several of the texts chosen, at least in the English speaking world, were those already used by several protestant denomination Congregational singing and responses existed before VII. So that particular gripe about being to protestant is not without foundation.

 

[FAB]

Some very good responses so far.

I don’t post a lot, but read what others are posting. I have been following the music threads recently (having to do with Gregorian Chant) and some of the posts about protestant music got me thinking about the topic.

One of the ideas that seems to cause strife is the role of the congregation in divine worship. The role of the congregation changed significantly after Vat. II and I think it is a good change. I also love the extraordinary form of the mass, think it was a mistake for it to “disappear” for a few decades and think it needs to continue to become more prevalent.

The concern I have is that some refer to the ordinary form as being too “protestant.” We actually have to sing? We have to respond? We have to participate in a way that others can see?

I think the additions of some more “protestant” elements isn’t necessarily a bad thing and pushing us out of our comfort zones may be good good thing.

I never have quite understood how our mass is some how to to protestant. I don’t know a protestant church that first celebrates and hears the word of God in full verse and not short segments, nor do they have the Euchaist.
Upbeat songs nad venacular liturgy, protestant, does not make us.

 

[ajpirc]

I never have quite understood how our mass is some how to to protestant. I don’t know a protestant church that first celebrates and hears the word of God in full verse and not short segments, nor do they have the Euchaist.
Upbeat songs nad venacular liturgy, protestant, does not make us.

But the music in today’s Mass doesn’t sound very Catholic. Chant would be more sacred at Mass.

 

[Alix1912]

I never have quite understood how our mass is some how to to protestant. I don’t know a protestant church that first celebrates and hears the word of God in full verse and not short segments, nor do they have the Euchaist.
Upbeat songs nad venacular liturgy, protestant, does not make us.

Anglicans have the Eucharist and actually call it that, Lutherans also believe in the real presence. Most high litergical use almost the EXACT same resading schedule of the Catholic Church and do do readings during EACH service as well.

But hey thanks for proving the Catholics love to lump all protestant’s together point.

 

[Barbkw]

Anglicans have the Eucharist and actually call it that, Lutherans also believe in the real presence.

You’re overgeneralizing a bit on Lutherans believing the Real Presence.

I have friends who are Missouri Synod Lutherans and they don’t believe in the Real Presence at all.

 

[ajpirc]

Lutherans also believe in the real presence.

Is consubstantiation the Real Presence? I thought it was only bread with Christ spiritually in it.

 

[Alix1912]

You’re overgeneralizing a bit on Lutherans believing the Real Presence.

I have friends who are Missouri Synod Lutherans and they don’t believe in the Real Presence at all.

Then sadly they are out of step with the teaching of the synod.

Is consubstantiation the Real Presence? I thought it was only bread with Christ spiritually in it.

lcms.org/Document.fdoc?src=lcm&id=1088

Basically we do believe in the real presence. It is his body and blood, we do not understand how it is his body and blood, yet retains the look and taste of the physical elements, but as the above docunment states.

“We do not try to explain how Jesus is present under the
bread and wine of the Lord’s Supper,rather we believe,teach,
confess and rejoice that He is present.We Lutherans let the words
of Jesus stand without arguing about their possibility,or trying
to explain how they are true.As Luther put it so clearly,“We
maintain that the bread and the wine in the Supper are the true
body and blood of Christ”(SA III.6).Everyone who communes
receives into their mouths the body and blood of Jesus Christ,
whether they believe it or not,be they worthy or unworthy.”

Seems to indicate a belief in the Real Presence to me.

Our services are actually really similar to the Catholic Service, and ironically I think my church has more traditional music than my husband’s parrish.

 

[Barbkw]

Alex,

Thanks for the reply. I read a Lutheran Catechism to my friends (because to me it sounded like Luther was talking “Real Presence”) however, it in no way changed their opinion.

 

[Alix1912]

Alex,

Thanks for the reply. I read a Lutheran Catechism to my friends (because to me it sounded like Luther was talking “Real Presence”) however, it in no way changed their opinion.

Unfortunately just as there are Catholics and Catholic Groups and Priest etc that do not follow your church’s stated doctrine, there are Lutherans who do the same thing in each synod.

 

[ajpirc]

Basically we do believe in the real presence. It is his body and blood, we do not understand how it is his body and blood, yet retains the look and taste of the physical elements, but as the above docunment states.

“We do not try to explain how Jesus is present under the
bread and wine of the Lord’s Supper,rather we believe,teach,
confess and rejoice that He is present.We Lutherans let the words
of Jesus stand without arguing about their possibility,or trying
to explain how they are true.As Luther put it so clearly,“We
maintain that the bread and the wine in the Supper are the true
body and blood of Christ”(SA III.6).Everyone who communes
receives into their mouths the body and blood of Jesus Christ,
whether they believe it or not,be they worthy or unworthy.”

Seems to indicate a belief in the Real Presence to me.

So what’s the difference between consubstantiation and transubstantiation? They sound pretty much the same.

 

[Alix1912]

So what’s the difference between consubstantiation and transubstantiation? They sound pretty much the same.

I’m not sure…most Lutherans don;t think there is a difference, but Catholics do think there is. You are probably better off asking an apologist on this. Me personally…I’m never going to understand the metaphysics and that is what makes it a mystery and a miracle, and I’m good with that.

I figure I’ll understand it when I get to heaven.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

It seems that people really have a distaste for protestants on this board. I’m not trying troll or be funny since this is a Catholic board, but I’ve seen a number of posts that argue that we don’t do things, because it is too protestant.

I’m interested in thoughtful responses as to WHY some posts are at best patronizing and at the very worst hateful toward protestantism.

A response like “We’re Catholic” is neither informative nor welcomed.

First, I would like to say that I don’t hate or dislike Protestants in any way. I will sometimes make a joke along the lines of “There’s no such thing as a good Protestant” but I’m merely joking. I have many good Protestant friends that don’t interfere or try to change my beliefs and are completely okay with my beliefs and my church.

Now that that is out of the way, Protestant literally means to protest against the church. As an answer to your question, at least fifty percent of anything a Protestant says is a heresy and the church condemns. From believing that Christ was married to believing he was actually gay and had relations with the disciples. Yes, sadly there’s a few fruity wackos that would like to completely destroy the image of Christ, and make him into what they would like to believe is him. Denial of an eternal hell, saved by faith alone, once saved always saved, they are all beliefs set out because some guy didn’t like that he had specific rules to follow and obey. Which, although horrible, is all tolerable, if they don’t try to get us. However, many Protestants do. They make things up about the church, they say we believe and do things that we don’t do, the line goes on and on. I think my favorite apologist Tim Staples is a fine example of a man who was truly out to get the church. He was taught the wrong things and hated the church ever since he was a little boy. It’s as plain and simple as that. And he loved to get Catholics. Because he knew, just like many protestants know, Catholics don’t have a Sunday school. Catholics don’t have to memorize scripture like they do. And because of that, we find that they are able to out-bible us and take us out. It is our own fault because we didn’t make sure that we knew. The sixties and seventies made weird up weird heresies, and we are trying to root it out to this day. Some, -And you might be able to say a lot- of Protestants are out to get us, and are mean people.

That being said, John Paul II the Great said that we are to always be charitable to them, always be nice to them, and to never get angry with them.

However, just like a war veteran, we can sometimes rule out all Protestants -Or Vietnamese, German, Japanese, etc- as the same. This is very bad, and in fact Jesus himself condemns hating a specific person just because they’re from a certain part of the world (Referring to the Samaritans, of course).

I do not personally hate Protestants, but I’ve met a lot of Protestants on Youtube that I’ve had to literally stop talking to them to not start hating them. I’ve met some Protestants that I wished I could meet in person so I could slam their ignorant face into a wall. But Jesus condemns violence as well, so thankfully the internet was invented and I have never met one of these people.

I hope I answered your question well.

 

[hn160]

But the music in today’s Mass doesn’t sound very Catholic. Chant would be more sacred at Mass.

Our Lutheran Devine Service Three would make a lot of Catholics feel at home. It includes chanting the Introit and rest of the liturgy. As has been pointed out, Lutherans believe in the real presence in Holy Communion. Other Protestant, accuse us of being too Catholic.

 

[hn160]

You’re overgeneralizing a bit on Lutherans believing the Real Presence.

I have friends who are Missouri Synod Lutherans and they don’t believe in the Real Presence at all.

That goes both ways, I know Catholics that are known as cafeteria Catholics, they pick and choose what Catholic dotrine they want to believe. They still take Communion.