Why so many Protestant denominations

[COGHOBDOJ]

You are asking us to reject the teachings of the one true Church -how is that a courtesy? If the Church is right then you have embraced a false religion. You cant brush that away by just saying “Jesus loves us”.

I want to know how it is you know it is gods spirit talking to you and if he is how do you account for his allegedly giving very different messages to many peoples? Are there more than one version of the truth.

I say this with all seriousness: You will be very surprised when you get to Heaven.

I see the Bible as very simple to read and learn from. Its very clear what the gift of salvation is about: to confess with your mouth, Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

This is the truth I have accepted and put my faith in for eternal salvation.

Don’t put words in my mouth. Its far more than just “Jesus loves us.” Of course Jesus loves us, but salvation is about what we do with what Jesus did for us. We have to place our faith in that, we have to confess with our mouths.

You will know that its God’s Spirit talking to me by my fruits. Only myself and God knows the condition of my heart.

I also know it is God’s Spirit because of the promises He makes to me scripturally and the fulfillment of those promises based on my obedience to His Godly Wisdom. I possess the abundance that Jesus talks about.

I’m mystified how after only 48 hours on this board and less than 20 posts by me and some of you are questioning my fellowship with Christ.

Now I know how the Catholics feel when they go to Prot message boards.

 

[johnnydigit]

My perspective on The Sacraments is that you can outwardly perform those and not be drawn to God. Just as bible figures presented sacrifices and offerings that were not pleasing to The Lord. So, I don’t put alot of confidence in those things. Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount taught me to go beyond the outward appearance of holiness and make it a heart changing issue.

yes, it can be meaningless to people if they don’t bring anything to the table. there is a simultaneous reciprocation. God is openly offering with love if you are willing to accept - with love. if you receive with no understanding, no love, no belief… guess what? God will return the same sentiment. hopefully you will receive some grace anyways, but that is in His hands.
so if you don’t do those “things” with heart, you get nothing in return.

unfortunately you didn’t stick around long enough to learn this. unfortunately it’s the same with many Catholics.

I’m glad you have joy in Christ where you worship corporately. I have the same joy. I wonder the significance of “one billion?” I also wonder how you can say incomparable and unfathomable with such assurity?

no, you don’t have the same joy because you weren’t around to receive our Lord in the Eucharist fully prepared as you should have been. this is what is incomparable and unfathomable, and what no other church can offer you. this is the assurity that i speak of, and no one can fully grasp this mystery, much less explain it - that once you are aware of the Bread of Life within you, nothing else matters, nothing else compares.

unfortunately you didn’t stick around long enough to learn this. unfortunately it’s the same with many Catholics.

M
The reason history doesn’t draw me is because its full of man’s fingerprints and not The Holy Spirit’s. I believe 90%-95% of the bible is for instruction of our own hearts. I’m on my second pass of reading the bible through. As I travel through the scriptures, I’m convicted about the things in MY HEART that don’t line up with God’s Wisdom. Rarely do I see anything about how my church isn’t lining up. That carries alot of weight with me.

how do you know the Bible you read doesn’t have man’s fingerprints on it also? how do you know what is in your heart is true? feelings are faulty. how do you know the Spirit is guiding your properly if others say the same thing? you have found a church which lines up with you because it has people who line up with you. 33,000 others have found churches which they feel line up with them. there is something faulty in this mentality, and about 29,999 more churches than there should be.

For the past 6 years I have began a relationship with Christ from a non Catholic and non Prot perspective. The teachings in the New Testament and Old Testament are pretty clear and cut to me. I have never been more fruitful and fulfilled since then.

I’ll say it again and I’ll say it 1,000,000 times if I have to: If you have found intimacy with Christ Jesus through the sacraments of the Catholic Church, may God bless you! I don’t doubt your fellowship.

So, please, extend me the same courteousy and don’t doubt what God’s Spirit is doing in my heart and in my family, outside of your spiritual culture. I am in full relationshiip and fellowship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This, I rest assuredly upon for glorious hope.

Be Blessed.

i don’t mean to criticize you or attack you personally. i don’t doubt you have found peace and love in Christ. God can work through anything. my point earlier was that although you have found it in your church, many of your brothers have not. neither will they look to the Catholic Church because of all the lies spread about it. they will continue to wander in the darkness, starting with going down the list of 33,000, but probably giving up after a few. there is no universal place for them to go. the universal Church is supposed to fill that need.

so again, i am not the one to tell you what is best for you at this point. all i can offer you is the truth about our Church, whether you are comfortable with it or not. do i want to see the many happy protestant families i’ve seen broken up? “brother against brother”… “father against child”? no, but truth is truth.

 

[johnnydigit]

So, what do you ascribe to the abundance in my life that I have experienced outside of the Catholic Church? How do you explain the many ways that The Holy Spirit reaches people outside of your experiences?

i don’t know. i think others can try to answer that better. i’ve been atheistic. i’ve been agnostic. i’ve been to protestant services. i’ve been to protestant concerts, filled to the brim with thousands of people on fire with a genuine love of Christ. i ask, “how could this be?” but then i think about all the people who aren’t there, who haven’t found their church. all the people in the stadium are satisfied with the little that was given to them. the Catholic Church offers it all, and more.

Again, I attribute it to the common denominator, The Holy Spirit. I have studied and heard the arguments for and against between Prot adn Cath. Both sides believe they are correct. I guess I’m in the minority that believes some truth and correctness is in both. As long as the Holy Spirit is involved in each.

i’m sure there are more like you. now i challenge you to take it further and step out of your comfort zone, to find out once and for all. if you and your family are satisfied, your descendants may not be. you owe it to them to offer them the full and complete Church Jesus promised. the hard part is properly handing down the faith like scripture says. the ugly image of the Catholic Church is from a failure of doing just that…

I ascribe it to the willingness of each of our hearts to allow God’s Truth to enter. Its up to us to receive all that Christ has for us. It happens in Cath churches and Prot. churches. It happens in all churches where the simple truth of the Gospel is taught. It happens when any of us draw near to God adn His Truth.

The proof is in the fruit of each of the unbeliever. Godly fruit can be seen in people who practice one way or the other. It can be found in people who practice one style fo worship or another. As long as the simple Gospel is involved. I think the Apostle’s Creed is a good foundation for either way of worship.

There’s no denying the effect that the Kingdom of Heaven is having whether through your worship style or mine. I don’t see how one can argue that point.

what you say is mostly true, however we deserve the full Gospel in all its entirety, not fractured in 33,000 places. the beautiful Gospel you ascribe to is marvelous and it shows, but it is missing pieces. the fullness of the faith is in the Catholic Church.

if you love Christ as you say, you need to prove this to yourself 100% and be absolutely certain that the Catholic Church is wrong, and not ignore it anymore because of how comfortable your life is. the closer you get to Christ, the more you will suffer…

============

another plug: with your zeal, like that of many protestants, if you applied it to the Catholic Church, your kingdom will expand 100 fold and you will open new worlds that you cannot even fathom… and thats just the basic Sacraments and the Saints. basically, your heart will explode from love… and that’s just the beginning.

 

[estesbob]

I say this with all seriousness: You will be very surprised when you get to Heaven.

I see the Bible as very simple to read and learn from. Its very clear what the gift of salvation is about: to confess with your mouth, Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

This is the truth I have accepted and put my faith in for eternal salvation.

Don’t put words in my mouth. Its far more than just “Jesus loves us.” Of course Jesus loves us, but salvation is about what we do with what Jesus did for us. We have to place our faith in that, we have to confess with our mouths.

You will know that its God’s Spirit talking to me by my fruits. Only myself and God knows the condition of my heart.

I also know it is God’s Spirit because of the promises He makes to me scripturally and the fulfillment of those promises based on my obedience to His Godly Wisdom. I possess the abundance that Jesus talks about.

I’m mystified how after only 48 hours on this board and less than 20 posts by me and some of you are questioning my fellowship with Christ.

Now I know how the Catholics feel when they go to Prot message boards.

I am not questioning your fellowhip with Chist. i am, however, expresing that you have settled for a pale shadow of the truth. Like the occupants of Plato’s ’ cave you are seeing Christ only as shadows flickering across the wall while convincing yourself you are seeing him in full technicolor.

I have asked you many times what you base all the profound things you have said about your realtionship with Christ and , more importantly, how we come to know him. it appears that you are baseing it on nothing more than your personal interpretation of a book that did not, in a large part, even exist when Jesus ascened to heaven.

You approach is exactly what has led to so many different Protestant Denominations. Everyone reading the same book, claming to be led by the same Spirit but coming up with widely different ideas of what constitues the truth.

 

[COGHOBDOJ]

So, I ask you all this question in light of what you are saying about my spiritual history:

What happened during the first 28 years of my life that I served in the Catholic Church? Why didn’t I get full revelation of God’s Grace and the Abundant Life He had for me while I was worshipping in the Catholic Church?

Why did it take me to change churches to get revelation of what God’s Will for my life was?

This is why I do not agree with what has been said here. My growth ignited when I landed where God wanted me to be. If you all have experienced growth where you are, then you are where God wants you to be.

It boggles me that none of you can understand this. I’ve seen people blossom after converting BOTH WAYS. And my point is the common denominator is ALWAYS CHRIST!

Arguments, debates go on and on and are repeated and repeated and nobody wins cause each of you are confident you are right. I’ve heard both sides and are impressed by both sides.

In the 6 years since witnessing the great debate between Prot and Caths., absolutely no fruit has come of it. This is why its obvious to me that “how” we do church is irrevelant. People grow in both places, people don’t grow in both places.

All I know is that when I read, study and meditate on scripture, I’m not convicted to participate in Catholic Sacraments. I can do that and not mean it. I’m convicted to be transformed into the image of Christ. I’m convicted to change my heart so that I can treat others the way Jesus treated others.

Its pretty clear to me. I’m extremely comfortable with where I’m at. I know I am working on the things The Holy Spirit CLEARLY and CONCISELY speaks about in the scriptures. I don’t have to hold the scriptures at certain angles to come up with the way I worship.

OK. I’ve already started in to what I didn’t want to start into when joining here. Should’ve figured. You fine fellows have just as aggresive of apologetics as the Prot. forums I also visit. I don’t like those hounds there and this is already becoming burdensome.

No level ground will be reached. Some people just have to be right.

I think we’ll all be very surprised, if not ashamed, of what we’ve done with corporate worship here on earth. I think we’ll all be ashamed of the time we’ve wasted in apologetics. Time we could have been reaching the lost, serving the poor, widows and the orphans.

 

[Church_Militant]

I say this with all seriousness: You will be very surprised when you get to Heaven.

I see the Bible as very simple to read and learn from. Its very clear what the gift of salvation is about: to confess with your mouth, Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

This is the truth I have accepted and put my faith in for eternal salvation.

That’s all well and good my friend except that that is not the complete gospel message of salvation and it is not (in fact) the one that the Church has preached for some 2,000 years.
Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

Don’t put words in my mouth. Its far more than just “Jesus loves us.” Of course Jesus loves us, but salvation is about what we do with what Jesus did for us. We have to place our faith in that, we have to confess with our mouths.

If confession with the mouth is all that is necessary to be “saved” then why is that not what was preached in John 3:5, Acts 2:38 and 22:16?

You will know that its God’s Spirit talking to me by my fruits. Only myself and God knows the condition of my heart.

I can certainly agree with that.

I also know it is God’s Spirit because of the promises He makes to me scripturally and the fulfillment of those promises based on my obedience to His Godly Wisdom. I possess the abundance that Jesus talks about.

Something Catholics understand as well, but perhaps might not express that way.

I’m mystified how after only 48 hours on this board and less than 20 posts by me and some of you are questioning my fellowship with Christ.

The point may be moot already, however, it is useless and somewhat dishonest for us to try to discount the serious differences between our faiths. It is, IMO, a better idea to deal with and dialog about those things, in the hope of discovering the fullness of truth.

Jesus plainly tells us that He is the truth in John 14:6 and so it behooves us all to seek the fullness of truth in order to seek Him. If one believes that there is such a thing as absolute truth.

Now I know how the Catholics feel when they go to Protestant message boards.

Unfortunately you are correct, but I submit that you will find yourself generally better treated and these forums better moderated than most all of the ones that we Catholics have experienced, (at least in my experience).

BTW, you probably need to check out the Forum Rules and Banned Topics Policy here at CAF. we aren’t allowed to use the term you used above.

[sign]Welcome to CAF![/sign]

 

[BCPoulsen]

A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city: and their contentions are like the bars of a castle. - Proverbs 18:19

Contention serves no good purpose. Without a doubt the spirit of contention is of Satan himself. A quote from C.S Lewis has come to mind several times as I’ve followed this thread:
“There have been some who were so occupied in spreading Christianity that they never gave a thought to Christ.” (The Great Divorce, page 74)

I’ve seen the beauty of the gospel, felt the love of God and witnessed the true testimony of Christ through the actions and shared experiences of good people from many different churches. God loves each of His children and will bless their honest devotion as they stive to serve Him. It would be quite arrogant for me to discount someone’s relation with his/her Savior just because we don’t attend the same church.

That being said, I do not think that it is God’s intent to bring confusion into the world by establishing thousands of churches. He established His Church and is a God of order. There is more to be said but not the time right now so I’ll save it for a later post.

 

[paarsurrey]

A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city: and their contentions are like the bars of a castle. - Proverbs 18:19

Contention serves no good purpose.

That being said, I do not think that it is God’s intent to bring confusion into the world by establishing thousands of churches.

Hi

I quite agree with you. Good persons like you should endeavor to unite all 32000plus denominations into one UnitedChristendom with peaceful dialogue, without compromises, but making sacrifices for unity with truth.

Thanks

 

[guanophore]

Hi

It is not that only Sola Scriptura has resulted into divisions in denominations, if you rethink it is a useful belief. There are many factors which have resulted into divisions and denominations. The Catholics are also divided into many factions/sects for which kindly see any encyclopedia.

Unless a conserted move is made for unity, this process of divisions and further divisions would continue, maybe excelerated. Nobody seems to be interested for Unity or One Christendom, though at the same time Catholics acknowledge that this a pre-condition of Jesus’ Second Coming. Sometimes I feel they are not even interested in Jesus’ Second Coming; maybe it is only a rhetoric.

Thanks

Catholics are not interested in a guise of unity at the expense of truth. We are not interested in your assertion that Jesus did not really die on the cross, or that Mary travelled to Arabia after Jesus’ somehow avoided crucifixion. Or supposed unity on the agreement that Jesus (pbuh) did not really claim to be God, and is not God. Unity depends upon adherance to the truth. These things that you espouse do not line up with the Truths that were passed on to us in the Apostolic faith. This is why we are not unified.

 

[nsper7]

As a Jewish Christian with Anglican/Episcopalian leanings (I don’t particularly like being defined by what I am not and/or theoretically stand against), I can give several opinions on why there are so many ‘Protestant’ denominations.

1. Human fallibility in Scriptural interpretation (people hold divergent views on a Scriptural passage or theological issue and they split up)
2. Overwillingness to split up over ‘minor’ (in my personal opinion) theological issues (i.e. how will the End Times occur? should musical instruments be used in worship? how should men and women dress [in church and in general]?). I would define a major issue as something that would be addressed in the Apostles or Nicenean Creeds (i.e. Trinity) or relate to Salvation (how does one become Saved? OSAS/NOSAS?)
3. Different traditions (High Church vs. Low Church; not necessarily bad; some people prefer more liturgy, others are more evangelical or charismatic, in the end, the important thing is what doctrine is being taught)
4. Different ‘major’ theological issues (i.e. on Salvation, the Trinity, the Creeds, etc.; this is legitimate, if someone is making an important/major claim that I disagree with, a split maybe the only answer)

I do believe that, although there are many denominations, as the Nicenean Creed puts it (and we repeat it every Sunday in the Episcopal Church) there is only on Holy, Catholic (Universal) and Apostolic Church. In the end, it is up to God who is a part of His Church and is Saved in the end (it galls me to hear people judge other denominations or people in that way, whether it is within ‘Protestant’ denominations or when ‘Protestants’ start condemning the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Church).

 

[paarsurrey]

Catholics are not interested in a guise of unity at the expense of truth. We are not interested in your assertion that Jesus did not really die on the cross, or that Mary travelled to Arabia after Jesus’ somehow avoided crucifixion. Or supposed unity on the agreement that Jesus (pbuh) did not really claim to be God, and is not God. Unity depends upon adherance to the truth. These things that you espouse do not line up with the Truths that were passed on to us in the Apostolic faith. This is why we are not unified.

Hi

Never mind, that is your free will.

Unity depends upon adherance to the truth

I agree with you, that is why I never said that you should compromise with your beliefs. Moreover I was talking about the Unity among the 32000plus denominations of the Christians to one UnitedChristendom.

Thanks

 

[jblake]

drafdog;:

It seems that every time a “holiness movement” is initiated in a protestant denomination, the parent church or the movement itself decides to disassociate itself from the other.

This “split rather than mediate mentality” became the dominant mode after the development of the Landmark Movement.

The real fun with the Landmark Movement, is when the congregation would not allow the visiting pastor to partake of Communion, because he hadn’t been rightly baptized into the Lord.

xan

jonathon

 

[jblake]

estesbob;:

You are asking us to reject the teachings of the one true Church -how is that a courtesy?

You were not being asked to reject Catholicism. You were being asked to Live according to the Will of Christ.

COGHOBDOJ did not experience Christ in a Catholic Church. He (I’m assuming this is Gererd and not Brandy) did experience Christ in a non-denominational church.

If the Church is right then you have embraced a false religion.

Your working assumption is that outside of the Catholic Church, there is no Salvation.
His working assumption is that outside of Christ, there is no Salvation.

Which would be better:
To be with Christ, but outside of the Catholic Church?
To be within the Catholic Church, but outside of Christ?

Are there more than one version of the truth.

CF: The Elephant and the Ten Blind Men.

xan

jonathon

 

[jblake]

jmcrae;:

If you want the Apostles’ Creed, then you have to be Catholic. Protestantism does not accept it.

Other than Baptists, the Reformation era Protestant Churches do accept the Apostles’ Creed. The Restoration Movement Churches usually reject the Apostles’ Creed.

I’ll also point out that most of the current “non-denominational” churches do accept the Apostles’ Creed.

The number of Christian churches/denominations that do not accept the Apostles’ Creed is staggeringly small.

anything you can find in Protestantism, there is an Order of Service or a Mass that they got it from, originally.

a) Other than Baptists, Reformation era Protestant Churches are liturgical. One can trace their order of worship to the then prevailing Mass.

b) Restoration Movement Churches usually are not liturgical. The only way to trace their order of worship to Catholicism, is to discount the description of the services in the Bible.

c) Then there are those independents, such as the snake handlers. I’m not sure where to begin looking for a Catholic origin to that.

d) Would you ever see a Catholic Mass where the congregation spontaneously started singing hymns,because they thought that the sermon was getting too unscriptural?

xan

jonathon

 

[estesbob]

So, I ask you all this question in light of what you are saying about my spiritual history:

What happened during the first 28 years of my life that I served in the Catholic Church? Why didn’t I get full revelation of God’s Grace and the Abundant Life He had for me while I was worshipping in the Catholic Church?

.

It appears you decided that you were more qualified to interpret scipture than the Chruch founded by Jesus. You traded the truth for emotion.

In reading yoiur posts I suspect it is not us you are trying to convnce that you made a good decision to seperate yourself from the Church-it appear you are trying to convince yourself.

 

[estesbob]

You were not being asked to reject Catholicism. You were being asked to Live according to the Will of Christ.

COGHOBDOJ did not experience Christ in a Catholic Church. He (I’m assuming this is Gererd and not Brandy) did experience Christ in a non-denominational church.

No-he had an emotionaL experience that he equates with experiencing Christ. Christ can not be seperated from his Church. One can only have the fullensss of truth(asnd truly know Christ) in his Church. The Church acknowledges that all Christian denominations have a small piece of the truth-but it is only a pale shadow of the truth.

Your working assumption is that outside of the Catholic Church, there is no Salvation.
His working assumption is that outside of Christ, there is no Salvation.

Salvation can be obtained only through the Church.

Which would be better:
To be with Christ, but outside of the Catholic Church?
To be within the Catholic Church, but outside of Christ?

Its a false choice since the first option is not possible- at least not fully be with Christ.

CF: The Elephant and the Ten Blind Men.

You simply can not paper overe the huge difference between the Church and the some 30,000 other man made denominations that all calim to have the truth.

10 blind men may have a different description of an elepahnt but none will claim it is a mouse.

 

[jmcrae]

Your working assumption is that outside of the Catholic Church, there is no Salvation.
His working assumption is that outside of Christ, there is no Salvation.

To be outside of the Church (which is Christ’s Body; see I Corinthians 12) is, in fact, to be outside of Christ. When St. Paul was persecuting the early Catholic Church, Jesus appeared to him and said, “Why persecutest thou Me?” Christ identifies Himself with His Church - what you do to the Church, you do to Christ. Meaning that if you abandon the Church, then you are abandoning Christ.

St. Cyprian, writing several decades before we had a Bible to read from, said, “Who ever does not take the Church for his Mother cannot have God for his Father.” God the Father is neither a divorcer or a widower; His Bride is alive and well and living at home - to leave Her is to leave Him.

 

[2ndGen]

The Protestant church(s) foretold by Jesus in Scripture?

---

The House built on The Rock…

Matthew 7
24
“Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them,
I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:
25
and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew
and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26
“But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand:
27
and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”
28
And so it was, when Jesus had ended these sayings, that the people were astonished at His teaching,
29
for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.​

Some things to consider?
For the Hebrews, water sometimes represented spirit (ala’ when Christ gave up His spirit, water poured from His heart, baptism in water, water turned to wine/spirit turned to flesh/Holy Spirit manifests itself in Christ to produce His first miracle, etc…).

Spirit was also represented as wind (Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit upon The Apostles, Jesus let out His last breath and died, etc…).

House often referenced a church (“Did you not know I’d be in My Father’s house?” when Jesus was found teaching in the Temple, Jesus calls the Temple His Father’s house when turning over the tables of the money changers, etc…).

Sand, made of soil; man is made of soil.

Best for last…rock, foundation of The Church,The Rock…Peter.​

Matthew 7 then?

Those who build their churches on men, their churches are destined to fall apart when tested by the spirits of descent, of jealousy, of courruption, of discourse, of disagreement, etc…
(can we say 34,000+ denominations?)

Where those who adhere to The Church that was built upon Saint Peter The Rock, their Church will stand firm in the face of adversity and the storms of life.

Now, which Church is it that has shown itself to be built upon The Rock?

---

Matthew 16:18…where history meets scripture.

 

[estesbob]

To be outside of the Church (which is Christ’s Body; see I Corinthians 12) is, in fact, to be outside of Christ. When St. Paul was persecuting the early Catholic Church, Jesus appeared to him and said, “Why persecutest thou Me?” Christ identifies Himself with His Church - what you do to the Church, you do to Christ. Meaning that if you abandon the Church, then you are abandoning Christ.

St. Cyprian, writing several decades before we had a Bible to read from, said, “Who ever does not take the Church for his Mother cannot have God for his Father.” God the Father is neither a divorcer or a widower; His Bride is alive and well and living at home - to leave Her is to leave Him.

You said that a lot better than I did. Thanks.!

 

[DebChris]

My perspective on The Sacraments is that you can outwardly perform those and not be drawn to God. Just as bible figures presented sacrifices and offerings that were not pleasing to The Lord. So, I don’t put alot of confidence in those things. Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount taught me to go beyond the outward appearance of holiness and make it a heart changing issue.

It is true that many go to Mass and receive the Sacraments strictly out of duty as a result of family and social tradition. They are unaware of the great gift contained within. That does not, however, negate the efficicacy of the graces that the Holy Spirit gives His people through the Sacraments. What good is it to receive a gift if you never open the package? Erma Bombeck wrote about having a set of dishes that she never used. Instead, she saved them for a special occasion that never came. Every day can serve as that special occasion to use the gifts we receive from God.

The reason history doesn’t draw me is because its full of man’s fingerprints and not The Holy Spirit’s. I believe 90%-95% of the bible is for instruction of our own hearts. I’m on my second pass of reading the bible through. As I travel through the scriptures, I’m convicted about the things in MY HEART that don’t line up with God’s Wisdom. Rarely do I see anything about how my church isn’t lining up. That carries alot of weight with me.

Scripture itself says that it is useful for instruction and encouragement of the faithful. It is the conviction of the Holy Spirit that leads me to the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

For the past 6 years I have began a relationship with Christ from a non Catholic and non Prot perspective. The teachings in the New Testament and Old Testament are pretty clear and cut to me. I have never been more fruitful and fulfilled since then.
I’m glad you have joy in Christ where you worship corporately. I have the same joy. I wonder the significance of “one billion?” I also wonder how you can say incomparable and unfathomable with such assurity?

The OT and NT are both integral parts of the Liturgy of the Word as proclaimed during Mass. I know what it means to have a personal relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ. As a result, my faith is stronger than it would otherwise be.

As a Jewish Christian with Anglican/Episcopalian leanings (I don’t particularly like being defined by what I am not and/or theoretically stand against), I can give several opinions on why there are so many ‘Protestant’ denominations.

1. Human fallibility in Scriptural interpretation (people hold divergent views on a Scriptural passage or theological issue and they split up)
2. Overwillingness to split up over ‘minor’ (in my personal opinion) theological issues (i.e. how will the End Times occur? should musical instruments be used in worship? how should men and women dress [in church and in general]?). I would define a major issue as something that would be addressed in the Apostles or Nicenean Creeds (i.e. Trinity) or relate to Salvation (how does one become Saved? OSAS/NOSAS?)
3. Different traditions (High Church vs. Low Church; not necessarily bad; some people prefer more liturgy, others are more evangelical or charismatic, in the end, the important thing is what doctrine is being taught)
4. Different ‘major’ theological issues (i.e. on Salvation, the Trinity, the Creeds, etc.; this is legitimate, if someone is making an important/major claim that I disagree with, a split maybe the only answer)

I do believe that, although there are many denominations, as the Nicenean Creed puts it (and we repeat it every Sunday in the Episcopal Church) there is only on Holy, Catholic (Universal) and Apostolic Church. In the end, it is up to God who is a part of His Church and is Saved in the end (it galls me to hear people judge other denominations or people in that way, whether it is within ‘Protestant’ denominations or when ‘Protestants’ start condemning the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Church).

Human relationships more often divide when we squabble over small issues than when larger issues are discussed in a calm manner.

To be outside of the Church (which is Christ’s Body; see I Corinthians 12) is, in fact, to be outside of Christ. When St. Paul was persecuting the early Catholic Church, Jesus appeared to him and said, “Why persecutest thou Me?” Christ identifies Himself with His Church - what you do to the Church, you do to Christ. Meaning that if you abandon the Church, then you are abandoning Christ.

St. Cyprian, writing several decades before we had a Bible to read from, said, “Who ever does not take the Church for his Mother cannot have God for his Father.” God the Father is neither a divorcer or a widower; His Bride is alive and well and living at home - to leave Her is to leave Him.

Ditto Estebob