Why so many Protestant denominations

[COGHOBDOJ]

I really think the split was/is being blown out of proportion. Let me explain:

1. Adam & Eve couldn’t get it right. Even after WALKING WITH GOD IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN!!
2. The Hebrews couldn’t get it right, even watching the Red Sea opened for them.
3. Moses couldn’t get it right, even after speaking with God like a friend speaks to another friend.
4. David couldn’t get it right, even after God says David is a man after His heart.
5. Paul? Face to face meeting with Jesus and direct revelation from the Holy Spirit and AFTER THAT he writes that, “the things I want to do, I do not do. The things I do not want to do, I do them anyway.”

Do I really need to go on? Are we getting the point that ALL of our biblical heroes, except JESUS had some flaws?

But, here we are thinking WE can do it right? Here we are, thinking “our” church, “our” denomination, “our” way is THE way.

Its just more and more ridiculous the more I think about it. My belief is the Early Church Father’s didn’t have it right, Luther didn’t have it right, nobody has it right. Sure, we give a good effort. And by God’s Grace ALONE, some people come to know, believe and receive Christ as their Savior despite us. But, are we really under the illusion that sinful men and women dwelling in a sinful world can get it right? Are we that prideful? Arrogant? Do we lack THAT much humility?

We fight, debate, build walls for the argument that we did it right and I believe NOBODY has it “right.”

I don’t mean this as a slap in the face to the many Catholic and Protestant churches that share the Gospel of Christ. As I said, by God’s grace alone we reach people with God’s Plan for Salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

My point is, none of this surprises our Almighty Father! He’s not on The Throne wringing His hands wondering how to fix the split between Prots and Caths.

We messed it up. We don’t have it right. How could God get the Glory of we took credit for anything. People are saved DESPITE us, not because of us.

 

[paarsurrey]

I really think the split was/is being blown out of proportion.
My point is, none of this surprises our Almighty Father! He’s not on The Throne wringing His hands wondering how to fix the split between Prots and Caths.

We messed it up. We don’t have it right.

Hi

I agree with the most of the contents of your post.

I think to come out of the pitched darkness to light, we sinful or not so sinful person should pray:

[1:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful
[1:2] All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,
[1:3] The Gracious, the Merciful,
[1:4] Master of the Day of Judgment.
[1:5] Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help.
[1:6] Guide us in the right path –
[1:7] The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings, those who have not incurred Thy displeasure, and those who have not gone astray.
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=1

Those who may not like to pray as above, should pray something similiar, no compulsion.

Thanks

 

[DebChris]

It seems that every time a “holiness movement” is initiated in a protestant denomination, the parent church or the movement itself decides to disassociate itself from the other. A major case in point is the Methodist church which was a holiness movement within the Anglican (Episcopal) church. Alternatively, there is the Oxford movement within Anglicanism which reunited (many of its members, certainly not all) with the Latin Rite Catholic Church. Another instance is the Southern Baptist’s ousting of anything that looks like Pentacostalism.
One of the major strengths of the Catholic Church has been the ability to accept and approve a vast array of spiritualities without feeling the need to separate or excommunicate anyone. Thus we have conservative Catholics, liberals, Cursillistas, charismatics and so forth. We also have a variety of religious orders including the Augustinians (Martin Luther was a member), Basilians, Benedictines, Cistercians, Jesuits, Franciscans (who were almost excommunicated) etc. The list is unbelievably long if you want to include all of the orders. I have listed only men’s communities and only the major ones that I know.
Unfortunately the protestants have not followed in the pattern of the parent church. Remember that a famous Irish author once wrote “Catholicism means here comes everyone.”

Matthew

This is a restatement, with examples, of what I initially posted. I referenced a television preacher who encouraged non-denominationalism. As he recited the reasons people form separate denominations, I saw how each was accepted within the Catholic Church. I can follow the Benedictine rule as a Charismatic and recite the rosary with Dominicans.Each of us is called to “be the creature God created us to be.” There is no need for me to go elsewhere, For each of us, nothing is more precious than the Body and Blood received in eucharistic celebration during the Mass. We do not walk alone. We can draw upon one another’s strengths.and understanding.

 

[jmcrae]

This is a restatement, with examples, of what I initially posted. I referenced a television preacher who encouraged non-denominationalism. As he recited the reasons people form separate denominations, I saw how each was accepted within the Catholic Church. I can follow the Benedictine rule as a Charismatic and recite the rosary with Dominicans.Each of us is called to “be the creature God created us to be.” There is no need for me to go elsewhere, For each of us, nothing is more precious than the Body and Blood received in eucharistic celebration during the Mass. We do not walk alone. We can draw upon one another’s strengths.and understanding.

Amen, yes!!

In Protestantism, if you want to try speaking in tongues, you have to go to a Victory Church, and then if you want to pray the Psalms, you have to go to a Presbyterian church. A Catholic can do both in the same building, and then go to Bible study and to Mass, and pray the Rosary, and help out in the soup kitchen, all without ever leaving the same building.

 

[johnnydigit]

why so many denominations?

when you have a man interpreting scripture for himself, he can make it say whatever he wants. without a teaching authority, ordained by God, to keep the teachings of the apostles in line, you have chaos and division which is evident in the last 500 years of Church history.

so it’s kinda like they’re picking and eating their own apples from Gods tree, instead of from the one apple picker Jesus left on earth hehe.

it also seems like they don’t realize the history of kingdoms in the Old Testament, and how the king would leave a prime minister in charge when the king was away, and how he would give him the keys to the kingdom? hello? anyone home? knock knock? Jesus giving Peter the keys? hello?

 

[estesbob]

I don’t mean this as a slap in the face to the many Catholic and Protestant churches that share the Gospel of Christ. **As I said, by God’s grace alone we reach people with God’s Plan for Salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **

.

How do you know you are not mistaken about that? If David and Paul Moses et al couldnt get it right what makes you think you can?

 

[COGHOBDOJ]

How do you know you are not mistaken about that? If David and Paul Moses et al couldnt get it right what makes you think you can?

I think I made it pretty clear that I’m in that group of people who don’t operate the perfect church. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear about that.

I don’t get it right, because I still battle with my flesh and I still live in the world, which Satan still roams to adn fro, seeking to kill, steal and destroy.

But, in our weakness, He is strong. His Word will not return void. Its only by God’s Grace that we do, say or write something that is Spirit led that attracts the unbeleiver and the lost to receive God’s gift of salvation by faith in Christ Jesus.

My point, again, was to point out that we need to give up on the idea that any of us are operating The Church in a way where we can point to others and say they are wrong. When I see someone pointing to another (that goes BOTH WAYS, BTW) and debating and arguing about how you “do church”, I question the spiritual maturity. I question whether or not you’ve noted the many scriptures that instruct us to be humble, consider others before considering ourselves, to serve others, as Christ served the church. I see NO Fruits of the Spirit in Cath vs Prot debates and arguments.

You want to impress me? SERVE THE LOST! Reach out to the orphan, the widow adn the poor! And do it all IN LOVE! But, I hope no one tries to impress little 'ole me.

You can be a model Prot church member, attend every service, meet the tithing requirements and all that is “required” and be without Christ and be hell bound. You can be the model Cath churhc emmber, alter boy, lector/commentator, usher, RCIA teacher, CCD teacher, etc, etc, and still be without Jesus, hell bound.

That’s the truth and no debate will settle what you have done with Jesus Christ once you’ve met Him.

 

[jmcrae]

I think I made it pretty clear that I’m in that group of people who don’t operate the perfect church. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear about that.

It’s not about “us” or anybody else “operating” the perfect Church - it’s about Christ establishing one and only one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and us being members of that Church, rather than joining something that was established by persons who had no credentials or authority to do so, after the fact.

You want to impress me? SERVE THE LOST! Reach out to the orphan, the widow adn the poor! And do it all IN LOVE! But, I hope no one tries to impress little 'ole me.

We have seven churches in my neighborhood - six of them have no stained glass windows or ornamentation of any kind - in fact they look like empty boxes, because “that would be stealing from the poor” - but, guess which church has the Lunch Bus (lunches, coffee, and snacks for homeless people) in its parking lot every noon hour? And the Inn from the Cold program, taking in homeless families over night? (You guessed it - the one with all the stained glass windows and fancy ornamentation - the Catholic Church.)

 

[COGHOBDOJ]

No need to defend the Cath church’s charity. I know the charity of the Catholic Church. The statistics don’t lie. The Cath. Church is reaching out, sharing the gospel, touching those that the bible instructs us to reach. Never said they didn’t. My measuring stick for ANY church RC or Prot or Non Denom, is whether the lost are accepting Christ, the widows/orphans/poor are being served in love. If your church doesn’t have that, if your HEART isn’t about that, you are missing something. your priorities aren’t lined up with God’s priorities. If you put ANYTHING above those basics, it’s time for a Holy Spirit check up.

You guys and gals need to understand I am not on one side or the other. I’m not defending one side or the other. When I make a comment about serving as Christ served, that comment is intended for me and anyone claiming to serve Christ.

I don’t care what the sign says in your church yard. I care about the condition of my heart and your heart.

My experience is that for 28 years being active in the Catholic Church, I never was encouraged to find out my purpose in the Kingdom of Heaven. Is that the Cath church’s fault? No. Its my fault. After 6+ years of serving in a non denom church, I am closer to God than I have ever been. I am on a clear tract to where God wants me to be and I know exactly what my purpose on this earth is concerning the Kingdom of God. I have met many spirit filled, Jesus loving men and women I have served with while in the Catholic Church. I just believe God’s will for my life is in my present church.

Just as many Catholics have found their way in their church, I ahve found my way in my church. The common denominator? The Holy Spirit! Yes, as a non denom church goer, I believe the Holy Spirit has not left the Catholic Church!

So, go on and on if you want to about The Catholic Church being The One and Holy Apostalic Church. As long as there are lost people coming to Christ adn born again believers serving the lost, serving the poor, serving the orphan and serving the widows in Cath. churches and Prot churches, I’ll never be convinced you are correct.

 

[johnnydigit]

I think I made it pretty clear that I’m in that group of people who don’t operate the perfect church. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear about that.

I don’t get it right, because I still battle with my flesh and I still live in the world, which Satan still roams to adn fro, seeking to kill, steal and destroy.

But, in our weakness, He is strong. His Word will not return void. Its only by God’s Grace that we do, say or write something that is Spirit led that attracts the unbeleiver and the lost to receive God’s gift of salvation by faith in Christ Jesus.

My point, again, was to point out that we need to give up on the idea that any of us are operating The Church in a way where we can point to others and say they are wrong. When I see someone pointing to another (that goes BOTH WAYS, BTW) and debating and arguing about how you “do church”, I question the spiritual maturity. I question whether or not you’ve noted the many scriptures that instruct us to be humble, consider others before considering ourselves, to serve others, as Christ served the church. I see NO Fruits of the Spirit in Cath vs Prot debates and arguments.

You want to impress me? SERVE THE LOST! Reach out to the orphan, the widow adn the poor! And do it all IN LOVE! But, I hope no one tries to impress little 'ole me.

You can be a model Prot church member, attend every service, meet the tithing requirements and all that is “required” and be without Christ and be hell bound. You can be the model Cath churhc emmber, alter boy, lector/commentator, usher, RCIA teacher, CCD teacher, etc, etc, and still be without Jesus, hell bound.

That’s the truth and no debate will settle what you have done with Jesus Christ once you’ve met Him.

as beautiful as your intentions are, the reality is there are people who aren’t getting enough, in both churches, for whatever reason. the “fullness of the faith” as is described of the Catholic Church, is what these people need and deserve. to go to a protestant church which has broken off and lost key elements is depriving them of what they need. sure there are protestants who think they are satisfied at their churches, but many are not. they don’t know what to do except to hop to another church and hope it suits them. they deserve to start with the one, complete, and original church which was started by the Man whom they are seeking.

unfortunately the Catholic Church also has many people who don’t even realize the gift they have. they are lukewarm or as far away from Christ as a non-Christian. they have also had people in leadership who have failed to live up to their duties. this is the fault of the men, the faulty human side, not the Church itself. the Truth in the Church remains and will remain forever.

in any organization the people will argue, just as the apostles and disciples did, however they did not break apart. the Catholic vs. Protestant debate inflicts suffering on innocent people - mainly depriving them of the Sacraments. this is the Truth that protestants leaders have taken from them due to those who cannot accept authority, yet end up claiming their own authority on themselves and others.

fortunately, God has no limits and can work in any way, but many well-intentioned protestants will suffer and lead others to suffer for many, many generations.

==================

my advice is to restart and learn Christianity from the beginning again. read the history. don’t look at it from a Catholic or protestant perspective. eliminate any loyalties or biases. look for the cold, hard truth, no matter how ugly or dirty. if you listen to one of their interpretations, then you must listen to the other side - all of it. what is your initial, natural reaction? if you look at Christianity from a purely scholarly, historical, and logical point of view, the right church will emerge for you. this isn’t just for you, but your descendants for many generations to come, and scripture says you will be accountable for the chain of effects.

God bless you all and wherever you end up. for me, i and one billion others have finally found our home and can rest in the incomparable and unfathomable joy of our faith.

 

[jmcrae]

My experience is that for 28 years being active in the Catholic Church, I never was encouraged to find out my purpose in the Kingdom of Heaven. Is that the Cath church’s fault? No. Its my fault. After 6+ years of serving in a non denom church, I am closer to God than I have ever been.

WHO founded your non-denom Church? What year?

Christ founded the Catholic Church in 33 AD; this we know from reading the Bible and looking at history, and putting it all together.

 

[johnnydigit]

My experience is that for 28 years being active in the Catholic Church, I never was encouraged to find out my purpose in the Kingdom of Heaven. Is that the Cath church’s fault? No. Its my fault. After 6+ years of serving in a non denom church, I am closer to God than I have ever been.

not just your own, but some of the fault is on our leaders. we’re still growing and changing, and hopefully in the direction of improvement.

Just as many Catholics have found their way in their church, I ahve found my way in my church. The common denominator? The Holy Spirit! Yes, as a non denom church goer, I believe the Holy Spirit has not left the Catholic Church!

it’s good that you talk about the true condition of the heart, but once you get there and everyone is on the same page regarding God and Jesus Christ as our Lord, problems start to arise. the more and closer you look at scripture, the details start to concern you. Jesus tells us to continually grow, but now there are different interpretations going around on how to do this. this is where the debate starts. this is where i started to say, “wait a second, okay which one is the most correct? there must be one.”

it is one thing to get everyone to realize we need to build the kingdom. ok, our hearts are true and set on God. but now the next step is, we need to actually build the kingdom. to do so with 6 billion people on earth, we need organization and authority.

===============

another reason for you to be concerned is because scripture says so. it talks about leading others astray, mis-interpreting scripture, adding and removing books, defying authority, etc. so you got step 1 down - Jesus, now is step 2 - find His Church.

it’s great that you are comfortable where you are at, but is it about being comfortable?
it’s great that you are comfortable where you are at, but if God intended for you to be somewhere else, wouldn’t you be even more comfortable there?

pagans think they are comfortable where they are at too. i didn’t want to change before i found God too.

so step 3. i think that is… suffering. you may suffer if you find that the Catholic Church is truly what it claims. now you can truly share in His cross… but you will be closer to Him than you ever imagined and it will all be worth it. pax.

 

[COGHOBDOJ]

to go to a protestant church which has broken off and lost key elements is depriving them of what they need.

the Catholic vs. Protestant debate inflicts suffering on innocent people - mainly depriving them of the Sacraments. this is the Truth that protestants leaders have taken from them due to those who cannot accept authority, yet end up claiming their own authority on themselves and others.

my advice is to restart and learn Christianity from the beginning again. read the history. don’t look at it from a Catholic or protestant perspective. eliminate any loyalties or biases. look for the cold, hard truth, no matter how ugly or dirty. if you listen to one of their interpretations, then you must listen to the other side - all of it. what is your initial, natural reaction? if you look at Christianity from a purely scholarly, historical, and logical point of view, the right church will emerge for you. this isn’t just for you, but your descendants for many generations to come, and scripture says you will be accountable for the chain of effects.

God bless you all and wherever you end up. for me, i and one billion others have finally found our home and can rest in the incomparable and unfathomable joy of our faith.

My perspective on The Sacraments is that you can outwardly perform those and not be drawn to God. Just as bible figures presented sacrifices and offerings that were not pleasing to The Lord. So, I don’t put alot of confidence in those things. Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount taught me to go beyond the outward appearance of holiness and make it a heart changing issue.

The reason history doesn’t draw me is because its full of man’s fingerprints and not The Holy Spirit’s. I believe 90%-95% of the bible is for instruction of our own hearts. I’m on my second pass of reading the bible through. As I travel through the scriptures, I’m convicted about the things in MY HEART that don’t line up with God’s Wisdom. Rarely do I see anything about how my church isn’t lining up. That carries alot of weight with me.

For the past 6 years I have began a relationship with Christ from a non Catholic and non Prot perspective. The teachings in the New Testament and Old Testament are pretty clear and cut to me. I have never been more fruitful and fulfilled since then.

I’m glad you have joy in Christ where you worship corporately. I have the same joy. I wonder the significance of “one billion?” I also wonder how you can say incomparable and unfathomable with such assurity?

I’ll say it again and I’ll say it 1,000,000 times if I have to: If you have found intimacy with Christ Jesus through the sacraments of the Catholic Church, may God bless you! I don’t doubt your fellowship.

So, please, extend me the same courteousy and don’t doubt what God’s Spirit is doing in my heart and in my family, outside of your spiritual culture. I am in full relationshiip and fellowship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This, I rest assuredly upon for glorious hope.

Be Blessed.

 

[jmcrae]

My perspective on The Sacraments is that you can outwardly perform those and not be drawn to God.

Perhaps so, but they are not just “symbols” so how we feel when participating in the Sacraments is of no importance, because they are realities that continue to exist apart from our feelings, just like how the sky stays blue no matter how many clouds are covering it up, and no matter what we may be feeling at the time - Jesus really does come into your body during Catholic Holy Communion, even if you don’t feel a single thing, or believe a word of it.

The reason history doesn’t draw me is because its full of man’s fingerprints and not The Holy Spirit’s.

What do you think “history” is? (It is what really happened in the past. So, for example, if we find that Jesus established a Church (Matthew 16:18-19) then we look at history and ask “Where did it go?” And history answers, “It went to Rome in 67 AD. It’s still there, today.”

I wonder the significance of “one billion?”

There are more than one billion Catholics in the world, of all races, languages, and nations. The total number of non-Catholic Christians is less than half that number - this includes every kind of Orthodox, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Moonie, Jonestown, Urantian, etc., alongside of Anglican, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc., and of course also including the non-denominational churches.

 

[COGHOBDOJ]

So, what do you ascribe to the abundance in my life that I have experienced outside of the Catholic Church? How do you explain the many ways that The Holy Spirit reaches people outside of your experiences?

Again, I attribute it to the common denominator, The Holy Spirit. I have studied and heard the arguments for and against between Prot adn Cath. Both sides believe they are correct. I guess I’m in the minority that believes some truth and correctness is in both. As long as the Holy Spirit is involved in each.

I ascribe it to the willingness of each of our hearts to allow God’s Truth to enter. Its up to us to receive all that Christ has for us. It happens in Cath churches and Prot. churches. It happens in all churches where the simple truth of the Gospel is taught. It happens when any of us draw near to God adn His Truth.

The proof is in the fruit of each of the unbeliever. Godly fruit can be seen in people who practice one way or the other. It can be found in people who practice one style fo worship or another. As long as the simple Gospel is involved. I think the Apostle’s Creed is a good foundation for either way of worship.

There’s no denying the effect that the Kingdom of Heaven is having whether through your worship style or mine. I don’t see how one can argue that point.

 

[jmcrae]

So, what do you ascribe to the abundance in my life that I have experienced outside of the Catholic Church? How do you explain the many ways that The Holy Spirit reaches people outside of your experiences?

Can the Holy Spirit contradict Himself? But the Devil can masquerade as an angel of light. Are you completely sure that it is the Holy Spirit who is leading you to reject your Catholic faith?

I think the Apostle’s Creed is a good foundation for either way of worship.

If you want the Apostles’ Creed, then you have to be Catholic. Protestantism does not accept it.

There’s no denying the effect that the Kingdom of Heaven is having whether through your worship style or mine. I don’t see how one can argue that point.

Style doesn’t enter into it - there is every kind of style in the Catholic Church - anything you can find in Protestantism, there is an Order of Service or a Mass that they got it from, originally.

The reason it is important to be Catholic is because this is the religion that Christ gave to us to follow. He did not say, 'Go forth and invent a whole bunch of mutually contradictory religions," - no. He said, "Go forth, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (ie: baptize 'em Catholic) and teaching them all that I have taught you (ie: the Holy Tradition of the Catholic Church).

 

[COGHOBDOJ]

May God bless you in your walk and your pursuit of Him.

 

[estesbob]

I think I made it pretty clear that I’m in that group of people who don’t operate the perfect church. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear about that.

I don’t get it right, because I still battle with my flesh and I still live in the world, which Satan still roams to adn fro, seeking to kill, steal and destroy.

But, in our weakness, He is strong. His Word will not return void. Its only by God’s Grace that we do, say or write something that is Spirit led that attracts the unbeleiver and the lost to receive God’s gift of salvation by faith in Christ Jesus.

My point, again, was to point out that we need to give up on the idea that any of us are operating The Church in a way where we can point to others and say they are wrong. When I see someone pointing to another (that goes BOTH WAYS, BTW) and debating and arguing about how you “do church”, I question the spiritual maturity. I question whether or not you’ve noted the many scriptures that instruct us to be humble, consider others before considering ourselves, to serve others, as Christ served the church. I see NO Fruits of the Spirit in Cath vs Prot debates and arguments.

You want to impress me? SERVE THE LOST! Reach out to the orphan, the widow adn the poor! And do it all IN LOVE! But, I hope no one tries to impress little 'ole me.

You can be a model Prot church member, attend every service, meet the tithing requirements and all that is “required” and be without Christ and be hell bound. You can be the model Cath churhc emmber, alter boy, lector/commentator, usher, RCIA teacher, CCD teacher, etc, etc, and still be without Jesus, hell bound.

That’s the truth and no debate will settle what you have done with Jesus Christ once you’ve met Him.

I ask you again what do you base all this on? Why should one accept you personal view vs anyone elses?

BTW-about 60 minutes ago I held Jesus Christ in my hands and then consumed his body. does that qualify as meeting him?

 

[estesbob]

So, please, extend me the same courteousy and don’t doubt what God’s Spirit is doing in my heart and in my family, outside of your spiritual culture. I am in full relationshiip and fellowship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This, I rest assuredly upon for glorious hope.

Be Blessed.

You are asking us to reject the teachings of the one true Church -how is that a courtesy? If the Church is right then you have embraced a false religion. You cant brush that away by just saying “Jesus loves us”.

I want to know how it is you know it is gods spirit talking to you and if he is how do you account for his allegedly giving very different messages to many peoples? Are there more than one version of the truth.

 

[BCPoulsen]

My measuring stick for ANY church RC or Prot or Non Denom, is whether the lost are accepting Christ, the widows/orphans/poor are being served in love. If your church doesn’t have that, if your HEART isn’t about that, you are missing something. your priorities aren’t lined up with God’s priorities. If you put ANYTHING above those basics, it’s time for a Holy Spirit check up.

***Amen!***