Why some Christians feel more threatened by homosexuality than other, more violent, sins

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Dakota_Roberts said:
Inordinata in that case simply means it directs one away from order, divorce is against the order of marriage, masturbation is against the order of union of spouses in marriage, homosexual attractions are against the natural order of sexual attraction to the opposite sex.

It’s fairly apparent that in many/most cases the inclination is not chosen, after all if you could stop choosing them why would some people kill themselves because they are that desparate to not be gay.
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Compulsions are hard to explain. Anorexia victims starve themselves to death, convinced to the end, that they are overweight. What is true of all of us: original sin makes it very hard for us to see ourselves for what we really are. The saints are those who finally attain that clear vision and then act on it.
 
RobbyS said:
Compulsions are hard to explain. Anorexia victims starve themselves to death, convinced to the end, that they are overweight. What is true of all of us: original sin makes it very hard for us to see ourselves for what we really are. The saints are those who finally attain that clear vision and then act on it.
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Saints are people who made it to heaven, die in a state of grace and you get there eventually.
 
fix said:
I have no idea why you responded to my posted with this?

My point was that people respond to the “gay” agenda because it is a threat to society on multiple levels.
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And I have no idea why you chose not to use the entire post or to answer the question I raised in the part you chose to exclude.
 
Seeker1961 said:
And I have no idea why you chose not to use the entire post or to answer the question I raised in the part you chose to exclude.
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I addressed the point in question. If you want to talk about “gay” parades and “converts” and birth issues that is fine but I never raised those issues.
 
fix said:
I addressed the point in question. If you want to talk about “gay” parades and “converts” and birth issues that is fine but I never raised those issues.
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I must have missed that description of how you chose who you were attracted to…sorry.
 
ASimon said:
Gay people aren’t trying to be seen as sinless - they don’t accept the implied premise that their acts are sinful. What they are doing is trying to be seen as deserving the equal protections of the 14th Amendment.

You need to get it out of your head that everybody else is walking around living life on your terms. Most homosexuals don’t lose one minute of sleep worrying about whether people like you think they’re violating God’s laws.
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You may as well have just typed “That’s your opinion!”

*Obviously *it’s his (her?) opinion. That didn’t need to be said, and it’s hardly fruitful to say as much. If you think it’s wrong, you may as well say why.
 
sw85 said:
You may as well have just typed “That’s your opinion!”

*Obviously *it’s his (her?) opinion. That didn’t need to be said, and it’s hardly fruitful to say as much. If you think it’s wrong, you may as well say why.
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Why would I do that? The argument I’m responding to is based on the premise that one’s motives for their behavior can be assumed in advance.

I re-state my point - there is an underlying arrogance to the faith position that assumes everyone in the world either agrees on this subject (and affirms it), or agrees on this subject (and pretends not to). The idea that certain people might completely disagree with your argument, right down to its premise, is completely lost on them.

This is how children argue, and one thing is clear - the last thing they need is a catalogue of reasons why they’re wrong. What they need is a swift, blunt, reality check. And I’m here to help.
 
ASimon said:
Why would I do that? The argument I’m responding to is based on the premise that one’s motives for their behavior can be assumed in advance.

I re-state my point - there is an underlying arrogance to the faith position that assumes everyone in the world either agrees on this subject (and affirms it), or agrees on this subject (and pretends not to). The idea that certain people might completely disagree with your argument, right down to its premise, is completely lost on them.

This is how children argue, and one thing is clear - the last thing they need is a catalogue of reasons why they’re wrong. What they need is a swift, blunt, reality check. And I’m here to help.
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Sorry but there is an underlying arrogance to your position. You seem to think that you are God, when you are not. We believe in a God who dictates what the natural law is and the Apostles and their successors relay that truth, from God, to everyone else. There is only one Truth. There can not be several truths. We believe that homosexuality is disordered. You can argue that our Truth is incorrect if you like but you can’t make the argument that we are arrogant because of our belief. We can however argue that you are arrogant because you are making yourself a god by spreading your version of the truth as if it were The Truth, which it is not.
 
BRZ said:
Sorry but there is an underlying arrogance to your position. You seem to think that you are God, when you are not. We believe in a God who dictates what the natural law is and the Apostles and their successors relay that truth, from God, to everyone else. There is only one Truth. There can not be several truths. We believe that homosexuality is disordered. You can argue that our Truth is incorrect if you like but you can’t make the argument that we are arrogant because of our belief. We can however argue that you are arrogant because you are making yourself a god by spreading your version of the truth as if it were The Truth, which it is not.
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Sorry, but when you start talking about your position in terms of what it “dictates,” and that there being “One Truth” and it’s yours - this is the language of totalitarianism.

It’s laughable that you think I’m trying to take God’s place here. I’m not presuming to run your life for you. I only presume to run my own life, in accordance with my needs and the real, tangible consequences it has on others - not the imagined consequences of those who presume to speak for the Creator of the Universe.
 
ASimon said:
Sorry, but when you start talking about your position in terms of what it “dictates,” and that there being “One Truth” and it’s yours - this is the language of totalitarianism.
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By your own logic the above statement is consistent with totalitarianism.
t’s laughable that you think I’m trying to take God’s place here. I’m not presuming to run your life for you. I only presume to run my own life, in accordance with my needs and the real, tangible consequences it has on others - not the imagined consequences of those who presume to speak for the Creator of the Universe.
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No one is running anyone’s life.
 
ASimon said:
Why would I do that? The argument I’m responding to is based on the premise that one’s motives for their behavior can be assumed in advance.

I re-state my point - there is an underlying arrogance to the faith position that assumes everyone in the world either agrees on this subject (and affirms it), or agrees on this subject (and pretends not to). The idea that certain people might completely disagree with your argument, right down to its premise, is completely lost on them.

This is how children argue, and one thing is clear - the last thing they need is a catalogue of reasons why they’re wrong. What they need is a swift, blunt, reality check. And I’m here to help.
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Ok, so if one states 2+2=4 that means one is arrogant?
 
fix said:
Do you have a point?
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Of course, but you’re doing a bang up job of ignoring it. That’s ok, when it comes to sexual orientation it seems that it is very difficult if not impossible for the majority to put themselves in the position of the minority. To really understand what it feels like, you have to imagine yourself in a universe where you are the one who is different. Could you life a life knowing that you could NEVER act on your attractions? What kind of support would you need in that situation? How would reading or hearing some of the comments made here and elsewhere make you feel about yourself or about the people making them? Would you even consider turning to a God that those people claim to follow?

I was lucky. I had supportive Sisters and Priests in my life that helped me. I have parents who love me unconditionally. I was introduced to a God who loved me as I was and assured me that He would walk every step of a lonely journey with me. That’s the only way I have been able to follow Him in the face of the attitudes of many of my Christian brothers and sisters.
 
fix said:
By your own logic the above statement is consistent with totalitarianism.
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No. It’s not totalitarian to point out that someone else’s rhetoric is consistent with totalitarianism. On the other hand, claiming that you’re in the possession of the Absolute Truth, sourced from an eternal, unchangeable, perfectly moral and wise God-head is quite consistent with it.
No one is running anyone’s life.
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That’s because, A) - I’m not attempting to run anyone’s life, and B) - your attempts to do so are impotent.
Ok, so if one states 2+2=4 that means one is arrogant?
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We’re not talking about the preschool math problem here, so please stop trying to derail things with false analogies.
 
ASimon said:
No. It’s not totalitarian to point out that someone else’s rhetoric is consistent with totalitarianism. On the other hand, claiming that you’re in the possession of the Absolute Truth, sourced from an eternal, unchangeable, perfectly moral and wise God-head is quite consistent with it.
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Is that an absolutely true statement?
That’s because, A) - I’m not attempting to run anyone’s life, and B) - your attempts to do so are impotent.
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I have no idea of your point.
We’re not talking about the preschool math problem here, so please stop trying to derail things with false analogies.
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Truth is truth, correct? Is claiming 2+2=4 an imposition on you?
 
Seeker1961 said:
Of course, but you’re doing a bang up job of ignoring it. That’s ok, when it comes to sexual orientation it seems that it is very difficult if not impossible for the majority to put themselves in the position of the minority. To really understand what it feels like, you have to imagine yourself in a universe where you are the one who is different. Could you life a life knowing that you could NEVER act on your attractions? What kind of support would you need in that situation? How would reading or hearing some of the comments made here and elsewhere make you feel about yourself or about the people making them? Would you even consider turning to a God that those people claim to follow?

I was lucky. I had supportive Sisters and Priests in my life that helped me. I have parents who love me unconditionally. I was introduced to a God who loved me as I was and assured me that He would walk every step of a lonely journey with me. That’s the only way I have been able to follow Him in the face of the attitudes of many of my Christian brothers and sisters.
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My point was referring to the attempt to change society. Every single point that is made regarding the moral law is seen as an assault or called hate by some.
 
fix said:
Is that an absolutely true statement?

I have no idea of your point.

Truth is truth, correct? Is claiming 2+2=4 an imposition on you?
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Silly, evasive word games don’t let you off the hook, I’m afraid. But I understand, given what you’d be otherwise forced to concede, that you have no choice but to play them.
 
fix said:
My point was referring to the attempt to change society. Every single point that is made regarding the moral law is seen as an assault or called hate by some.
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And if you really put yourself in the shoes of those condemned you might understand why they feel that way.

I wasn’t convinced to return to the Church by being called a threat to society, disordered or unnatural. I wasn’t led back to the Church by wagging fingers telling me how sinful I was. I was loved back by good people who wanted me to know Jesus.

If anyone here is really serious about “loving the sinner” then wouldn’t it be a good idea to place yourself in that other person’s shoes to find out how to help them change their life?
 
Do you have any suggestions? I’m a sinner but by the Grace of God, have not fallen too far. I had no problem working with homosexual persons or dating the formerly bisexual young lady who gave her life to Christ.

I did have a problem when I saw same-sex marriage on the ballot at my State voting booth. Who needs my permission to live how they want? Nobody. But why was my permission asked for at all?

There are people around the world, right now, who don’t care one bit what anyone else thinks about what they’re doing or how they’re living. But the moment it’s on the ballot, the honest question is why?

Peace,
Ed
 
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