Why suicide is wrong, when someone is in real pain

[AnneElizabeth]

. Christ experienced the greatest emotional, psychological and physical pain any one ever could and yet he never lost hope.

.

I’m sorry, but I just have to question this statement of yours… Of what part of “My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?” means Jesus had hope? He just said God forsook him. That sounds pretty hopeless to me.

Just wondering if you can clear that up for me.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

If life is precious in the eyes of god why natural death exist?

Because of sin. Death exists because of sin. There was no death before the first sin.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I know there are those who won’t agree with me, but I don’t consider those who jumped from the Twin Towers as committing suicide. I believe God surrounded them with His angels as they fell to their deaths.

I am in agreement that they did not commit suicide, but rather passed out and fell out or they were in such a state of need* of preserving life *that when their bodies had had enough of the smoke inhalation, and in delirium, they just instinctively went where the fresh air was. I hope that did not sound inconsiderate in anyway, but just wanted to agree with you that it was more of a preservation of life thing than a taking of life- even though that is not what it appears to be.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

My question would be, what’s the rush? Killing yourself doesn’t end the pain. Pain is a sign of life - it’s a sign that your body is resisting death, and seeking its own good health.

But it hurts, makes your life a misery, and to know that what you’re suffering from can only be cured by death simply adds insult to injury.

The pain of this world is not the worst thing that can happen to us.

As an atheist, I would disagree. But that’s not really a dispute we can resolve, so…

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Pain is not necessarily a sign of seeking a good health.

If pain isn’t the worst thing, then what is the worst thing?

ETERNAL pain, confusion, hurt, darkness, fear, suffering, love-lessness, never any pleasure, torture-psycologically, mentally, spiritually, physically. ETERNALLY.

Pain is hurtful, but imagine if it were ETERNAL. That’s why it is better to wait and suffer through. I can imagine that is why people with long term suffering probably do consider suicide- because it already FEELS eternal to them, but it is not.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

As an atheist you probably won’t understand, but we see life as a gift. A gift from God.

It’s wrong to believe that I think life is worthless. I believe there is a good chance this will be the only life you’re going to get, so it certainly shouldn’t be wasted.

ETERNAL pain, confusion, hurt, darkness, fear, suffering, love-lessness, never any pleasure, torture-psycologically, mentally, spiritually, physically. ETERNALLY.

Pain is hurtful, but imagine if it were ETERNAL. That’s why it is better to wait and suffer through. I can imagine that is why people with long term suffering probably do consider suicide- because it already FEELS eternal to them, but it is not.

But, I don’t believe in any such thing, and neither do lots of people.

 

[User124]

Because of sin. Death exists because of sin. There was no death before the first sin.

Animals and insects had no first sin and they die, death exists whether there is a first sin or not. Even none of us was Adam or Eve (Supposing they were real - which I very highly doubt), when someone commits a crime, you put that person in jail and make them pay for their faults, you don’t put their children or animals. Is Human justice better than the godly one?

 

[AnneElizabeth]

But, I don’t believe in any such thing, and neither do lots of people.

Yes, and that is your choice.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Is Human justice better than the godly one?

User124, **Death is not so much a punishment as it is a result of sin. **

If my dad tells me, “Anne, make sure you brush your teeth every night”, and I question him and decide brushing my teeth is seemingly so foolish- why even bother? After all, my teeth are fine as they are! And so I don’t, but later I find out I have cavities and have to have my dad pay for the dental bills (because I certainly don’t have any money) this took away from the funds that were supposed to go towards maintaining our swimming pool, and thus we can’t use it. My dad is not being unfair. He isn’t even punishing me or my family. He even warned me ahead of time. I was the one being unfair. I decided* I *knew better. I didn’t believe him.

What ended up happening was my sin of disobeying brought suffering to my whole family. None of my family could swim in the swimming pool because we no longer had the funds to pay for the chemicals to treat it which instead went towards fixing my cavities which could have been prevented if I just listened to my dad.

My dad did nothing unfair. I could have asked him, “Dad why is brushing your teeth so important?” Or “Dad, what is the big deal about getting cavities?”…and he would have tried his best to explain to me why. However, instead I believed what I wanted to believe and disregarded his warning. I chose to believe I wouldn’t get cavities and I didn’t believe in them mostly because I never had experienced the suffering of one before, nor understood the consequences of having one that needs fixed-- $$$$$ and suffering- not just for me either, but for everyone… maybe even or family dog who liked to swim in the pool with us too.

^semi true story^ We didn’t have a dog who liked to swim in the pool… that was just to demonstrate that sin causes suffering for all. I have a mouth full of cavities though, and yes, I used to not brush my teeth, but I was about five years old at the time.

God is not unfair. We are unfair to Him and others when we sin. He has tried to warn us before hand that there will be consequences. Its up to us to try our best to get to know, love and serve Him.

By the way, punishment never brings back any result of any crime. What I mean by that is, if you punish a rapist, the person raped doesn’t get back what was ripped from them, If you punish a molester, it doesn’t bring back the children’s innocence or the harm done to them does not get wiped away. If a vandal is punished, perhaps maybe he would be made to pay back the victim, but if what was vandalized or destroyed was one of a kind, then it can never be actually repaid. Human justice in this respects is a ‘time out’ for those who obviously need the time to think about what they did, so that they can truly repent. It is not vindication in any shape or form. Sin hurts God and everyone.

I wouldn’t ever dare say human justice is better than Gods. No way. Have you read what people have done to one another as far as ‘justice’ goes? Not cool. Hatfield and McCoy? Do you think their lives were grand? God is merciful and even patient, not a whole lot of humans are! God didn’t put anyone in ‘jail’ because of death. Adam and Eve did, but even though they did, God promised to send a savior, and He did.

By the way have you ever read St. Paul stating in the epistles how now that he is in Christ Jesus that death has no sting… That living is a well as dying… as both are ok as he is in Christ Jesus. ???

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Just wanted to add as well that sometimes it is the pain of being alone in pain and suffering that is much more difficult to bear than the pain caused by whatever ailment. Christ Jesus calls us to help others who are in pain by being for them, helping them, making sure they don’t feel like a burden, … being there for them to listen and care. I would have to estimate that most who have long term painful illnesses consider suicide more from the pain and hurt of the loneliness rather than the pain itself that these illnesses can bring on.

Suffering with love is MUCH MUCH better than suffering without love… I can tell you that much I know is true.

How many people have you visited in an old folks home? How many hospital visits have you done last week? Most people just sweep the sick ‘under the carpet’. Most people don’t want to see pain. Lets face it, its scary. But their suffering can be alleviated if someone with even just a little bit of love steps in and cares for them. In turn, we can find out suffering doesn’t have to be so scary when we learn to embrace what it has to teach us, offer us… something of which is love.

How many of Mother Teresa’s patients thanked her and her sisters for at least just being there? Most people don’t want to even bother ‘being there’ for anyone anymore. Or they don’t know how because the generation before them did the same also.

Suicide is still wrong and is always wrong, however God is the one to judge. And with that we can have hope.

 

[john78]

why is suicide wrong when someone is in real pain…

I have been affected by suicide, and never thought I would, multiple times in fact… I had a fellow solider in my time in the army elude to the fact he wanted to commit suicide, and a coworker i was friendly with, committed suicide, and I regret not at least having the chance to intervene in his life and help him… the most i can do for him now is pray for his soul.

instead of asking why is suicide wrong, or debating the right to ends one life if they are in real physical pain, or has some terminal disease and how it would be better to stop that persons suffering by them being able to end their life on their own…

or perhaps debate about how suicide is not a sin if one has natural mental problems and thus did not commit suicide freely…

instead of discussing that

why are we not discussing how we can make these peoples lives better, do we not discuss how we can improve their lives, reach out to them when we see signs, or provide some comfort to those with terminal unsolvable medical problems because we find it too hard to handle and are too scared to even try ?

we just throw up our hands and say oh well we know we cant fix the problem why bother helping ?

A shame there is always debates on ending ones life and is suicide wrong in this instance or that,

and not more debates on what we can do to identify and help those who need help, and are too afraid to seek help, even those people with zero chance of being medically cured, what can we do to show them that Christ loves them, and that we as brothers and sisters in Christ are with them till the end and how do we as Christians provide support to those families dealing with terminally ill family members.

 

[User124]

User124, **Death is not so much a punishment as it is a result of sin. **

If my dad tells me, “Anne, make sure you brush your teeth every night”…

By the way have you ever read St. Paul stating in the epistles how now that he is in Christ Jesus that death has no sting… That living is a well as dying… as both are ok as he is in Christ Jesus. ???

When someone doubts “The Catholic God”, for some reasons related to our human thoughs, people say : You can’t compare god to humans.
In the example you mentioned you are comparing God to humans to prove your point.
The difference here is that God is all powerful and supposed to be better than humans, he is able to make ONLY Adam and Eve pay for what they did, and even he would forgive them, and do not make a world where billions of species are suffering.
You mean? :
“And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.”

Instead of asking why is suicide wrong, or debating the right to ends one life if they are in real physical pain, or has some terminal disease and how it would be better to stop that persons suffering by them being able to end their life on their own…

why are we not discussing how we can make these peoples lives better, do we not discuss how we can improve their lives, reach out to them when we see signs, or provide some comfort to those with terminal unsolvable medical problems because we find it too hard to handle and are too scared to even try ?

I don’t advocate suicide, but in some situations (maybe few), it could be the only solution. However even that I don’t encourage suicide, I see that everyone is free to do whatever they want in their lives as long as they avoid hurting anyone by doing their will.

To to not forget, we are not all loving or all powerful, we did not create those people and made them suffer, it’s not our responsibility to help them if a god exists, he’s responsible.
Turning into a disbeliever made me care for others, because I knew that no god is looking after them, it’s our responsibility as beings on earth to feel with each others.

 

[meltzerboy]

When someone doubts “The Catholic God”, for some reasons related to our human thoughs, people say : You can’t compare god to humans.
In the example you mentioned you are comparing God to humans to prove your point.
The difference here is that God is all powerful and supposed to be better than humans, he is able to make ONLY Adam and Eve pay for what they did, and even he would forgive them, and do not make a world where billions of species are suffering.
You mean? :
“And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.”



I don’t advocate suicide, but in some situations (maybe few), it could be the only solution. However even that I don’t encourage suicide, I see that everyone is free to do whatever they want in their lives as long as they avoid hurting anyone by doing their will.

To to not forget, we are not all loving or all powerful, we did not create those people and made them suffer, it’s not our responsibility to help them if a god exists, he’s responsible.
Turning into a disbeliever made me care for others, because I knew that no god is looking after them, it’s our responsibility as beings on earth to feel with each others.

I think that our inability to compare humans to G-d does not mean that the reasoning power we were given by G-d is false or not at all the same as G-d’s mind. If that were so, it would mean G-d is deceiving us. Rather than this, we are not given all the information, so to speak, about the nature of G-d and His purpose, and therefore we often misunderstand what G-d’s intentions for our lives are. Why should this be? In keeping with Jewish thought, I believe it is because G-d wishes us to be active partners in repairing the world instead of passive recipients. The human role we are given is to comfort others, have mercy, be just, acquire knowledge and wisdom, and in these ways become closer to G-d. We are indeed our brothers’ and sisters’ keepers. G-d created us in His image, meaning that we have all these internal capacities, but it is nonetheless our choice whether, how, and to what extent we decide to put them to use.

 

[User124]

I think that our inability to compare humans to G-d does not mean that the reasoning power we were given by G-d is false or not at all the same as G-d’s mind. If that were so, it would mean G-d is deceiving us. Rather than this, we are not given all the information, so to speak, about the nature of G-d and His purpose, and therefore we often misunderstand what G-d’s intentions for our lives are. Why should this be? In keeping with Jewish thought, I believe it is because G-d wishes us to be active partners in repairing the world instead of passive recipients. The human role we are given is to comfort others, have mercy, be just, acquire knowledge and wisdom, and in these ways become closer to G-d. We are indeed our brothers’ and sisters’ keepers. G-d created us in His image, meaning that we have all these internal capacities, but it is nonetheless our choice whether, how, and to what extent we decide to put them to use.

What we as humans are able to make in thousands of years to reduce suffer and pain, a god is able to do it in a moment.
Why would God depends on Humans to provide help for others who are in pain and misery, why taking a risk and being in his plan unjust to billions, and counting on humans to help the others in pain when we are failing, it’s like using us in a field experience, no matter how it would be painful.

 

[meltzerboy]

What we as humans are able to make in thousands of years to reduce suffer and pain, a god is able to do it in a moment.
Why would God depends on Humans to provide help for others who are in pain and misery, why taking a risk and being in his plan unjust to billions, and counting on humans to help the others in pain when we are failing, it’s like using us in a field experience, no matter how it would be painful.

So you’re saying G-d’s plan wouldn’t pass the American Psychological Association’s ethical guidelines for research with human participants and animals? No, it probably wouldn’t. And that’s the part I spoke of that we do not understand and often misinterpret. Sure, G-d could have done everything for us; he might have bypassed creating us as men and women altogether and made us angels. But there would have been something lacking in that case, namely our sense of curiosity, achievement, creativity, striving for improvement. We would have had to relinquish our present nature: our uniquely human feelings, thoughts, drives, behaviors, as well as our free will. Instead, G-d has chosen to make us partners-in-love, in justice, in reason, in wisdom. It’s not such a bad trade-off when you think about it.

 

[Dorothy]

But, what if you’re suffering from a very painful disease, knowing that you will die in a matter of weeks/months? Why is it wrong for someone to kill themselves, since they’re going to die but they’ll simply cut out the pain? What about cases in which the prison is suffering from something that won’t kill them, but would still make their life a misery, such as the case of Terry Pratchett and his Alzheimer’s?

I may have missed it, but I didn’t notice anyone mentioning that those in terrible pain may have strong pain killers to help them in their last days. The Church is not against pain medication, even if it naturally hastens death. What the Church is against is the deliberate ending of the life of the one in pain.

In watching my husband die, who had home hospice, I was very aware that a conversation with the Lord goes on with the dying person. No one should interfere with that dialogue. He had a happy and holy death surrounded by myself and all of our eight children. (adults).

 

[User124]

So you’re saying G-d’s plan wouldn’t pass the American Psychological Association’s ethical guidelines for research with human participants and animals? No, it probably wouldn’t. And that’s the part I spoke of that we do not understand and often misinterpret. Sure, G-d could have done everything for us; he might have bypassed creating us as men and women altogether and made us angels. But there would have been something lacking in that case, namely our sense of curiosity, achievement, creativity, striving for improvement. We would have had to relinquish our present nature: our uniquely human feelings, thoughts, drives, behaviors, as well as our free will. Instead, G-d has chosen to make us partners-in-love, in justice, in reason, in wisdom. It’s not such a bad trade-off when you think about it.

I think we could still taste the best things in life without suffer, if truly an all-powerful and all-loving god exists, he wouldn’t created anyone able to suffer, or at least he would do something instead of watching with no sense of pity, which is one of the reasons that make me realize that such a god isn’t even possible.
You may say Adam and Eve were in Heaven, but it appears very much to me as an excuse story, no evidences for it, plenty of evidences to dismiss it, and the God in that story looks very much like an unethical childish.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

So you’re saying G-d’s plan…

Off topic for just a moment. Why do Jews use the word “G-d” instead of “God” when writing? (No disrespect intended; it’s an honest question.)

 

[maryjk]

I think we could still taste the best things in life without suffer, if truly an all-powerful and all-loving god exists, he wouldn’t created anyone able to suffer, or at least he would do something instead of watching with no sense of pity, which is one of the reasons that make me realize that such a god isn’t even possible.
You may say Adam and Eve were in Heaven, but it appears very much to me as an excuse story, no evidences for it, plenty of evidences to dismiss it, and the God in that story looks very much like an unethical childish.

I anyone else getting the feeling that this thread should have been titled,

I don’t believe, neither should you.

 

[meltzerboy]

Off topic for just a moment. Why do Jews use the word “G-d” instead of “God” when writing? (No disrespect intended; it’s an honest question.)

It’s to ensure that the name of G-d won’t be erased or, in the computer age, deleted, either intentionally or unintentionally. IOW, it’s a form of reverence and respect. Alternatively, one might also write Gd. Similarly, in saying the name of G-d, the word HaShem is used, which is not the full name since one thereby expresses a sense of awe.