Why the Catholic Church Is Wise to Ban Condoms

[JamesG]

Aquarius:

You told us about the money. Don’t you know?

I think the money lost could be a variable depending on how much you know about democrating investments on a party level and personal level.

Since I am not an american I can’t really give you an exact number. Perhaps you could help fill in the blanks yourself.

Regardless the fact remains that there is a lot of money to be made from selling birth control to affrica.

25 million people in uganda alone = millions of dollars in birth control sales.

I also question the ethics of it because clearly the facts say that birth control does not stop AIDS at all. Uganda is the best example of this.

 

[Rosalinda]

In response to post #107 by Nohome in fairness the context of what Mr. Green was saying and who he was referring to in his comments should be completed.

“It is not ‘abstinence only’ or ‘condoms only.’ Both are needed. There is a need for condoms, if A and B fail. Some people will never change their behavior,” said Edward C. Green, a Harvard University anthropologist who is at the forefront of bringing attention to ABC.

He said that specific high-risk groups — like prostitutes and their customers — are unlikely to change and, therefore, need condoms for protection. But what happened in Uganda appears to be proof that the general population can and will change its behavior. In the end, said Mr. Green, the most significant behavioral change may have come through B, stressing fidelity in marriage or in monogamous relationships.

usaid.gov/press/releases/2003/uganda030313.html

The point of this original thread “Why the Catholic Church Is Wise to Ban Condoms”. The teaching against contraceptives is infallible and there are no ‘what if’s’ or ‘buts’ about it: it will not change. Like a good shepherd the Lord does want a single sheep to be lost and therefore no exceptions are permitted. In proclaiming the truth in season and out of season Popes Benedict, John Paul II and Paul VI have wisely built their house on a rock. The dismal failure of the short-sighted health experts to plaster the world with condoms is proof they built their house on sand and they have been washed away. All this rhetoric about the “little c” is a face-saving ploy.

 

[Rosalinda]

Originally posted by Nohome.

Anyhow, while I agree that one can not blame the Pope for the AIDS tragedy in Africa, the Church is foolish to just dismiss evidence that condoms are PART of the solution.

“The Church is the Bride of Christ: he loved her and handed himself over for her. He has purified her by his blood and made her the fruitful mother of all God’s children.” CCC 808

No mother is “foolish” who tells her children not to play with fire. Even President Museveni, as a father, told his children not to engage in sex before marriage and did not want them using condoms. The evidence is in, though it is still not widely promulgated in the media nor in our schools, that condoms while they may offer some protection, are just not worth the risk. A few fleeting moments of pleasure is a bad return for contracting either a chronic or a deadly sexually transmitted disease. One example other than AIDS, the condom offers no protection against HPV and the resulting cervical cancer kills far more women in the U.S. annually than does AIDS.

Nohome, condoms aren’t part of the solution; rather they are part of the problem and the Church wisely points that out.

 

[Nohome]

Rosalinda:

The Church is the Bride of Christ: he loved her and handed himself over for her. He has purified her by his blood and made her the fruitful mother of all God’s children." CCC 808

You do realize that only a fraction of Africa is Catholic and that the CCC is meaningless to a huge number of Africans.

Rosalinda:

Nohome, condoms aren’t part of the solution; rather they are part of the problem and the Church wisely points that out.

Time will tell, the “C” in “ABC” is getting less play in Uganda and other places. It takes about five years for the virus to respond to policy changes. I have read that early results indicate that AIDS is back on the rise in Uganda, but that is yet to be quantified in a study. I’ll post links if you like, but at this time I think it is just hearsay.

The RCC can preach whatever it likes and I don’t expect it to change its’ position on birth control. The fact is that the Church pretends to lead and the people pretend to follow. In the end, I believe Africa will ignore church teaching just like the rest of the world.

Nohome

 

[Nohome]

JamesG:

I don’t think you understand what I am trying to say.

We can agree on that.

JamesG:

When the dems or the reps claim that they are doing something for the greater good I have to question that.

JamesG:

Unlike you, I am not an american that thinks in terms of left or right.

I have been all over the planet. I can assure you that “left and right” politics is not an uniquely American experience. With the exception of the impovrished, who think only about food, water and shelter, all politics of the world are left and right. There are no exceptions, even under dictatorships.

Nohome

 

[setter]

Nohome:

The fact is that the Church pretends to lead and the people pretend to follow.
Nohome

I am sorry that this has been your observationand/or experience. The assent to faith and obediance to God ordained authority is a choice after all.

“Then once more you shall distinguish between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve him.” Malachi 3:18

 

[Rosalinda]

Originally posted by Nohomme.

You do realize that only a fraction of Africa is Catholic and that the CCC is meaningless to a huge number of Africans.

I was responding to your disparaging remark about the Catholic Church being “foolish”.

 

[Rosalinda]

Nohome in post #168 said, “I can’t argue with Dr. Green…Kind of like I’ve been saying all along.” While he does support condoms, in limited circumstances, I don’t think Dr. Green is as enthusiastic a supporter as Nohome seems to think. At the end of the article, “This Should Have Been Anthropology 101”: Quiet Breathroughs in Africa’s War on AID’s" the doctor mused the following:

“How did we ever think we could solve AIDS with just condoms, drugs and testing? That would be like solving the global lung cancer problem with just better filters on cigarettes, and lower-tar cigarettes.”

tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=122704X

 

[Aquarius]

JamesG:

I think the money lost could be a variable depending on how much you know about democrating investments on a party level and personal level.

Since I am not an american I can’t really give you an exact number. Perhaps you could help fill in the blanks yourself.

Regardless the fact remains that there is a lot of money to be made from selling birth control to affrica.

25 million people in uganda alone = millions of dollars in birth control sales.

I also question the ethics of it because clearly the facts say that birth control does not stop AIDS at all. Uganda is the best example of this.

So, the answer is unknown.

 

[JamesG]

Nohome:

You do realize that only a fraction of Africa is Catholic and that the CCC is meaningless to a huge number of Africans.

Time will tell, the “C” in “ABC” is getting less play in Uganda and other places. It takes about five years for the virus to respond to policy changes. I have read that early results indicate that AIDS is back on the rise in Uganda, but that is yet to be quantified in a study. I’ll post links if you like, but at this time I think it is just hearsay.

The RCC can preach whatever it likes and I don’t expect it to change its’ position on birth control. The fact is that the Church pretends to lead and the people pretend to follow. In the end, I believe Africa will ignore church teaching just like the rest of the world.

Nohome

if only a fraction of affrica is catholic then why are you so worried about the the church stoping you?

In uganda over 80 % are christian over 45% are catholic. that is about 20 million christians who follow the teachings of christ.

 

[JamesG]

Aquarius:

So, the answer is unknown.

No it can have many values.

It doesn’t have to be unknown, but you chose to ignore rational logic then that is your choice.

I think it is quite obvious that a huge amount of money was lost. like I said even if only 1 $ was made for each catholic in uganda that would be over 10 million.

 

[Nohome]

JamesG:

No it can have many values.

Yesterday you asked:

Do you have any idea how much money the US Dems lost because they couldn’t sell birth control to a few of the affrican nations ?

Aquarius obviously didn’t know and asked “how much”.

You provided a bizzare equation, that was incorrect I might add, and told him to figure it out for himself. He didn’t use the dollar figure as an argument, you did, but you want to place the burden of proof on Aquarius?

JamesG:

It doesn’t have to be unknown, but you chose to ignore rational logic then that is your choice.

That is the point, you didn’t use logic. Aquarius caught you using a rehtorical question as support of your position. You can’t provide any dollar figure at all, let alone tell what percent was a loss to the “dems”.

JamesG:

I think it is quite obvious that a huge amount of money was lost. like I said even if only 1 $ was made for each catholic in uganda that would be over 10 million.

You can’t quantify it, you can’t even estimate it and you can’t name any company that suffered huge losses because of it. Give it up, your argument doesn’t hold water.

Nohome

 

[Nohome]

Rosalinda:

I was responding to your disparaging remark about the Catholic Church being “foolish”.

Then you must know that I am not Catholic, which is why your reference to the CCC is meaningless (to me).

Nohome

 

[Nohome]

Rosalinda:

While he does support condoms, in limited circumstances, I don’t think Dr. Green is as enthusiastic a supporter as Nohome seems to think.

I never assessed Dr. Green’s enthusiasm for condoms, nor did I express my own. I simply pointed out that he does not rule them out, unlike the RCC.

We are closer to agreeing on this issue than you realize. The only difference is that you would completely eliminate condoms where I would reserve them as a last resort.

Nohome

 

[BlindSheep]

Aquarius:

Does extramarital sex include sex between two unmarried people? If so, why is it unwise from a sociologiclal psychological or health perspective?

Of course it does. If you think sex between unmarried people is not linked to negative social and psychological consequences, you need to do a little research. If you think it is not linked to negative health consequences, you have forgotten the topic of this thread…
But my point was, even if all those consequences were somehow prevented, it would still be immoral.

 

[BlindSheep]

Nohome:

You do realize that only a fraction of Africa is Catholic and that the CCC is meaningless to a huge number of Africans.

Good point - therefore, the Church’s teaching is irrelevant and liberals should stop pointing fingers at the Pope. If they want condoms promoted, they can (and do) promote them themselves.

 

[JamesG]

Nohome:

Then you must know that I am not Catholic, which is why your reference to the CCC is meaningless (to me).

Nohome

So why do you expect us not to consider what you say to be meaningless?

 

[JamesG]

Nohome:

You provided a bizzare equation, that was incorrect I might add, and told him to figure it out for himself. He didn’t use the dollar figure as an argument, you did, but you want to place the burden of proof on Aquarius?

That is the point, you didn’t use logic. Aquarius caught you using a rehtorical question as support of your position. You can’t provide any dollar figure at all, let alone tell what percent was a loss to the “dems”.

You can’t quantify it, you can’t even estimate it and you can’t name any company that suffered huge losses because of it. Give it up, your argument doesn’t hold water.

Nohome

Are you saying that US didn’t lose any money from the situation?

I don’t think I need to provide a dollar figure at all.

My point is that most people don’t stop to ask the question regarding motive.

Can you honestly say that the US cares about the people in affrica?

I hoestly don’t know enough about american companies to answer the questions that you are demanding. Perhaps you could gather a list of all the companies that would benift from all the sales.

Also how would you modify the equation so that it would be valid?

It just seems to me that there is money to be made in affrica. How can you reject that fact? I think you will first have to prove that birth control manufacturers would not make money from the affrican population.

 

[JamesG]

BlindSheep:

Good point - therefore, the Church’s teaching is irrelevant and liberals should stop pointing fingers at the Pope. If they want condoms promoted, they can (and do) promote them themselves.

This is exactly why I think there is another motive behind it.

I mean since when has the us ever cared about the people of affrica? They don’t even care about their own black population. What gives them the right to stick their nose in affrica?

They should first take the log out of their own eye before they try to take the sliver out of the people of affrica.

oh… I forgot… look at all the money to be made there. Lets invenest our money in birth control manufacturers and then help sales under the banner of policy.

 

[Rosalinda]

Originally posted by Nohome:

Do you have any links that refute that condoms are part of solving the AIDS crisis?

I have provided links with reviews, analysis and reflections based on scientific literature. The Vatican has not only provided moral guidance but has done inexhaustible research. The following footnote expresses “the possibility that the majority of new HIV/AIDS cases in Africa are not due to sexual relationships, but rather to the reuse of needles for injections, given the inadequate sanitary infrastructure in the continent.”

65 According to these authors, up to 70% of new HIV infections in several African regions might be parenteral, especially due to reuse of needles. See Gisselquist, David, Potterat, John, J. et all., Mounting Anomalies in the Epidemiology of HIV in Africa: Cry the Beloved Paradigm, in International Journal of STD & AIDS, 2003/14, pp. 144-147; Gisselquist, David, Potterat John J. et all., Let it Be Sexual: How Health Care Transmission of AIDS in Africa was Ignored, in International Journal of STD & AIDS, 2003/14, pp. 148-161; and British Medical Journal Asserts Coverup in African AIDS Pandemic Claims. AIDS Crisis Caused by Bad Medicine, Not Sex, in Friday Fax Vol 6 (Feb 28, 2003): 10.

Highlights by Rosalinda.
lifeissues.net/writers/tru/tru_01familysafesex2.html