Why the Catholic Church Is Wise to Ban Condoms

[Aquarius]

JamesG:

I don’t think you understand what I am trying to say.

I’m saying that both parties in the US only get their hands in the afairs of other countries if and when there is money to be made or money to be lost.

When the dems or the reps claim that they are doing something for the greater good I have to question that.

The fact is there is money to be made in Iraq and there is money to be made in affrica.

Unlike you, I am not an american that thinks in terms of left or right.

How did the US political parties make money in Bosnia?

 

[Aquarius]

JamesG:

I think the money lost could be a variable depending on how much you know about democrating investments on a party level and personal level.

Since I am not an american I can’t really give you an exact number. Perhaps you could help fill in the blanks yourself.

Regardless the fact remains that there is a lot of money to be made from selling birth control to affrica.

25 million people in uganda alone = millions of dollars in birth control sales.

I also question the ethics of it because clearly the facts say that birth control does not stop AIDS at all. Uganda is the best example of this.

Can we agree that you really have no idea what you aretalking about in regard to US political parties making money off African condoms?

 

[Aquarius]

Rosalinda:

Originally posted by Nohome.

“The Church is the Bride of Christ: he loved her and handed himself over for her. He has purified her by his blood and made her the fruitful mother of all God’s children.” CCC 808

No mother is “foolish” who tells her children not to play with fire. Even President Museveni, as a father, told his children not to engage in sex before marriage and did not want them using condoms. The evidence is in, though it is still not widely promulgated in the media nor in our schools, that condoms while they may offer some protection, are just not worth the risk. A few fleeting moments of pleasure is a bad return for contracting either a chronic or a deadly sexually transmitted disease. One example other than AIDS, the condom offers no protection against HPV and the resulting cervical cancer kills far more women in the U.S. annually than does AIDS.

Nohome, condoms aren’t part of the solution; rather they are part of the problem and the Church wisely points that out.

If the evidence is in, and it’s not widely promulgated in media or schools, how do you know?

 

[Aquarius]

setter:

I am sorry that this has been your observationand/or experience. The assent to faith and obediance to God ordained authority is a choice after all.

“Then once more you shall distinguish between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve him.” Malachi 3:18

It is a choice, and most Catholics have chosen ABC. Yet the American Church keeps quiet on the topic, and the people just keep on doing it. I’d say that’s a bit of pretense on both parts.

 

[Aquarius]

JamesG:

No it can have many values.

It doesn’t have to be unknown, but you chose to ignore rational logic then that is your choice.

I think it is quite obvious that a huge amount of money was lost. like I said even if only 1 $ was made for each catholic in uganda that would be over 10 million.

Well, you made the claim about the money. Just tell us how much?

 

[Aquarius]

BlindSheep:

Of course it does. If you think sex between unmarried people is not linked to negative social and psychological consequences, you need to do a little research. If you think it is not linked to negative health consequences, you have forgotten the topic of this thread…
But my point was, even if all those consequences were somehow prevented, it would still be immoral.

So, how is it unwise from a sociological or health perspective?

 

[Aquarius]

Rosalinda:

Originally posted by Nohome:

I have provided links with reviews, analysis and reflections based on scientific literature. The Vatican has not only provided moral guidance but has done inexhaustible research. The following footnote expresses “the possibility that the majority of new HIV/AIDS cases in Africa are not due to sexual relationships, but rather to the reuse of needles for injections, given the inadequate sanitary infrastructure in the continent.”

Highlights by Rosalinda.
lifeissues.net/writers/tru/tru_01familysafesex2.html

Sounds like an opportunity for needle exchange programs.

 

[JamesG]

Aquarius:

Well, you made the claim about the money. Just tell us how much?

I never said I had the answer. so why do you keep pressing this issue. It just makes you sound ignorant

Will you admit that there is a lot of money for the Us to make in affrica selling birth control?

no you won’t do that . you would much rather ignore the point I’m trying to make by demanind that I answer your question. A question that I never said I had the answer to.

My point is that there is a lot of money to be made. And I wouldn’t be shocked at all if some of that money found its way back into the hands of the dem government (before bush) .

You first have to proove that money is NOT the reason the US is sticking its dirty nose into Affrica where it doesn’t belong.

 

[Aquarius]

JamesG:

I never said I had the answer. so why do you keep pressing this issue. It just makes you sound ignorant

Will you admit that there is a lot of money for the Us to make in affrica selling birth control?

no you won’t do that . you would much rather ignore the point I’m trying to make by demanind that I answer your question. A question that I never said I had the answer to.

My point is that there is a lot of money to be made. And I wouldn’t be shocked at all if some of that money found its way back into the hands of the dem government (before bush) .

You first have to proove that money is NOT the reason the US is sticking its dirty nose into Affrica where it doesn’t belong.

There is not lots of money to be made selling drugs to Africa because the Africans don’t have much money.

Before you told us US political parties were making money. Now you tell us you wouldn’t be shocked if they were? So are they making money or not?

Why do I have to prove anything about the US in Africa? You are the one making the claims about profit.

 

[Robert_Bay]

**General Reminder:

**The charity level of this discussion appears to be deteriorating. Please self-edit for tone and content before clicking the “Submit” button. If the charity level does not improve, this thread will have to be locked. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

 

[BlindSheep]

Aquarius:

So, how is it unwise from a sociological or health perspective?

I have a sneaking suspicion that if I actually post statistics and links to studies, you will use the opportunity to launch into some tangent. Therefore, I suggest that you (and anyone else reading this who wants to know) go google premarital sex and: marriage, depression, divorce, education, poverty, suicide, drug abuse, and google single mothers, too.
Though I honestly find it hard to believe you are not already aware of at least some of the problems with premarital sex.

 

[BlindSheep]

Aquarius:

It is a choice, and most Catholics have chosen ABC.

What’s your point?

Yet the American Church keeps quiet on the topic, and the people just keep on doing it. I’d say that’s a bit of pretense on both parts.

Pretense? How so? I would say it’s lukewarmness and cowardice.

 

[Rosalinda]

originally posted by Aquarius

Sounds like an opportunity for needle exchange programs.

I thought the same thing as you did at first glance but with more careful reading I realized the reference was not referring to drug users rather the researchers were suggesting the physicians in Africa were inadvertently spreading the disease through unsterile needles or medical procedures. Dr. David Gisselquist conclusions are startling and controversial for obvious reasons. It does support the gripe Africans have with Westerners however that money has been wasted on condoms rather than on basic medical supplies such as needles. This is yet another reason why equating the pandemic with a lack of condoms is an unrealistic assumption not born out by reality.

we argue that accumulated evidence supports the hypothesis that unsafe health care fuels Africa’s HIV epidemics.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15228726&query_hl=8&itool=pubmed_docsum

 

[Rosalinda]

Originally posted by Nohome:

The problem in Africa is IV drugs and sex, end of story. If you think telling people to abstain is the answer in a culture where women are property and human rights often don’t exist, you need to learn more about Africa.

Maybe there is more to the story and we all have something to learn about Africa; I know I do. Again from Dr. David Gisslequist found on the website for the National Library of Medicine:

We examine evidence available through 1988, including risk measures associating HIV with sexual behaviour, health care, and socioeconomic variables, HIV in children, and risks for HIV in prostitutes and STD patients. Evidence permits the interpretation that health care exposures caused more HIV than sexual transmission. In general population studies, crude risk measures associate more than half of HIV infections in adults with health care exposures. Early studies did not resolve questions about direction of causation (between injections and HIV) and confound (between injections and STD). Preconceptions about African sexuality and a desire to maintain public trust in health care may have encouraged discounting of evidence.

This suggests poverty is also a factor to add to your list Nohome. Climate could well be another factor; let’s not forget the problem of trained health care professionals leaving their homelands for wealthier countries.

 

[Rosalinda]

Originally posted by Nohome:

We are closer to agreeing on this issue than you realize. The only difference is that you would completely eliminate condoms where I would reserve them as a last resort.

It wasn’t too long ago I was humming the same tune as you. The contraceptive issue was one I had to wrestle with for most of my adult life. Thankfully for the writings of JPII and his beautiful gift of the New Catholic Catechism a lot of my questions have been answered and I have finally found peace.

 

[Rosalinda]

In response to Nohome’s post 177 with regard to Steven Lewis:

Stephen Lewis, the U.N. secretary general’s special envoy for HIV/AIDS in Africa, said fundamentalist Christian ideology was driving Washington’s AIDS assistance program known as PEPFAR with disastrous results, including condom shortages in Uganda.

KAMPALA, Uganda, September 7, 2005, (LifeSiteNews.com) - The ongoing campaign by condom advocate Stephen Lewis, the U.N. secretary general’s special envoy for HIV/AIDS in Africa, has resulted in an open letter to Kofi Annan demanding that Lewis be immediately fired and removed from UNAIDS.

The letter, written by Pastor Martin Ssempa, Director of The Global Center for Uganda’s ABC Strategy, is very direct. “Mr. Lewis”, Ssempa writes, “is using the entire body of the UN for his personal agenda of condomizing the developing nations. Why he has the audacity to fight the only nation which has demonstrated success in reducing HIV/AIDS is utterly beyond me. … Steve seems to have a problem with Bush administration and is fabricating lies to further attack Uganda’s ABC strategy.”…

lifesite.net/ldn/2005/sep/05090701.html

Mr. Lewis has no credibility; just another secular humanist out to destroy traditional monotheistic religions and deconstruct the family.
:tsktsk:

 

[Rosalinda]

Gwendolyn Landolt wrote an excellent article about him recently entitled, The Tiny Mind of Stephen Lewis.

In 1999, Mr. Lewis served as deputy executive director of UNICEF. During his time in office, UNICEF specialized in promoting abortion, contraception and sexual rights for adolescents - largely ignoring health issues, such as malaria, tuberculosis and cholera, as well as the necessity of clean water and improved education for adolescents. That is, these latter needs took a back seat to UNICEF’s demands for adolescent “reproductive health” issues.
Such a priority is typical of the UN which, in the best tradition of 19th century imperialists, determinedly tries to impose liberal western values on the unwilling populations living in the third world

lifesite.net/ldn/2005/dec/051206a.html

The Catholic Church has been made a scapegoat for the real culprit.

 

[Nohome]

Rosalinda:

In response to Nohome’s post 177 with regard to Steven Lewis:

lifesite.net/ldn/2005/sep/05090701.html

Mr. Lewis has no credibility; just another secular humanist out to destroy traditional monotheistic religions and deconstruct the family.
:tsktsk:

Look, you’ve made it abundantly clear that you think condoms are a bad idea. I’ve stated, ad nauseum, that they are a necessary part of any AIDS control program. I won’t succeed in swaying you, you won’t succeend in swaying me. Aquarius has been suspended, we’ve all been warned that this thread is breaking down into a war of words.

The Bush administration has just announced it’s budget for AIDS relief, guess what, condoms support has gone up. It looks like now even the Bush administration is ignoring Rome.

“So condom dollars have gone up, the supply of condoms from the United States had one up dramatically since 2001,” he said. “In fact, just going from 2004 to 2005, we had a great increase in dollars for condoms than abstinence and fidelity. But we have a balanced approach. Those condoms are now provided in the context of what we know works, which is A, B, and C.”

I’m good with this.

Nohome

 

[Rosalinda]

Nohome originally said in post 138:

When I first read this last year, I thought they were on to something. So I followed the source of data and generated a spreadsheet. I compared the AIDS infection rates to the percent Catholic in every African Nation. The numbers listed above are correct, but the author left out a few details, things like:

Lesotho, 70% Catholic, 28.9% infection rate
Niger, 0.10% Catholic, 1.2% infection rate

The population of Lesotho is only 1.8 million; therefore the smaller the population the more distorted the statistics are likely to be. Furthermore, while Niger may have few Catholics, 90% of the population is Islamic. The point is and as the Lancet recognized part of fighting this pandemic will be allowing faith based communities to preach and promote abstinence and faithfulness to one partner. Where governments have worked in co-operation with religious leaders the results have been positive. According to Michael Cook the author of “**Was Karol Wojtyla the Greatest Mass Murderer of the 20th Century?” the real secret for reducing the prevalence of AIDS may be “a deep religious commitment, be it Christianity or Islam.”:clapping: **

 

[Nohome]

Rosalinda:

The population of Lesotho is only 1.8 million; therefore the smaller the population the more distorted the statistics

Since when was 1.8 million too small a population to derive significant statistics?

Rosie, you are going to believe what you want to believe and disregard the rest.

Nohome