Why the Catholic Church Is Wise to Ban Condoms

[Rosalinda]

The success story of Uganda with a population of 27.3 million is remarkable; your Lesotho example with a population of only 1.8 million fails to refute all of Michael Cook’s claims. African nations are not automatically condemned to a painful death without condoms.

As for your worry that AIDS is on the rise once again in Uganda because condoms have been neglected Dr. Green’s testimony before the Senate subcommittee states just the opposite.

…it should be remembered that “zero grazing,” or remaining faithful to one partner, was the main message for the majority of Uganda’s population.

The reason I must say “was” is that Uganda’s AIDS prevention program has gradually changed, perhaps due to the funding priorities of foreign donor organizations. Since the mid-1990’s, there has been less emphasis on sexual behavior and more on medical solutions. In recent years, there has been a small but disturbing trend toward riskier sexual behavior, and for the first time in a decade there has been a slight uptick in national infection rates. The distinctive Uganda ABC model of the earlier period, the one developed primarily by Ugandans for Ugandans, is the one that seems to have worked best, and is the one that has most to teach the rest of the world.

highlights by Rosalinda

foreign.senate.gov/testimony/2003/GreenTestimony030519.pdf

 

[Rosalinda]

To follow-up on posts #219, 232, 233 about how health care may have played a significant role in spreading AIDS in Africa particularly among women during the course of invasive surgical procedures.:bigyikes:

several new meta-analyses reveal that the real culprit may be medical transmission. These studies posit that unsafe injections and other medical exposures to contaminated blood may account for two-thirds or more of the new cases of HIV/AIDS.

These findings have serious implications for current HIV/AIDS programs as practiced by USAID and the Global Fund. Their programs combine, or integrate, HIV/AIDS relief programs with sexual and reproductive health (SRH) programs. Such integrated programs raise the possibility of increased nonsexual transmission. They bring HIV positive and HIV negative patients together in the same ramshackle clinics, and subject both to invasive medical procedures.

This problem has been exacerbated by foreign aid programs that emphasize reproductive health procedures (contraception, sterilization, and abortion) to the near exclusion of primary health care. Clinics are well supplied with Depo-Provera, IUDs, and condoms, but lack health care essentials such as rubber gloves, needles, and disinfectant. Medical equipment, such as syringes and manual vacuum aspirators, cannot be properly disinfected before they are reused.

pop.org/main.cfm?id=213&r1=1.00&r2=3.00&r3=95.00&r4=3.00&level=4&eid=494

 

[Rosalinda]

Originally posted by Nohome:

Since when was 1.8 million too small a population to derive significant statistics?

Rosie, you are going to believe what you want to believe and disregard the rest

I have no pretensions of being an epidemiologist nor does bioethicist Michael Cook. There are numerous factors which contribute to the proliferation of AIDS. While you choose to look at the literacy level as a contributing factor, and it is a good point, I would suggest, and this is pure conjecture on my part, that Lesotho is a land locked country totally surrounded by South Africa which itself is experiencing a high rate of infection 22%; this is significant because 35% of the active male wage earners of Lesotho work in South Africa. It is not outside the realm of possibility that this population is spreading AIDS.

 

[Nohome]

Rosalinda:

Originally posted by Nohome:

I have no pretensions of being an epidemiologist nor does bioethicist Michael Cook. There are numerous factors which contribute to the proliferation of AIDS. While you choose to look at the literacy level as a contributing factor, and it is a good point, I would suggest, and this is pure conjecture on my part, that Lesotho is a land locked country totally surrounded by South Africa which itself is experiencing a high rate of infection 22%; this is significant because 35% of the active male wage earners of Lesotho work in South Africa. It is not outside the realm of possibility that this population is spreading AIDS.

Ah yes, but my point was that this 70% Catholic country has plenty of AIDS. Do you suggest that only nonCatholic males are “working” in South Africa? The original story lead the reader to believe that Catholics are faithful and absatin; therefore, have less AIDS. Your example would be a clear example that AIDS know no religious boundaries.

Nohome

 

[Rosalinda]

Originally stated by Nohome,

The original story lead the reader to believe that Catholics are faithful and absatin; therefore, have less AIDS.

:nope: The original story, “Was Karol Wojtyla the Greatest Mass Murderer of the 20th c.?” was attacking the accusation that the Vatican’s rejection of condoms somehow cost hundreds of thousands of lives. Michael Cook was responding to the doubtful idea behind this criticism; the first one assuming that African Catholics would refrain from using condoms because "the Great White Father told them not to "while engaging in sinful, ex-marital sex. It was a response to a British journalist who compared JPII to Lenin: “they both put extreme ideology before human life and happiness, at unimaginable human cost.” :tsktsk:

In all fairness, setting aside our differences on the statistical weight between a population of 27million and a far smaller one of 1.8million, the real credit in the Ugandan success story belongs to the strong leadership of president Museveni. He made it his highest priority to convince his people to return to their traditional values of chastity and faithfulness to one partner. When all is said and done the teaching of the Catholic Church is based on natural law. One doesn’t have to be Catholic to understand it for it is “written on the human heart.”

JPII was a tireless advocate for human respect because he understood the inherent dignity of every child of God. “Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells within you?” 1Cor.3:16

 

[Nohome]

Rosalinda:

The original story, "Was Karol Wojtyla the Greatest Mass Murderer of the 20th c.

No, please, not that original, I mean the story that suggested a positive correlation between percentage of catholics and low infections rates of AIDS. I don’t agree with the notion that JPII is somehow respnsible for AIDS in Africa. Even if he wanted to ban condoms he was powerless to do so.

Rosalinda:

In all fairness, setting aside our differences on the statistical weight between a population of 27million and a far smaller one of 1.8million, the real credit in the Ugandan success story belongs to the strong leadership of president Museveni. He made it his highest priority to convince his people to return to their traditional values of chastity and faithfulness to one partner.

I can’t disagree, he has been a true leader. Our only difference is that I see a need for condoms.

Rosalinda:

When all is said and done the teaching of the Catholic Church is based on natural law.

We’ll have to start a different thread. I firmly believe that natural law is a myth.

Nohome

 

[Rosalinda]

Nohome in post 203:

Time will tell, the “C” in “ABC” is getting less play in Uganda and other places. It takes about five years for the virus to respond to policy changes.

Time has spoken; more than five years has passed. In 1986 President Museveni started his education campaign against AIDS. In 1991 the infection rate was 21%. Today it is about 6%. What do you mean the “C” is getting less play? Condoms were never targeted for the general Ugandan population; they only meant to play a minor role for the most recalcitrant cases of people who wouldn’t change their behaviour. In the ABC program marital fidelity played the most significant role; abstinence before marriage was second; a distant third was condoms for high risk groups. In direct contrast, countries with the highest availability of condoms continue to have the highest rates of HIV infection: Zimbabwe, South Africa, Kenya and Botswana. Throw your favorite example of Lesotho in there too with an HIV adult rate of 29%. Given the established correlation between condom availability and infection rates it would be a step backwards to heavily promote condoms to Ugandans once again. This nation has set a dramatic example for the world to follow; what a shame the West is too arrogant and too proud to believe “the impossible” happened. :crying:

 

[Nohome]

Rosalinda:

Given the established correlation between condom availability and infection rates it would be a step backwards to heavily promote condoms to Ugandans once again

Please, show me this correlation

 

[Rosalinda]

Nohome, I’m not sure I have understood your request. Nevertheless, let me make one example, South Africa which had an HIV infection prevalence rate of 1% in 1990, 25% in 2000 and 29.5% in 2004 according UNAIDS EPI report, Dec. 2005. Now lets listen to what the doctors of South Africa have to say about the effectiveness of condoms.

Doctors in South Africa are warning that condoms are an unreliable way to prevent sexually transmitted disease and most notably, HIV infection. The warning appears in the latest issue of the official journal of the South African Academy of Family Practice/Primary Care – South African Family Practice.

Authors, Professor Gboyega Ogunbanjo and Dr Donna Knapp van Bogaert said, “Many condom users just don’t know” that condoms have a high failure rate. “So the right message should be: it is better to use condoms than not, but to be aware that a condom does not provide full protection against pregnancy and/or sexually-transmitted infections.”

The authors referred to research published in 2003 in the South African Medical Journal, which revealed that condoms dangerously fail approximately 17 percent of the time.

lifesite.net/ldn/2004/oct/04102108.html

The crux of the argument: the high failure rate of condoms coupled with the mass propaganda campaigns giving users a false sense of security only increases the high risk behaviour which will expose them, their wives and their children to a deadly disease. “If parachutes had the abysmal safety record that condoms do, skydiving would have been outlawed long ago.” (Human Life International)

Hopefully, this clears your confusion; however, as we both seem to be wearing our own filtered glasses it is doubtful. Fundamentally, your solution to the AIDS crisis is a technical and mechanistic one while I’m inclined to believe the solution will be a spiritual one: namely, a conversion of the heart. I don’t doubt your sincerity to save lives; nevertheless, you are sincerely mistaken.

 

[Rosalinda]

This article by Steven Mosher in the Population Research Review of May-June, 2003 entitled, “The Uncontrolled AIDS Epidemic” is more comprehensive than the article cited in post #241. In it he examines the link between the Sexual Reproductive Health programs and the spread of AIDS in Africa. He poses the question why 58% of the women in sub-Saharan Africa are infected when the males are more promiscuous. Mosher makes the same correlation between the condom distribution program and the exponential increase in disease as I did.

Over the past 20 years, HIV/AIDS prevention programs have centered on the large-scale distribution of condoms. These have been combined with safe sex propaganda campaigns aimed at convincing the public that putting a layer of latex between sexual partners can guarantee protection against infection by the HIV/AIDS virus. Population Services International, a USAID-funded group, uses aggressive and ubiquitous advertising campaigns to flood the media with a pro-condom message. These safe sex campaigns involve, to use PSI’s own martial language, a constant barrage of radio spots and films shown on television, in cinema halls, and on [PSI’s] fleet of mobile film vans all extolling the perfect protection afforded by condom usage.

pop.org/main.cfm?id=213&r1=1.00&r2=3.00&r3=95.00&r4=3.00&level=4&eid=491

It should be mandatory to put warnings on all condoms,** USE AT YOUR OWN RISK**. Not responsible for slipping, breaking, leaking, faulty, overheated; improperly stored,shipped or handled; brittle, discolored or old condoms. We are not responsible for your clumsiness, haste and inconsistent use. After all this research, I wonder why there are no lawsuits already in the courts for false advertising and deliberately misleading the public to believe condoms =safe(r) sex.:bigyikes:

 

[Rosalinda]

Dr. Norman Hearst of the University of California - San Francisco revealed statistics on Kenya, Botswana, and other countries, which show an increasingly alarming pattern of increased condom sale correlation with rising HIV prevalence by year. Unfortunately, Hearst stated, we are “raising a generation of young people in Africa that believe that condoms will prevent HIV.” This is concerning because condoms are not 100% effective, even when used properly. According to Hearst, “the most recent Met-analysis came up with 80%, but even if it is 90%, over time it’s the question of when, not if.”

lifesite.net/ldn/2004/jan/04011408.html

 

[Rosalinda]

Dr. Margaret Ogola is the executive Director of the Family Life Counselling Association of Kenya, and medical director of the Cottolenga Hospice for HIV-positive orphans. At the 1999 at the World Congress of Families in Geneva Dr. Ogola stated that the distribution of millions of condoms, which she reported have a failure rate of “about 30 percent”, has not only failed to stem the spread of disease but has also broken down delicate tribal taboos against promiscuous sexual behavior. Ogola noted that Western propaganda efforts have convinced millions of young Africans that sex with condoms is “safe sex”-with devastating effects. In an interview she said, “The **disbelief **and **shock **in the reaction of young people when I tell them they have AIDS is heart-breaking. ‘But it was SAFE sex!’, they tell me.”

lifesite.net/ldn/2005/oct/05103106.html

highlights by Rosalinda

 

[Rosalinda]

A new study has indicated that over the past four years South Africa has seen a revolution in condom use. Dr Olive Shisana, principal investigator for the study said, “For example, for women aged 15-49, condom use at last sexual intercourse has more than tripled, from 8% in 1998 to 28.6% in the present study, and amongst women aged 20-24 it has increased from 14.4% to 47%.” However, despite the condom surge, AIDS infection has surged, leaving the country with an AIDS epidemic.

lifesite.net/ldn/2002/dec/02120604.html

 

[Rosalinda]

In 1930 the Lambeth Council of the Anglican Church, for the first time in the history of Christianity, allowed contraception in limited and exceptional circumstances. Today we see the ruinous consequences of that decision. In the same way, it has been proposed the Catholic Church should make exceptions. In 1930 Pope Pius XI wrote the encyclical "Casti Connubi" On Christian Marriage. What he said in very clear, strong language still speaks today as the authentic voice of wisdom:

No difficulty can arise that justifies the putting aside of the law of God which forbids all acts intrinsically evil. There is no possible circumstance in which husband and wife cannot, strengthened by the grace of God, fulfill faithfully their duties and preserve in wedlock their chastity unspotted. This truth of Christian Faith is expressed by the teaching of the Council of Trent. “Let no one be so rash as to assert that which the Fathers of the Council have placed under anathema, namely, that there are precepts of God impossible for the just to observe. God does not ask the impossible, but by His commands, instructs you to do what you are able, to pray for what you are not able that He may help you.”[48]

ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P11CASTI.HTM

 

[Listener]

I am trying to figure out what all of the fuss about is about. The Church doesn’t like condoms because they can be used for birth control by married (and unmarried) couples. However, if you are talking about two men doing an immoral act, condoms wouldn’t be birth control. There is no birth to control. The function of a condom in this case would be more like a band-aid. There is no moral teaching that forbids a person to use a band-aid to keep bacteria out of a wound.

The Church’s job is to teach MORALITY. Her job is to tell people not to commit immoral acts. The Church is not going to tell people what precautions to use when commiting an immoral act, because she doesn’t want anyone to commit an immoral act in the first place.

It is the job of the medical profession to tell people to use a band-aid so they won’t get bacteria in their wounds. It is the job of the Church to tell people not to commit immoral acts.

If a couple of gay men used a condom, wouldn’t the condom itself be morally neutral because there is no birth to control? Wouldn’t it only be the act itself that was immoral?

 

[Nohome]

Listener:

I am trying to figure out what all of the fuss about is about. The Church doesn’t like condoms because they can be used for birth control by married (and unmarried) couples. However, if you are talking about two men doing an immoral act, condoms wouldn’t be birth control. There is no birth to control. The function of a condom in this case would be more like a band-aid. There is no moral teaching that forbids a person to use a band-aid to keep bacteria out of a wound.

The Church’s job is to teach MORALITY. Her job is to tell people not to commit immoral acts. The Church is not going to tell people what precautions to use when commiting an immoral act, because she doesn’t want anyone to commit an immoral act in the first place.

It is the job of the medical profession to tell people to use a band-aid so they won’t get bacteria in their wounds. It is the job of the Church to tell people not to commit immoral acts.

If a couple of gay men used a condom, wouldn’t the condom itself be morally neutral because there is no birth to control? Wouldn’t it only be the act itself that was immoral?

This whole who ha goes back to an African Bishop saying it would be O.K. for MARRIED COUPLES using a condom when one of the partners is infected with AIDS. It has nothing to do with homosexuality. It is a very complex issue.

Nohome

 

[mlchance]

Nohome:

It is a very complex issue.

No, it isn’t. Using artificial contraception is wrong. Note the period.

Everything else that - all of the complexity - is just dissent and rationalization.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Rosalinda]

To Listener who is trying “to figure out what all the fuss is about.” As many people have chosen not to listen to the wisdom of the Church on sexual morality it is necessary to try to evaluate the effectiveness of condoms in order to challenge their assumptions that a thin piece of latex is going to defend them from contracting a highly infectious and deadly sexually transmitted disease. As this is a life/death issue for millions of people there is plenty “to fuss” about. Apart from the Uganda story, which has been the focus of this thread, the approach taken by the Philippines in direct opposition to that of Thailand is also a remarkable illustration:

There has been a wealth of misinformation and misleading interpretations of facts surrounding the spread of HIV/AIDS in Thailand and the Philippines. Anti-life forces, of course, continually push and spin facts while working toward their deadly agenda.** These organizations view condom distribution as the one great solution to curb the spread of HIV/AIDS even though time and experience has proven just the opposite**. Recently, BBC and UNFPA’s Director, Ms. Thoraya Ahmed Obaid, suggested that even calling into question the effectiveness of the condom, as Cardinal Lopez-Trujillo, president of the Pontifical Council for the Family recently did, would actually spread the disease. She boldly stated that “the statements of Cardinal Trujillo could contribute to the further spread of HIV/AIDS.”

Highlights by Rosalinda.

For the complete story follow this link:

hli.org/condom_facts_thailand_philippines_aids_rates.html

 

[Rosalinda]

This is the link to the article, “Family Values Versus Safe Sex” by Cardinal Trujillo who is the one accused in the aforementioned post of further spreading AIDS/HIV. It is a comprehensive review of the medical studies.

hli.org/condom_expose_family_values_vs_safe_sex.html

 

[Nohome]

mlchance:

Using artificial contraception is wrong.

Only according to your Pope and about 10% of Catholics.

Nohome