Why the clapping?

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A few posters have cited clapping in Mass, during the consecration, in Africa.

The original post was about clapping after Mass, in America.

There’s two discussions here:
  1. Is it appropriate to clap during the liturgy?
  2. Is it appropriate to clap after Mass?
My comments have mostly cited statements that it is inappropriate to clap during Mass. If you are at Mass in Uganda, and the people clap during the consecration, sure, clapping is worshipful. And even so, a range of Church hierarchy and lay scholars hold that ‘inculturization’ does not mean ‘Shape the liturgy to the people.’
  1. If you are in America, and clapping is most always done to show appreciation for musicians (and birthdays, and anniversaries, and altar servers) the clapping is not worshipful. It’s appreciative. But the point is we aren’t there to perform or show approval for those who sang or served.
  2. Regarding clapping after Mass: some parishes are incredibly reverent before, during, and after Mass. Sometimes families stay and pray longer, after Mass ends. Applause after Mass is not courteous in this situation. It’s distracting and unnecessary.
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Just out of curiosity, did this happen during Mass? Or some other event?
Yes, it was his installation Mass. He read his oath of office. Our parish staff, parish finance council members, and parish council members were presented to him, each in their own group. Naturally, we clapped for all of this. I was exceedingly happy for him and for our parish. It would be unnatural to sit silent in such an atmosphere of exuberance.
 
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Our new priest was just installed by our Bishop on 12/22, and the joy of our people was ecstatic. There was a lot of clapping, and some of it was even initiated by our Bishop! No way was it a good idea to keep it to oneself in silence. Our pastor was so overwhelmed by joy it was obvious he couldn’t control his tears.
I’m puzzled about why there was so much joy about getting a different priest. Was this new priest supposed to be a much better priest than your previous one? Was he some sort of celebrity? We all should be able to be joyful at Mass because God is there, not because there is some particular priest leading us.
 
In ‘The Spirit of the Liturgy’ Cardinal Ratzinger wrote

*Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.
What Cardinal Sarah has said is in line with Pope Benedict (and what he wrote as Card. Ratzinger) and in line with Sacrosanctum Concilium, and the previous teaching about liturgical norms.
I did read these, but I say again, that this is one person’s opinion that was written as a Cardinal. It cannot be taken as a universal norm because of his opinion, but must be weighed with the entire hierarchy. I see no contradiction in that regard.

You did not quote anything from SC, nor am I aware that occasional responses of clapping in special circumstances are in violation of that document.
 
Read the link to CatholicCulture, to an article Card. Sarah wrote about Sacrosanctum Concilium. He isn’t just one Cardinal with a rogue opinion. His words are in line with others in the hierarchy who want to adhere to what the Second Vatican Council actually taught and intended regarding the liturgy, versus how the reform was put in practice. His opinion is faithful to the Church.
 
I feel strongly about the issue. If trying to make my point by quoting two of the most outspoken men in the hierarchy is ‘pounding the table,’ that’s fine with me.

Ratzinger’s credentials, especially since he’s a pope and was also instrumental in the reform of the liturgy, and the ‘reform of the reform’ movement, are authoritative. Sarah, since he is Prefect for the Congregation of Divine Worship and Sacraments, also should be considered authoritative on this. He’s also written extensively on the subject.

Yes, there are many other bishops and cardinals. But that fact alone does not automatically discount what Ratzinger and Sarah wrote (again, what they wrote is in keeping and supportive of Sacrosanctum Concilium). Many of them don’t write or say anything on the subject of liturgy, or specifically what is reverent behavior in the liturgy.

What you could do is counter my arguments with quotes from other cardinals or popes who have written differently on the matter. But the fact that the two men I quoted are two of 215 doesn’t mean much by itself.

And please show me where I said that anyone who is not completely silent during Mass is not living the teachings of SC. If that’s what you got from my comments, sorry, it’s not what I intended. However, to say for the third time, silence should be the baseline (except when we’re called on to pray the responses out loud or sing, or when you really have to talk to your neighbor/correct your child/other necessary things). And that statement itself is in line with what Sacrosanctum Concilium calls for.

Edit: There’s more: From Good Pope John,

The fourth Sunday of Lent, John XXIII was once again among the crowd, at Ostia. (about 15 miles to the south-west of Rome.) Thousands of people were waiting for him along the street, in the piazza, in the church. They wanted to see him, to applaud him. They did not know that afterwards, he would rebuke them, in a good-natured way, in his simple , spontaneous, familiar way of speaking.
“I am very glad to have come here. But if I must express a wish, it is that in church you not shout out, that you not clap your hands, and that you not greet even the Pope, because ‘templum Dei, templum Dei.’ (‘The temple of God is the temple of God.’)
http://m.ncregister.com/blog/pat-archbold/wrap-the-clap-time-to-end-clapping-at-mass

And from Pope Pius X:

It is not fitting that the servant should be applauded in his Master’s house.”

Are these also ‘tired old quotes’ or will we respect the continuity of words from Popes (and saints!) on this?
 
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I feel strongly about the issue.
As I said,
“No matter how many rebuttals you may be given, I doubt you will listen, so it is time to move on.”

I don’t want to spend my Christmas debating this further. IMO, it not worth raising an issue over something as insignificant as this.
 
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The clapping wouldn’t last long anyway, as long as it’s after mass people who do want to pray can continue praying after.

Showing some appreciation isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
 
You are not the Priest. Your opinion doesn’t count where the Priest decides this is appropriate . It takes a huge team and a lot of work to get the place ready for Christmas, and to engage in the ministries associated with the Mass, especially at Christmas.
We don’t need to run into people to say thanks. Its nice that the entire congregation acknowledges the service of these people.

As far as music ministry goes, I sang yesterday with the Choir, for pre Mass carols. We practiced for weeks and sang these Carols around quite a few Catholic institutions. Then we had Mass and sang again. Today I am resting my voice as are the rest of the choir I imagine.
Our next extra ordinary singing is for New Years Day Mass. Its mid morning.
We don’t hang around for people to come up and thank us or tell us how wonderful or not the music was. We don’t do it for those kind of accolades.

Then there are those who cleaned the Church Space. They spent quite a few days preparing. Those who decorated, those who collected for Vinnies, those who just turn up and help.

Mass is about community as much as it is about the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist. WE are there as a community to worship God. We are there as the Body of the Church.
We must foster that Community.
How many threads do I read on here about how inhospitable the Catholic Church is compared to other denominations.

Community has its place. If the cleaners and the reading ministers and the people who prepare the Church, don’t do their part, I don’t get to come to Mass.
If I don’t do my part, nor the Choir , nor the pipe organists etc, we don’t get music.
 
You are not the Priest. Your opinion doesn’t count where the Priest decides this is appropriate .
That’s correct. But as we know, like the rest of humanity (us included), few priests are perfect.
It takes a huge team and a lot of work to get the place ready for Christmas, and to engage in the ministries associated with the Mass, especially at Christmas.
I totally agree. The example I mentioned recently above was an occurrence at Christmas Mass, but the “clapping for almost every occasion” that I’m against happens at almost every daily Mass as well.
We don’t need to run into people to say thanks. Its nice that the entire congregation acknowledges the service of these people.
It looks like you’re saying that having many many people show their approval via clapping during Mass is better than having fewer people directly say “thanks” after Mass.???

God’s approval is important. Not the congregation’s approval.

In general, if the parish wishes to thank people for their service, it could be done by the priest with a simple one-on-one phone call, or short personal letter from the parish secretary. Or an event outside of Mass.
We don’t hang around for people to come up and thank us or tell us how wonderful or not the music was. We don’t do it for those kind of accolades.
Again, it seems like you are saying that you prefer the accolades of lots of “during Mass clappers”, versus a personal heart-felt accolade from one or two people after Mass???

I’m not picking on the choir, incidentally.

Let me re-emphasize what I’ve been trying to say for the last couple days on this thread.

We should do service to God (parish, etc.) without expectations of rewards.
If we serve with love in our hearts, and a spirit of sacrifice, no accolades are necessary. Jesus saying “Well done, good and faithful servant” at our judgement is better than clappity-clap by mere people.

Unfortunately our society is very glory oriented. Our kid’s refrigerator art are the greatest artwork of all time. The worst soccer player on the last place kids soccer team deserves a trophy (and a lot of clapping). Self-esteem, you know. We’ve all been conditioned to want accolades from men.
 
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It seems okay to clap for a Pope .

What’s the problem ?

" Clap your hands, all you nations; shout to God with cries of joy." (Psalm 47:1)

 
Cdl. Sarah is a great spiritual leader. In his book, “Silence…” he addresses “noise” in the Mass. There is a tendency nowadays to treat the nave as a meeting hall, to act as if the moment the recessional is completed it is no longer a sacred space, and Jesus Christ is no longer present. It is the intrusion of the secular into the last bastion of the sacred. It is very sad.
 
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No that’s not what I am saying.

Think about what I am saying.

It has nothing to do with accolades or approval. You are placing your bias and prejudice on my words.

We are a community of believers.

Let me put emphasis on the word community. Read the Vatican documents about how the community of believers is the church. We are not solitary figures worshipping God.

Our Lady Of Lourdes said
“Let them come in procession.”

We don’t seek God’s approval . We seek God’s mercy, forgiveness and justice. And to live in God’s love.

Approval is not a quality a Catholic should be seeking. It belongs with ego.

Secular society seeks secular rewards. Btw what American culture does or seeks or how it conducts its children’s sport is a little different to Australian society.

However we are in the world but not of it.

Clapping after Mass for different things, when viewed in a secular way, is ego driven, ego oriented.

Clapping after Mass for different things in a Catholic Church Community is about Community.
 
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You’re ignoring the part where they specified that it should be about a community of believers, which I agree with.
 
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