Why the focus on abortion?

[Lea101]

I could no longer say that consent to sex extends to the natural and biological consequence of intercourse

What is the biological purpose of sex? I.e. Why do animals have sex? The inherent nature of this process?

Also, I am familiar with the violinist argument and it doesn’t compare to pregnancy. Pregnancy literally hides a foreign body within another human body. We wouldn’t expect the donor in the violinist story to provide life support if doing so would put the donor at the same risks as pregnancy. We’d say that it would be up to the donor to continue the life support.

Did you watch the video? She addressed your points. With all due respect, you’re saying a lot of words but there’s no substance. You’re just rephrasing the violinist argument here tbh.

To poorly summarise her points, she claims that parents have a natural responsibility to provide basic care to their children (to keep them alive). This is why you would be arrested for starving your child, but you wouldn’t be arrested for not giving food to the homeless. The latter would be a good deed, the former would be your responsibility. Your ‘right’ to spend your money as how you see fit wouldn’t apply here as it would if a random child was concerned.

Secondly, she addressed that the uterus’ purpose is for the fetus. Your reproductive system literally constantly prepares itself for a pregnancy. Hence, your biological fetus can claim a right to your uterus. The pro choice tendency to compare this to say, an organ from your mother

I don’t have a right to anything inside of your body now

does not apply. The purpose of your mother’s blood, kidney etc is not to keep you alive. Additionally, it’s not considered the basic level of care, but rather the organ is needed because of your health issues. The purpose of your mother’s uterus was to grow and sustain a human life that naturally needs it, and hence, that human life has a right to claim it.

 

[Annie]

I could no longer say that consent to sex extends to the natural and biological consequence of intercourse

The problem is that we cannot consent to only part of the consequences of an action.

I cannot drink and drive and say, well, I consented to getting tipsy, but not to getting a ticket.

The reason I get a ticket for driving drunk is that I could cause an accident. Can I say, well, I consented to driving impaired, but not to causing an accident? No.

In fact, driving while impaired is illegal precisely because it can lead to an accident. The DUI laws were strengthened because people whose loved ones had been killed in DUI accidents worked to strengthen the laws.

A miscarriage can be a very painful experience. The way to deal with that grief is not to minimize its importance but to go through it. Healing will come.

 

[goout]

Children are not the consequences of sex, they are the good fruit of it.

And it says a lot about our culture that children are seen as hindrances to human fulfillment.

However, going with the consequential line of thinking…
we as a people are so averse to “the good” that considering having children as the fruit of sex ought to serve as a stop for those ill disposed to the good.

If you are not ready to be responsible for something so good as a child, then wait til you are mature enough.

 

[Dougbro1]

Now there’s an epic comeback!

 

[IQ170]

Children are not the consequences of sex, they are the good fruit of it .

Don’t project your opinion unto others.

 

[goout]

goout:

Children are not the consequences of sex, they are the good fruit of it .

Don’t project your opinion unto others.

Can you elaborate on your opinion?
Are you claiming that children are bad? That would be distressing.
Are you are objecting to my use of the word “fruit”?

 

[IQ170]

Can you elaborate on your opinion?

I did not present an opinion. It was just a suggestion or an advice. The reason for this simple suggestion is also simple. You are not qualified to speak for others. Especially not for everyone else.

 

[YourNameHere]

I don’t think the left is obsessed with abortion. With them, it is more about a woman’s rights.

 

[Brendan_64]

That is simply incorrect. When a conception occurs, a new being STARTS to develop. That is all.

Human beings exist when their development starts, not when their development is complete. Human beings continue to develop through their infancy, childhood and early adulthood. Growing and developing is part of being a living human being. Is a newborn baby a humsn being, is a toddler a human being, is a teenager a human being? They are still developing.

To argue that a newly conceived human is not a human being, or is not really alive does not make sense. Scientifically, a newly conceived human is a living human, with it’s own distinct genetic identity.

 

[Brendan]

I absolutely believe that no human being has the right to be inside of another human being without consent. Full stop. Period.

The next question then, is Capital Punishment then justified? Especially since the offender is an innocent child. Are they entitled to the same normal court hearings and appeals that society would to, say, a murderer?

 

[goout]

goout:

Can you elaborate on your opinion?

I did not present an opinion. It was just a suggestion or an advice. The reason for this simple suggestion is also simple. You are not qualified to speak for others. Especially not for everyone else.

Then why are you responding, if we are not qualified to speak for others?
I am confused.

Oh, are you saying your are qualified but not others?

 

[goout]

goout:

Children are not the consequences of sex, they are the good fruit of it .

Don’t project your opinion unto others.

So getting back to the point, please elaborate specifically if you can. (you can use your opinion, I am perfectly cool with that).

 

[IQ170]

Then why are you responding, if we are not qualified to speak for others?
I am confused.

I merely made a suggestion, nothing else. I did not speak for anyone.

So getting back to the point, please elaborate specifically if you can.

Elaborate on what? On my unstated opinion?

Well, here is my opinion. Sometimes, under some circumstances a pregnancy is happily welcomed, and joyful occurrence (you called it good fruit). In other times it is not welcomed. The reason for this unwelcome event varies from instance to instance. No one is qualified to speak for the people involved. They have their own reasons.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

You are not qualified to speak for others

This is an opinion ironically enough.

It was just a suggestion or an advice.

It sounded like a command so the wording is at fault.

 

[goout]

goout:

Then why are you responding, if we are not qualified to speak for others?
I am confused.

I merely made a suggestion, nothing else. I did not speak for anyone.

So getting back to the point, please elaborate specifically if you can.

Elaborate on what? On my unstated opinion?

Well, here is my opinion. Sometimes, under some circumstances a pregnancy is happily welcomed, and joyful occurrence (you called it good fruit). In other times it is not welcomed. The reason for this unwelcome event varies from instance to instance. No one is qualified to speak for the people involved. They have their own reasons.

Let me correct you:

I didn’t call pregnancy good fruit, I called children good fruit.
If you are going to criticize, please at least criticize what was said.

Are you able to do that?

 

[SaintJude]

The right to life is the fundamental human right which presupposes all others. Add into the mix these are the weakest and most vulnerable and that is why we are so vocal about it. If only our catholic politicians were…especially in Uk!

 

[SaintJude]

Which they somehow conflate with stopping the heartbeat of an innocent human life

 

[IQ170]

I didn’t call pregnancy good fruit, I called children good fruit.

Since you equate a child with pregnancy, your distinction is irrelevant. The phrase “good fruit” implies that there is someone who values that “fruit”… maybe for its nutritional value? Instead of these poetic phrases, let’s stick to the facts. Sometimes children are considered blessings, other times not. It is the prerogative of the woman (or the couple) to decide how they view it.

 

[goout]

goout:

I didn’t call pregnancy good fruit, I called children good fruit.

Since you equate a child with pregnancy, your distinction is irrelevant. The phrase “good fruit” implies that there is someone who values that “fruit”… maybe for its nutritional value? Instead of these poetic phrases, let’s stick to the facts. Sometimes children are considered blessings, other times not. It is the prerogative of the woman (or the couple) to decide how they view it.

Well thanks for your opinion.
Do you see the merry go round you’re riding?

You subject human beings to your opinion as to their value. And then accuse of others of being forceful with opinions.
What do you call that?

 

[IQ170]

Well thanks for your opinion.

It is not just an opinion that some people consider children a blessing, and other people do not. It is a fact.

You subject human beings to your opinion as to their value.

No, I don’t. I am not qualified to decide or declare what is valuable for you (or anyone else), and what is not. As such I make no declaration about your value system. Of course this cuts both ways. Value is a subjective opinion.