Why the hostility toward Mary?

[thirdworld]

It is my opinion that some of the opposition to Mary’s position in the Catholic Church has it’s roots in misogyny.

 

[JHow]

I’m not saying there is no one that has contempt for Mary. I’m saying this is not mainstream as some seem to think. I am also saying there is much misunderstand online whether it be emails, IM’s or forums.

I grew up Catholic and never experienced all these people you guys say are out there. You sound like it is 90% of Protestants and I just don’t see how that can be accurate when the only time in 50 years I experienced any even remotely resembling what you all describe was the one little girl. And it was not something she was taught it appeared to be a misconception of a young child.

And I recall a playground conversation with a Catholic (I was not one then) wherein I told him that I went to a “Christian Church” (which was the name of it, “First Christian Church”), and he told me “We ain’t Christian, we’re Catholic!”

What lesson can you draw from this, other than children are less-than well-informed? Not much, I think.

 

[PRmerger]

I happen to hold the position that, by the grace of God and not by her own doing, she may have been sinless. this makes her still a part of a sinful people, and in need of the Savior.

Well, then, Jon, that’s very Catholic of you to say that!

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I grew up Catholic and never experienced all these people you guys say are out there. You sound like it is 90% of Protestants and I just don’t see how that can be accurate when the only time in 50 years I experienced any even remotely resembling what you all describe was the one little girl. And it was not something she was taught it appeared to be a misconception of a young child.

You have only experienced anti-Catholism once? Well you are not mainstream them. I’ve heard a lot of it the 22+ years I was a Protestant. Including Catholics being listed as a cult in a bible class I was taking at a Baptist college.

And of course I got quite a bit of it now that I’m returning back to the Catholic church…from some of my Protestant “friends” . Not all but definetly about 50%. So…your experience…my experience…we are at a stand off here…

 

[PRmerger]

Eye tink dat U need tu werk on yr speling, syntax an grammer and then come bak. U ar nt texting.
I know that your usage is common among today’s generation, but it jars the eyes of us older folk.

<spitting milk out of my mouth!>

That, hosemonkey, was one funny post.

 

[Reuben_J]

I’m not saying there is no one that has contempt for Mary. I’m saying this is not mainstream as some seem to think. I am also saying there is much misunderstand online whether it be emails, IM’s or forums.

I grew up Catholic and never experienced all these people you guys say are out there. You sound like it is 90% of Protestants and I just don’t see how that can be accurate when the only time in 50 years I experienced any even remotely resembling what you all describe was the one little girl. And it was not something she was taught it appeared to be a misconception of a young child.

My goodness, how is that I sound it’s as if 90% of Protestants? I only said there are some who have contempt for Mary and these I experienced first-hand – a statement meant to negate your saying you have not met any Christian who does, implying that no Christians have contempt for Mary.

You have moved from saying that I have preconcieved idea to now saying I meant 90% Protestants in the category of being hostile towards Mary, a fact I definitely did not. Come to think of it, don’t you think you already harboured an idea of your own about all this?

There are Christians that I met who practically do not want to have anything to do with her. I don’t think she deserves this. If we can love the apostles, why can’t the same is extended to Mary? I am not saying that she must be accorded the same veneration that Catholics have for her but at least not downright hostility.

 

[PRmerger]

I don’t believe I DID lump everybody together. That’s why I purposely used words llike “most” (not all).

**I am speaking from personal **experience - not from a complete knowledege of every non-Catholic or ex-Catholic. I’m not questioning their motives - I’m questioning their knowledge.

In the 6 years that I have been on this forum I have spoken to literally thousands of Protestants and not ONE of them really understood Catholic Doctrines.

Indeed. This is my #1 pet-peeve here on the CAFs: ex-Catholics (usually accompanied by these qualifiers: “altar server”, "12 years of Catholic schooling with nuns!’) who are adamantine that some whacky belief they’re professing was taught by the CC. And the fact that they’re an ex-Catholic means that, by golly, they’re speaking with authority.

Yet if you ask them a simple question like
-what’s the Immaculate Conception?
or
-where’s Scripture in the Mass?

they fail miserably in their explanation.

 

[dianaiad]

The other day I was chatting with another mom from my son’s preschool. The topic of church came up, as she was telling me that her church (an independent church) was sponsoring the Community Day that weekend. When I mentioned that I’m Catholic, she kind of sneered. She said that she"had a lot of friends that were Catholic growing up and went along to (CCD?) with them. They were doing the “Mary Thing”. When I asked her what she meant, she said “the sacrements”. I couldn’t help but notice the vemom with which she said “Mary”. I’ve only been Catholic for a few months, but this isn’t the first time I have experienced a hostility toward Mary from some non-Catholics. I was raised Methodist and we basically thought about Mary at Christmas. But never anything negative.

I’d like to hear from Catholics and non-Catholics. Is this something that is common? I don’t understand having contempt for Jesus’s mother, even if your particular faith tradition does not venerate her as Catholics do.

On a related note, why does the word “Roman” in Roman Catholic sometimes sound like a slur when used by non-Catholic Christians? I’m not trying to lump all non-Catholics together, I’m just trying to understand the negativity in some and how I can educate (if they are open) to what Catholics really believe as opposed to what they have been told we believe. I’m sorry this is so long. I really need some insight here.

Thank you,
Sharen

In my experience, it’s not about Mary…it’s about the percieved misplaced worship of Mary. Non-Catholics often see the veneration of Mary and interpret it as idol worship, frankly. It takes awhile to ‘get’ the difference between the worship owed to God, and the veneration owed to Mary–and in a lesser way, Saints. They see prayers addressed to Mary and see them in the same light as their prayers to God. They don’t see it as a third party interaction, as asking her to pray to God in your behalf.

 

[hosemonkey]

<spitting milk out of my mouth

!>

That, hosemonkey, was one funny post.

I’m very glad that you enjoyed it. BTW, my eldest daughter is a MSN L & D nurse. Cheers.

 

[Roy5]

My experience is that Protestants are not hostile to Mary. They do, in general, object to what they see as Catholic worship of Mary.

True, Catholics don’t worship Mary, but to refer to her, for example, as “Queen of the Universe” or “Queen of Heaven” can sound a lot like worship to others. When they hear the Rosary prayed and most of the prayers are directed to Mary, that gives the same impression. And special dogmas related to Mary - the Immaculate Conception, the sinless life of Mary, her perpetual virginity, her Assumption, etc. - all these add to the idea that Mary is a lot like a goddess as in pagan religions.

Awhile back, in a conversation, someone asked: If Mary is to be venerated in such fashion, why is it that St. Paul, in all of his letters, letters which discussed many theological matters, never mentions Mary even once? What is a good answer to that query?

 But, again, I have never heard Protestants express hostility toward Mary. They do not agree with the emphatic Marian emphasis among many Catholics. They see it as the result of pagan influence that crept into the church around 300-400 AD.

 

[PRmerger]

I’m very glad that you enjoyed it. BTW, my eldest daughter is a MSN L & D nurse. Cheers.

Cheers to you, too!

Nurses run the L&D rooms; indeed, they run the hospitals!

As I like to say to my family: if Mommy’s not happy, nobody’s happy.

and the corollary to that is:

if the nurses aren’t happy, nobody’s happy!

 

[po18guy]

Amen! I have a similar situation. I am the only one left in my family who is Catholic.
Let me say this to those who disrespect and denigrate my Blessed Mother, she IS the Holy Mother of God in every sense except conception. She gave birth to Him, she suckled Him, she changed his diapers, she agonized over his illnesses, she comforted Him when He skinned His knee, she spanked Him when He got into mischief(He WAS True God and True Man) she counseled Him when He was a teenager(He remained obedient to them in all things) She asked His first miracle and she held Him in her arms when He was dead. If that is NOT a mother, I do not know what is. If you want to get on the fightin’ side of me, just talk bad about my Blessed Mother, Mother of God and Queen of Heaven.

Amen! Example: During exorcisms, demons will insult the Priest, our Lord, in fact everyone present. But never Mary. Not one peep about her. NEVER. So, what’s an average demon to do? Just dupe some ignorant, naive, or cooperative humans to do their work for them. For those who do not yet believe this, have a short read:

regnumchristi.org/english/articulos/articulo.phtml?id=14318&se=364&ca=118&te=782

 

[po18guy]

ppl dislike mary because its a female in a other wise male dependent religon

Uh, which “religion”???

 

[po18guy]

I’ve never run into anyone who was hostile to Mary. Hostile to the Catholic Church’s Marian Doctrines, sure, because in most Protestant views, at least some of them are heretical (I’m not saying they are or aren’t, I’m just reporting). But not to Mary herself. I’m sure all would agree she deserves the greatest admiration and respect.

By definition, “heresy” is a teaching that does not agree with Catholic teaching. So, no Catholic doctrine can ever be heresy for two reasons: The Catholic Church is the definer of all things Christian. 2. She is lead by the Holy Spirit.

Sounds simple, I know. Occam’s razor.

 

[dianaiad]

By definition, “heresy” is a teaching that does not agree with Catholic teaching. So, no Catholic doctrine can ever be heresy for two reasons: The Catholic Church is the definer of all things Christian

Oh, now THAT is begging the question BIG time…cat amongst the pidgeons, lit match in the fireworks factory, declaring that the Catholic church is the definer of all things Christian in the non-Catholic religions forum begging–kinda like a Democrat wandering into a Tea Party and declaring that everybody there has to vote for Harry Reid, question begging.

. 2. She is lead by the Holy Spirit.

Sounds simple, I know. Occam’s razor.

As to whether Mary is/was lead by the Holy Spirit, I don’t know many, if any, Christians who would disagree with that one. However, as to your first claims regarding the definitions of heresy and Christianity, I think your version of Occam’s razor needs sharpening.

 

[PAboy57]

Fulton J. Sheen (1895-1979) “Not one hundred in the United States hate the Roman Catholic Church, but millions hate what they mistakenly think that the Roman Catholic Church is.”

My personal opinion is that many dislike/question/don’t understand all the assumed rules, 7 Sacraments, beautiful priest vestments, the Blessed Sacrament, receiving communion daily, confession, infallibility (don’t understand the concept), Mass everyday, devotion to Mary and the Saints, I think you get the idea. They feel we do too much as I felt that at one time when I didn’t understand my own faith.

I heartily offer explanations to those willing to listen. I don’t to those who don’t want to listen or argue or express venom. I am devoted to our Blessed Mother and it amazes me that others don’t get the connection to the Holy Trinity. The King’s mother was 99.9% of the time treated with the greatest respect but not here. And there is so much grace to be received along with her leading you to Jesus. Again it comes down to understanding.

Hang in there and speak to those wanting to listen. God Bless you for wanting to understand your faith. Take care.

 

[Nicea325]

I don’t think people hate her, as in, her the historical Virgin Mary. I think many people simply dislike the status or power some Roman Catholics (and even Eastern Orthodox) give her. Some people just overreact to it and therefore their responses come across as extreme.

Understandable. Do you feel the same about the First Lady of the U.S.?

 

[Nicea325]

In my experience, it’s not about Mary…it’s about the percieved misplaced worship of Mary. Non-Catholics often see the veneration of Mary and interpret it as idol worship, frankly. It takes awhile to ‘get’ the difference between the worship owed to God, and the veneration owed to Mary–and in a lesser way, Saints. They see prayers addressed to Mary and see them in the same light as their prayers to God. They don’t see it as a third party interaction, as asking her to pray to God in your behalf.

An idol can be more than a person. An idol can include an array of things: money,fame,lust,etc. If it becomes the focal point of one’s life,then it is idol worship.

 

[hosemonkey]

Understandable. Do you feel the same about the First Lady of the U.S.?

The “First Lady” has no lawful position. She is just some lucky politician’s wife. We may respect her as a person, but she has no special brief, aside from what she is given by a mostly fawning media. Apples and oranges, “first lady”- Mother of God…no comparison.

 

[Jesness]

To the OP

I’ve seen a lot of protestant and other non-catholics with a certain disdain for Catholic practices concerning Mary, but never for the actual person. That almost seems blasphemous, or if not blasphemous slightly slanderous maybe? Something tells me this person was the victim of an overzealous Marian devotee.