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Why the Lack of Support & Exodus from the Church
- Thread starter NoelFitz
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GrandPaRay
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Hi Noel Fitz, Thank you and youāre the first person I have been able to discuss with about catholic people. I liked my life as a catholic also. First an alter boy through 8th grade, got most of what is called sacraments that are available to men. Married a Misouri Synod Lutheran and got her to agree to raise our children catholic. Became very involved in church, Holy Name President of our parish church, Knight of Columbus and got on an initiation team. Had just moved Milwaukee when the race riots started and Fr. James Groppi was leading a march and I remembering the oath to god I had agreed to come to the aid of a priest in jepority. Not knowing any one to well yet, I called the Marquette KofC they told me that they were trying to get Bishop
To do something about him. That flipped me out for a moment so off to the Bishops office I flew, some Monsior tried to calm me down and would not let me in to see the bishop. That was the start of the crack. We got involved in the Christian Family movement very heavily. Then came the Cursillo and that really fired me up for the church. John 23rd
Kept me going changes to liturgy that really made sense to me.
Then my wife dropped dead on me and the church was no help at all. I started to ask questions and was a complete strike out. So I started reading to find out answers to my questions. The only answers i could find came from other people who questioned, and WOW.!!! If you are interested I could forward some of the books and digging I have done. I will keep you in my thoughts and wish you well.
Do you think it is possible to form a group of Lay catholic people who want the good to stay and the bull to go?
To do something about him. That flipped me out for a moment so off to the Bishops office I flew, some Monsior tried to calm me down and would not let me in to see the bishop. That was the start of the crack. We got involved in the Christian Family movement very heavily. Then came the Cursillo and that really fired me up for the church. John 23rd
Kept me going changes to liturgy that really made sense to me.
Then my wife dropped dead on me and the church was no help at all. I started to ask questions and was a complete strike out. So I started reading to find out answers to my questions. The only answers i could find came from other people who questioned, and WOW.!!! If you are interested I could forward some of the books and digging I have done. I will keep you in my thoughts and wish you well.
Do you think it is possible to form a group of Lay catholic people who want the good to stay and the bull to go?
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GrandPaRay
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Anything that goes in a circle I do not want any part of.
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GrandPaRay
Guest
Fritz, In my life time most good things have come about because of advances in human knowledge about reality. We know that washing oneās hands prevents bad things from happening to us. The earth is not flat we will not fall off. Magic is not reality. Science and itās method is the only way to get to truth about real life. Why do we need magic?
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GPR,
thanks so much for your reply.
The Church is huge, and is a holy church made up of unholy people. I am sorry to hear about your wife. There are very few dogmas Catholics must believe in, we really are free to hold different views.
I wonder have we advanced. The genocides of the 20th century makes other centuries seem peaceful. Nowadays buildings last about 40 years. Where are all your video disks and music tapes? Are they with your floppy disks? Yet cuneiform writing remains, as do the pyramids. The three angle of a triangle are still 180 degrees. Thousands of years ago the Jews understood the importance of hygiene.
thanks so much for your reply.
The Church is huge, and is a holy church made up of unholy people. I am sorry to hear about your wife. There are very few dogmas Catholics must believe in, we really are free to hold different views.
I wonder have we advanced. The genocides of the 20th century makes other centuries seem peaceful. Nowadays buildings last about 40 years. Where are all your video disks and music tapes? Are they with your floppy disks? Yet cuneiform writing remains, as do the pyramids. The three angle of a triangle are still 180 degrees. Thousands of years ago the Jews understood the importance of hygiene.
You make a valid point, claiming (I believe) that people leave the Church due to the pedophile scandals.Zero tollerance for monsters.
I do not agree, the rot started prior to the pedophile concerns.
āZero tolerance (sic.) for monstersā sounds great. Does this mean lynch mobs killing accused pedophiles?
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Benadam
Guest
Maybe when the Church sought relevance and instituted change to accomplish that goal, it turned itāself into something that looks the same as everything else. Maybe the Church needs to be distinguishable from everything else in order to be relevant.
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Benadam
Guest
Noel, what is the rot ? If you donāt mind me asking?You make a valid point, claiming (I believe) that people leave the Church due to the pedophile scandals.
I do not agree, the rot started prior to the pedophile concerns.
āZero tolerance (sic.) for monstersā sounds great. Does this mean lynch mobs killing accused pedophiles?
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Benadam
Guest
I understand now. I agree the exodus began before the sex scandal. Thanks Noel.
GPR,
thank you so much for your brilliant contributions. They get to the heart of the matter, with insight and experience.
I have been thinking constantly about your posts, as I feel I am not too different from you in several ways. But I am trying to hang on in the Church.
I am reminded of St Polycarp āFor 86 years I have been Christās servant, and he has done me no wrong. How can I blaspheme my King who saved me?ā
Some of the most important and fundamental ideas in modern science have been by Catholic priests.
Th whole subject of genetics, which is of huge theoretical and practical use, is due to Fr Gregor Mendel OSA and modern cosmology, with its big bang theory, is due to Monsignor Georges Lemaitre.
Thanks and God bless.
[But I am disappointed that so many posts here ignore the focus on āWhy the Lack of Support and Exodus from the Churchā.
It seems more and more clear that US Catholics see themselves essentially as members of an anti-choice lobby group, rather than the People of God or part of the Mystical Body of Christ.]
thank you so much for your brilliant contributions. They get to the heart of the matter, with insight and experience.
I have been thinking constantly about your posts, as I feel I am not too different from you in several ways. But I am trying to hang on in the Church.
I am reminded of St Polycarp āFor 86 years I have been Christās servant, and he has done me no wrong. How can I blaspheme my King who saved me?ā
Some of the most important and fundamental ideas in modern science have been by Catholic priests.
Th whole subject of genetics, which is of huge theoretical and practical use, is due to Fr Gregor Mendel OSA and modern cosmology, with its big bang theory, is due to Monsignor Georges Lemaitre.
Thanks and God bless.
[But I am disappointed that so many posts here ignore the focus on āWhy the Lack of Support and Exodus from the Churchā.
It seems more and more clear that US Catholics see themselves essentially as members of an anti-choice lobby group, rather than the People of God or part of the Mystical Body of Christ.]
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Elf01
Guest
That speaks volumes to me. Your country will be having a referendum on that issue soon. Iām not going to ask you how you plan to vote, but I would ask you to consider it very carefully.anti-choice
You are right that being Catholic is about more than being against abortion but no other rights exist without the right to life. If I cannot trust someone to uphold the most fundamental right of all how can I trust them with anything else?
If someone wants Catholic votes they have to vote in alignment with Catholic teaching, even more so if they claim to be Catholic in my opinion.
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littlebird
Guest
āWhy do so many Catholics forsake the one true faith?ā
Are there other denominations that forsake their faith ?
Are there other denominations that forsake their faith ?
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GrandPaRay
Guest
Benadam, I could not agree more and it needs to change very fast. We have a ton of highly educated clergy who are restricted with a dogma. we need to get up to date with science or get blown away like dead leaves.
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GrandPaRay
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Benadam, Spiritual, magic, two words that can be used to define a state the brain is in.
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JanSobieskiIII
Guest
The church has existed for 2000 years. It exists inside the world, yet apart from it. It does not need to āget up to dateā
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GrandPaRay
Guest
Noel Fitz.
why youth are leaving the church? The most obvious reason is the double standard. One for clergy and one for laity. People with the current level on education do not accept being told they have to believe in a mystery. even the Pope changed the Vatican Astro-phyasist {spelling) FR.George Coyne, that could be an accident. I think it is called the magisterium that identifies the problem. All people are equal except in the catholic church. Young people can spot this difference really fast but still have respect for their elders, but that is eroding also. If the clergy acts fast they could head this off or at least look into it. It is a shame with all of the great priests of the past are under control of the authority. Just like what is happening in our politics.
why youth are leaving the church? The most obvious reason is the double standard. One for clergy and one for laity. People with the current level on education do not accept being told they have to believe in a mystery. even the Pope changed the Vatican Astro-phyasist {spelling) FR.George Coyne, that could be an accident. I think it is called the magisterium that identifies the problem. All people are equal except in the catholic church. Young people can spot this difference really fast but still have respect for their elders, but that is eroding also. If the clergy acts fast they could head this off or at least look into it. It is a shame with all of the great priests of the past are under control of the authority. Just like what is happening in our politics.
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JanSobieskiIII
Guest
What do you mean by this?The most obvious reason is the double standard. One for clergy and one for laity. People with the current level on education do not accept being told they have to believe in a mystery.
Iām 26 and going through RCIA now, Iām not exactly āyouthā but Iām not exactly old either. I expect the church to hold true to itās traditions and structure. The timelessness of itās institutions is part of the appeal of the Catholic Church to me. If I wanted a modernist church Iād go to one of the various protestant churches that embrace the modern world and change their beliefs to fit in.
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Nigel7
Guest
Donāt be silly. Holding them accountable for their actions would be a good place to start.āZero tolerance (sic.) for monstersā sounds great. Does this mean lynch mobs killing accused pedophiles?
Donāt be silly.You make a valid point, claiming (I believe) that people leave the Church due to the pedophile scandals.
I do not agreeā¦
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Nigel7,āZero tolerance (sic.) for monstersā sounds great. Does this mean lynch mobs killing accused pedophiles?
Donāt be silly. Holding them accountable for their actions would be a good place to start.
I do not understand you.
Even though your views may be off-topic I would like you to expand.
I think you imply monsters should be given a fair trial and then hanged.
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