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mgy100
Guest
On top of allowing the Tridentine mass without special permission, I would also like to see the Church fix certain things in the current mass as well.
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jlw
Guest
Sounds like my parish!! There are plenty of parishioners in both “camps”, families who prefer one Mass over the other, but the amazing thing is, once they instituted the one weekly Latin Mass, church attendance for ALL the Masses rose, and tything receipts as well!!
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TNT
Guest
Actually, the NOM is a 1969 model. TIME TO MOVE ON.i believe it is because the novus ordo mass is the new mass, therefore it seems obvious to go with the new and change(a word i’ve said many times but hasn’t seemed to have sunken in yet). If you have a computer from 1979, wouldn’t you get a newer model from today(2005) instead of staying with that(1979 model) Why would you prefer a mass with alot of errors(like my example the 1979 model) as opposed to something new? What i don’t get is why people have a problem with change. I would advise you not to go to one and stay with the newer and better form of mass.
Podo
BTW:
Can I apply that same logic to my Mother. How about my Wife? How about the bible? Especially that OT!. What “model” was that?
How about kneeling in adoration? How about the “Hail Holy Queen…” at the end of the Rosary? How about that Rosary?
How about the Prayer to St Michael? How about tabernacles? How about Christmas? How about Thanksgiving feast? How about those 0 AD Nativity scenes? How about your birthday? How about Tradition? How about tradition, period?..time to move on!
So many things to replace, so little time.
One day, you’ll find out that tradition is the glue that holds the Faith secure.
For good reason the signature says:
To destroy a Religion, you must first sever its traditions
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Defensor_Fidei
Guest
Why did the Pope give us a new Mass in 1969? Because he can!
If you want the indult then you need to go a licit indult.
-Ted
The SSPX never was an order of priests. They were never regularized by the local ordinary or the Pope as an order of Priests. Today they are still not a valid order. They are all excommunicated and the ordination of the four bishops sealed the deal.
If you want the indult then you need to go a licit indult.
-Ted
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kleary
Guest
If Camden County New Jersey is not “too far” for you then you can visit Mater Ecclesiae Roman Catholic Church. (materecclesiae.org)
At Mater Ecclesiae they have the Tridentine Mass offered exculusively every day. Every Sunday there is “High Mass” with gregorian chant, incense, etc.
The chapel is also staffed by the Diocese of Camden, not the FSSP.
Mostly I believe the lack of the TLM, from my experience is the unwillingness of many priests to say it. Also for the High Mass, cantors are needed to sing the Mass propers in Gregorian Chant, many other men are also needed plus servers who KNOW what they are doing.
In the past I trained altar servers at one parish to serve the TLM on one occasion the Diocese allowed the pastor of Mater Ecclesiae to say it there- and after all of it the parish never bothered to take the seed that was planted. Too much work converting the Novus Ordo Sanctuary to the traditional plus they would have to hire their own musicians who know Gregorian Chant every Sunday, etc.
Ken
At Mater Ecclesiae they have the Tridentine Mass offered exculusively every day. Every Sunday there is “High Mass” with gregorian chant, incense, etc.
The chapel is also staffed by the Diocese of Camden, not the FSSP.
Mostly I believe the lack of the TLM, from my experience is the unwillingness of many priests to say it. Also for the High Mass, cantors are needed to sing the Mass propers in Gregorian Chant, many other men are also needed plus servers who KNOW what they are doing.
In the past I trained altar servers at one parish to serve the TLM on one occasion the Diocese allowed the pastor of Mater Ecclesiae to say it there- and after all of it the parish never bothered to take the seed that was planted. Too much work converting the Novus Ordo Sanctuary to the traditional plus they would have to hire their own musicians who know Gregorian Chant every Sunday, etc.
Ken
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A_Chaoidh
Guest
I am blessed with a Traditional Latin Rite Parish where only Tridentine Mass is celebrated. Our parish, francisdesales.com/, is one of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter, fssp.org/ for which I am overwhelmed and overjoyed!
Another resource that may provide assistance is Una Voce:unavoce.org/
There are many online resources that may assist your efforts (e.g., petitions for indults to your Bishop, etc.) in observing the Latin Rite.
Do you ever visit the metro Atlanta area? If so any and all are welcome…only be sure to arrive early for Penance and to ensure you have a seat (standing room only is not uncommon! Thanks be to God!)
If you ever have a chance or have never experienced High Mass in the Tridentine Rite I beseech you to avail yourself of the opportunity…to experience the Mass in the manner of the vast majority of the Saints!
Another resource that may provide assistance is Una Voce:unavoce.org/
There are many online resources that may assist your efforts (e.g., petitions for indults to your Bishop, etc.) in observing the Latin Rite.
Do you ever visit the metro Atlanta area? If so any and all are welcome…only be sure to arrive early for Penance and to ensure you have a seat (standing room only is not uncommon! Thanks be to God!)
If you ever have a chance or have never experienced High Mass in the Tridentine Rite I beseech you to avail yourself of the opportunity…to experience the Mass in the manner of the vast majority of the Saints!
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Podo2004
Guest
I don’t care what your signature says, i vow to differ or change( even if it means to change tradition) You can’t apply the same logic to your wife or the bible because they are COMPLETELY different things. You vowed to stay with your wife until death, but in the catholic church we didn’t vow to stay with the old ways didn’t we? You can change tradition, it has already been changed, that is why we have the New mass because we moved on and changed. BTW the OT is changed with the NT!!! We look at the OT too but also at the NT. And i don’t get why we have to kneel in adoration, we spend so much time doing that that we don’t help each other, we don’t actually SERVE God. It’s time to move on people from a church that never really existed( as you know i hope, the definition of church is a community of people) People never helped each other because Jesus was there and we had to kneel in adoration not participate(in mass) and Jesus was up there and we were nothing. Jesus never walked around with his hands together all the time, he had fun like us and he helped others. My parish calls me to be community minded and missionary spirited and that doesn’t mean staying with a stiff neck about old ways, it means change… The pope back then was courageous when he called the 2nd vatican council… Let us be in the spirit of Vatican II!!!
Podo
(I hope it’s sunk in, my hands are killing me)
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aspawloski4th
Guest
podo you just dont get it! the new Mass of the last 3 1/2 decades was solely designed to to keep people from leaving the church, in other words fit into the world better. that wrong! by changing the Mass a “pandora’s box” has been opened, much of the younger generation actually expects Mass to be entertaining, how so sad. Mass has become a free for all. my section of grand rapids michigan is perfect proof of that. on my side of town the west side there are 7 parishes , and on sunday morning you have 7 different Masses. different eucharistic prayers, different pentitential rites, different responsorial psalms, is just the tip of the ice berg. Ill bet the different christian reformed services near me vary less than catholic Mass being heald. how so sad. that didnt happen in the days of the tridentine rite Mass. there just a high Mass and a low Mass, no adding this and subtracting that. in this day and age because of VaticanII people actually think they are going to Mass to “get something out of it” like being entertained, or socializing, etd. that is so very wrong. the reason you go to Mass is to worship God and that it! anything else is extra and not the reason you go to Mass. Mr podo you talk about rules needing to be changed sometimes. normally next sunday would have this gospel reading , but the easter season starting it will have to wait till annother year to be read. read Mathew 5/17-23 and tell me jesus intened to flip everything upside down. I think not. in the mean time I go to Mass n.o. Mass because I have no real choice and I try my best to focus on God.
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TNT
Guest
A prot vow.
Here is our hero’s quote regarding the Traditional Mass:
Martin Luther:***
“Tolle missam, tolle ecclesiam”*** [Destroy the Mass, and you destroy the Church].
Here’s the papal oath, in part…1,300 years in effect:
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aspawloski4th
Guest
Amen tnt!
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TNT
Guest
Podo2004 said:
Well, in that case the 2nd signature applies:
Liberalism : A mental disorder wherein the Illogical becomes completely logical with no lasting effect on the conscience.
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EddieArent
Guest
I went to an SSPX Mass this past weekend, and to tell you the truth, I have never seen such reverance in my diocese. Everyone dressed as if they were going to church, women (even girls) covered their heads, the priest gave a great homily (he didn’t bash anyone, just meat and potatoe Catholicism), there was “sacred silence” observed, etc. Something out of this world. If the spirit of Vatican II is that a priest can joke about looking like Pee-Wee Herman and asking folks at a church Mass if they don’t believe in God to raise their hands (Tabernacle present), and then have the nerve to ask folks to come to his retreats at the church where he is going to educate people, then I’ll be damned.
I agree the Novus Ordo is valid, but where is the sacredness of the LATIN Rite churches in the Orlando diocese? Why can’t I get an atmosphere like that of EWTN? Why must I plead with the Bishop’s office to offer the TLM when they are looking for someone to pay as a part time job to head up an HIV/AIDS (code name for sodomite) ministry in the diocese? Nevermind that our Holy Father asked the Bishops 17 years ago to be generous in granting Tridentine Masses. Why am I treated like a second class Catholic in Orlando ahead of the immigrants and sodomites who are glorified and in the later case apoligized for by the past bishop? I thought we are all equal as Catholics? I guess not. I guess Christ was right that we all will be crucified and suffer.
I agree the Novus Ordo is valid, but where is the sacredness of the LATIN Rite churches in the Orlando diocese? Why can’t I get an atmosphere like that of EWTN? Why must I plead with the Bishop’s office to offer the TLM when they are looking for someone to pay as a part time job to head up an HIV/AIDS (code name for sodomite) ministry in the diocese? Nevermind that our Holy Father asked the Bishops 17 years ago to be generous in granting Tridentine Masses. Why am I treated like a second class Catholic in Orlando ahead of the immigrants and sodomites who are glorified and in the later case apoligized for by the past bishop? I thought we are all equal as Catholics? I guess not. I guess Christ was right that we all will be crucified and suffer.
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TNT
Guest
Amen, brother. I went to one on Sat 5:30…St Agatha Feast…Simply splendid. Gave homily on the Saint. Then asked all to consider not watching the Superbowl as a penance for us and the Poor Souls. Which I did as he suggested.
In the end, it’s just toooooo Catholic. Therefore hated by the “church of love and diversity”.
ps. I’ll be damned also… we’ll go together, along with the SSPX Priest while he preaches on St Agatha.
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EddieArent
Guest
Whoops! I meant “behind,” not “ahead.”
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mgy100
Guest
I attended an indult mass this weekend out of state (was at my friend’s house). They actually moved the n.o. altar to the side. The old mass altar is sweet. One thing I’ve always noticed is they announce who died in the parish that week at the Tridentine mass homily.
They did do the confiteor and the miseratur (spelling may be wrong, tired and getting the flu) before communion and did ring the bells according to “before the final copy of the 1962 missal.” The place I usually go to follows “the final copy of the 1962 missal.”
Anyway, I just wish I don’t have to travel at least 2 hours to get a Tridentine Mass. Period.
They did do the confiteor and the miseratur (spelling may be wrong, tired and getting the flu) before communion and did ring the bells according to “before the final copy of the 1962 missal.” The place I usually go to follows “the final copy of the 1962 missal.”
Anyway, I just wish I don’t have to travel at least 2 hours to get a Tridentine Mass. Period.
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Podo2004
Guest
The tridentine mass makes you feel as if worshiping God like you’re nothing.It just tells you that there is a higher being over you and you have to worship him, but the mass doesn’t explain further like Jesus intended it to be! When you worship God you can do it in lots of ways, if we love each other then we are worshiping God( as he said whatever you do unto the least of my brothers, you do unto me) Socializing is one of the things, we are supposed to work as a community worshiping God not going solo that is b.s… And about the chapter in Matthew he says to obey his laws like do not murder etc… but he never said " You can not change the form of mass" Jesus was not a solemn figure that walks around with his hands together and prayed all the time, but He is a joyful and merciful Lord. That is why we celebrate mass each weekend(not like a regular party, but helping each other and fulfilling his word)
Have i made myself clear? If not then it’s useless to talk to you guys, It’s your way or no one’s How sad
Podo
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JNB
Guest
Podo, you are crossing far over the line, and to me it seems like you are posting intentionally inflamatory material. I do not know where you get your material, but even those who are more moderate on the issue of liturgy do not defend your off the wall comments.
Anyways, I recall from another one of your posts you are young, all I can say is when I was in my teens, I thought I knew everything as well, and in reality, I was a fool. Your lack of education, even on the 1970/75 missal and the documents of Vatican II itself is astounding.
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BulldogCath
Guest
I agree totally…we must pray for a return of the Traditional Latin Mass. The Novus Ordo Mass I believe is valid and I do attend, but there are to many questions in my head as to why the Mass was changed, and the Mass itself. If you ever go to a Lutheran service, I see many many similarities. Instead of the Protestants being converted to Catholicism by this Mass, this Mass has either driven good, pius Catholics into schism as they know something is wrong with this Mass or people just stopped going to Mass all together, as my Aunts and Uncles.
We need to start a letter writing campaign right to the Vatican, as many in my Parish have. if you go to your Bishop, I doubt you will get anywhere
EddieArent:
We need to start a letter writing campaign right to the Vatican, as many in my Parish have. if you go to your Bishop, I doubt you will get anywhere
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BulldogCath
Guest
Eddie
I am amazed each day when I hear what goes on, an HIV awareness? I was reading just yesterday that US priests are more than 4x likely to die of AIDS than the general population. Then I heard that the Canon Law of 1961, which John XXIII introduced but never enforced prohibiting homosexuality in the seminaries and priesthood, is to be repealed.
Being new here, I was on another string where we were talking about the GIRM and how the Bishops say you must stand to receive Our Lord, and if you kneel you will be denied.
DENIED FOR KNEELING!!! THEY WOULD NOT EVEN DENY COMMUNION TO TONY BLAIR, A NON CATHOLIC, JOHN KERRY AND ALL OF THE PRO ABORTIONISTS-BUT DENY IT TO A REVERENT CATHOLIC WHO WANTS TO KNEEL!!!
EddieArent:
I am amazed each day when I hear what goes on, an HIV awareness? I was reading just yesterday that US priests are more than 4x likely to die of AIDS than the general population. Then I heard that the Canon Law of 1961, which John XXIII introduced but never enforced prohibiting homosexuality in the seminaries and priesthood, is to be repealed.
Being new here, I was on another string where we were talking about the GIRM and how the Bishops say you must stand to receive Our Lord, and if you kneel you will be denied.
DENIED FOR KNEELING!!! THEY WOULD NOT EVEN DENY COMMUNION TO TONY BLAIR, A NON CATHOLIC, JOHN KERRY AND ALL OF THE PRO ABORTIONISTS-BUT DENY IT TO A REVERENT CATHOLIC WHO WANTS TO KNEEL!!!
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oat_soda
Guest
as much as i like the tridentine mass, i think the normative mass can be celebrated in a way which perserves many elements of the tridentine mass to the extent where it appears to have organically grown from the earlier form. if the new mass is only to blame then you should find evidence that the eastern catholics who have preserved their liturgies have not seen a significant drop in seminarians unlike the roman rite. but i know this isn’t the case.
the problem isn’t only the mass, it’s also canada and society as a whole. satan is attacking everyone. canada is about to legalize gay marriage. at least pres. bush is attempting to make gay marriage illegal nation wide. until recently, canada wouldn’t allow ewtn to be broadcast. canada is a disgrace along with spain, germany, and france.
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