Why the obsession with homsexuality?

[CRATUS]

The problem is the political noise is on both sides. On one side you have ultra right Christian fundamentalists who valorize the nuclear family and marriage to an almost idolatry level. Then you have leftist activists (especially prominent in secular culture) who have open hostility towards Christianity which is inevitably followed by an extreme over reaction by some Christians. Thus the pendulum continues to swing back and forth. So unfortunately the Catholic position in the middle never actually gets addressed. Instead, its “you must hate gays if you don’t support ‘gay marriage’” versus “we must protect the nuclear family against those facist godless gays mentality”. Neither side is interested in charity, they just want to win the culture war, and if that war has any collateral damage, neither extreme side has shown that they care. Unfortunately they are often the most vocal and prominently seen positions too.

I think this post hits the nail right on the head. I am ambivalent about whole gay rights issue. I am just so sick of anyone who does not agree with same-sex marriage ultimately being labeled as a bigot, homophobic, etc. I get the underlying message, if you are liberal or progressive you are “right”, but if you are conservative you are a hypocritical, “wrong”, judgmental Pharisee. I AM AWARE THIS IS MASSIVE GENERALIZATION. Depending on where you live, being labeled “liberal” is a good thing, being labeled “conservative” is a bad one.

 

[at9009]

This is a perception issue. The media is always looking for the extremist position, regardless of the issue. And how big is each side, really? Who’s going to watch peaceful protests on TV? The media wants us to see both sides yelling at each other. They want that. Not people just standing and praying.

We’re talking about an attempt to redefine a bedrock, foundational institution here. The Catholic position is always painted in a bad light, but those in favor of SSM are very careful about how they word things. Those in favor of SSM do have a list of “hate” groups and I’m not talking about the extremist minority.

Ed

It is a perception issue but its not unimportant. I rarely hear in public discourse the distinction between the inclination and acts. Unlike Catholic teaching, most don’t make a distinction (or imply), they consider both the inclination and the acts (whether physical of mental) sinful. The premise becomes once an SSA Christian is saved, their temptations will be eliminated (if they have enough faith/trust in Christ). If the SSA temptations remain, then it’s implied they aren’t saved and are in a sinful state rather than acknowledge it as cross/trial that may or not remain for the rest of a person’s life this side of Heaven. Ultimately, the SSA Christian loses hope and their faith. Rarely, is this misconception ever addressed. This misconception is what most gay people see as Christians unfortunately thus have no interest in even seeking God.

I agree that many SSM advocates consider the Catholic Church and others that hold a traditional sexual ethic as hate groups. The actions are wrong and it is incredibly frustrating. However, we can’t control their actions, we can only control ours. I don’t really know how to remedy this situation unfortunately. I do think that when people see more situations like how SSM activists attacked and threatened an Indiana Pizza owner versus her own graceful, charitable interview response on TV, they will see which side is in the wrong. .

On a side note, I think the Catholic Church has done the best job at recognized the dignity and humanity of SSA persons while upholding marriage as the sacred institution it is nor am I implying anyone here is one of those extremists.

 

[CRATUS]

I will NOT speak for LGBTQ people and say I understand the discrimination they face from “conservative Christian” groups. Some liberals can be a little too pushy. People have the right to disagree with SSM.

 

[edwest2]

But Ed, groups are rarely called homophobic for their views on SSM. It is only when they are ignorant and bigoted towards gay people as a whole that they get called out on. I am so tired of the strident defenders of the FRC virulently calling criticism of them as based on their opposition to gay marriage. It isn’t. They are homophobic because they believe gay people worship pedophiles and go on national television telling people that they need to fear gay people being around their kids.

It is easier to get sympathy by claiming that one is being called “homophobic” for being “opposed to SSM.” But that is rarely the case. When one digs deeper, there is ALWAYS some massive homophobic streak throughout the organization.

“Deep down, they’re all like that.”? Generalizations are usually not true. The same with assumptions. Homophobic? A phobia is an irrational fear. There is no irrational fear here. Yes, there are marked differences in sexual behavior but once one reviews what is happening in schools and the ‘education’ being provided by SSM advocates, the goal is indoctrination. Young minds are not mature enough to understand human sexuality, much less homosexuality, as adults are. That is a given.

abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=1230620

Ed

 

[JackVk]

There is, in fact, an obsession with homosexuality on this forum. I posted a “vent thread” the other day on how the culture wars are wearing me down, and it rapidly decayed into a debate on SSM. I am against SSM, but I am also sick and tired of the incessant outrage over it.

Let’s face it: we have lost the war for marriage. It has had all the success of Vietnam. It’s time to withdraw and “flee this evil generation”. Stop waging a culture war for a culture that has very little to save.

 

[signit]

I don’t see this as the case. Hope to hear more about how you came to this conclusion.

As the other poster said, and as I’ve said before, to my knowledge gays do not call Catholics or other Christians “bigots” just because they believe that God intended marriage as between a man and a woman. Most gays, again to my knowledge, respect that belief.

However, some conservative Christians have made inaccurate and/or hateful comments against gays, like the following:

splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/family-research-council

I don’t mind saying, it really bothers me when some conservative groups make negative comments about gays (they’re child abusers, they “recruit” young people, etc.), and then when someone calls them on it they play the victim card themselves and say, “Oh, you must hate Christians! You must be a BIGOT!”

On a side note, I think the Catholic Church has done the best job at recognized the dignity and humanity of SSA persons while upholding marriage as the sacred institution it is nor am I implying anyone here is one of those extremists.

Agreed.

 

[Havard]

As the other poster said, and as I’ve said before, to my knowledge gays do not call Catholics or other Christians “bigots” just because they believe that God intended marriage as between a man and a woman. Most gays, again to my knowledge, respect that belief.

However, some conservative Christians have made inaccurate and/or hateful comments against gays, like the following:

splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/family-research-council

I don’t mind saying, it really bothers me when some conservative groups make negative comments about gays (they’re child abusers, they “recruit” young people, etc.), and then when someone calls them on it they play the victim card themselves and say, “Oh, you must hate Christians! You must be a BIGOT!”

Agreed.

To clarify, I do see plenty of people labeling my Archbishop (Cordileone), Father Illo (pastor of the all-male altar server SF parish), and anyone in our diocese who agrees with them as bigoted. Even here on CAF, people have expressed these opinions.

So I definitely see real world examples on a regular basis that seem contrary to this idea that it’s only the “real bigots” that are being called bigots.

 

[kozlosap]

To clarify, I do see plenty of people labeling my Archbishop (Cordileone), Father Illo (pastor of the all-male altar server SF parish), and anyone in our diocese who agrees with them as bigoted. Even here on CAF, people have expressed these opinions.

So I definitely see real world examples on a regular basis that seem contrary to this idea that it’s only the “real bigots” that are being called bigots.

Ive read pretty extensively about the kerfuffle at Star of the Sea Parish. The two priests are from very small city/towns in the Central Valley and want to start their own very conservative community of both religious and lay people. Father Illo appears to be a very poor communicator, especially with the parish as a whole. Whoever recommended to the Arch Bishop that the Star of the Sea should be given part and parcel to these two needs to explain the rationale. Personnel decisions are a huge part of running organizations and there was a lapse in judgement in this case.

 

[Havard]

Ive read pretty extensively about the kerfuffle at Star of the Sea Parish. The two priests are from very small city/towns in the Central Valley and want to start their own very conservative community of both religious and lay people. Father Illo appears to be a very poor communicator, especially with the parish as a whole. Whoever recommended to the Arch Bishop that the Star of the Sea should be given part and parcel to these two needs to explain the rationale. Personnel decisions are a huge part of running organizations and there was a lapse in judgement in this case.

Star of the Sea was one of a literal handful of traditional parishes in our diocese before Father Illo came. Fr. Illo’s predecessor was the chaplain for the Traditional Latin Mass Society of San Francisco. If you’re going to install a more traditional pastor anywhere, I would think Star of the Sea would make the most sense.

By all accounts I’ve seen, the people expressing criticism have only identified as parents of students at the school, not as parishioners or former parishioners. Even the school-parish liason observed this. In my experience, it fits with the parish’s more traditional reputation. According to Fr. Illo, the attendance and collections are up.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Among the complaints in the full-page ad “signed by more than 100 prominent Roman Catholic donors and church members” that appeared in the San Francisco Chronicle was that the Archbishop had installed a pastor at Star of the Sea parish who had “inexplicably distributed to elementary school age children an age-inappropriate and potentially abusive, sexually oriented pamphlet” According to the San Francisco Chronicle, the pamphlet asked the children “whether they had masturbated, engaged in sodomy or undergone an abortion.”

sfgate.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Prominent-Catholics-call-on-pope-to-oust-S-F-6202539.php

CAF founder Karl Keating’s piece “Heart of a Lion” addresses that here, No.2!

sfgate is a favorite news source for LGBTs of course.
,

 

[TimothyH]

You just added to it.

Yours is the best reply on the whole thread.

-Tim-

 

[MarkInOregon]

I believe we should love and accept all people

Could you explain what you mean by “accept all people” please. How does or would your acceptance apply to Hitler, Stalin, Manson, child molesters, serial killers, those who beat their wives, bullies, racists, etc. When you say we should accept them–does that mean we need to accept and affirm their behavior? How accepting are we of smokers? Just what do you mean by we should accept all people? Just what kind of society would that yield in practice? Are we allowed to have any standards of behavior as a society because to do so means we are not accepting of some people–or is the idea of mandatory acceptance limited to the area of adult sexual behavior? I’m curious because I hear this all the time, and often from people who are not very accepting of those who disagree with them.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[SuperLuigi]

There is, in fact, an obsession with homosexuality on this forum. I posted a “vent thread” the other day on how the culture wars are wearing me down, and it rapidly decayed into a debate on SSM. I am against SSM, but I am also sick and tired of the incessant outrage over it.

Let’s face it: we have lost the war for marriage. It has had all the success of Vietnam. It’s time to withdraw and “flee this evil generation”. Stop waging a culture war for a culture that has very little to save.

If we’ve “lost the war” on marriage, why does most of the world still reject so-called gay “marriage” and why do key sections of liberal party bases in the West staunchly oppose it?

I’ve got news for everyone: wars can be weary, and wearing us down so we’ll give in is what they want. And why do they want that? Because their outlook and viewpoint on the issue cannot stand on its own merit.

The obsession with homosexuality comes mostly from young people in the West who are trying to look cool and neat in front of their friends, or it’s from someone who has a gay family member/friend and chooses to support their homosexuality activity over that of God.

It really comes down to many layers personal, wicked human selfishness where people take the easy way out.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I believe we should love and accept all people, but with all the multifactorial ambiguity of emotions versus research, different interpretations of morality between the religious and atheists, the Perception Shapers in the media, academia, and government, what is a principled, caring, rational person supposed to Believe?

The TRUTH as we always have and always will.

The institutions of academia, media, government and even religion in many cases is ripe with scandal.

If one pays attention to this issue, he/she would know:

1. The mainstream Western media is very sympathetic to so-called gay “marriage”.
2. Academic “research” is often designed to fit an agenda. We are finally seeing information showing that so-called gay “marriage” is not a benefit to society but is something that will need to be carried and will be a burden to the state.
3. Governments are corrupt. In Western democracies the fact is being pro-gay “marriage” gets votes and campaign contributions. That’s why President Obama and the Clintons so conveniently changed their minds on the issue.

 

[Thomas1981]

To clarify, I do see plenty of people labeling my Archbishop (Cordileone), Father Illo (pastor of the all-male altar server SF parish), and anyone in our diocese who agrees with them as bigoted. Even here on CAF, people have expressed these opinions.

So I definitely see real world examples on a regular basis that seem contrary to this idea that it’s only the “real bigots” that are being called bigots.

This is what upsets me the most. I have many gay friends. Heck, I’ve even been to a wedding reception for a family friend that was a lesbian (she’s divorced and with a man now, but besides the point). I have always, even in high school, stood up to gay friends when they were being bullied. I have nothing but love and compassion for all of my gay friends. However, if they asked me if I thought having sex with a member of the same sex is sinful I would say “yes.” In some ways it hurts me to say this. I would rather be able to just say “no” and we would never have to deal with this. But, as someone who believes in God and the truth of the Bible and the Catholic Church, affirming their sin would be a cowardly act and a poor witness on my part, and it could jeopardize an opportunity to help them spiritually. I don’t say “yes” it is a sin because I hate them, I say yes because I love them. I know most people wouldn’t believe this to be a loving act. But that is only because most people have a shallow sense of love that doesn’t go beyond affirmation and causal companionship. And most people don’t understand that Christian love means telling the truth even when it hurts, mutually hurts. I wouldn’t expect my friend to agree with my position, but I would expect them, if they are truly my friend, to not have our friendship based on our sociopolitical/sexual/religious beliefs perfectly overlapping. I would expect my friend to understand that my beliefs are based on good intentions, whether or not he agrees with them.

What has been so upsetting to me is that I struggle and pray that the hostility I feel coming from the LGBT movement in general towards people like me does not seep into my heart and cause me to be what they accuse me of. I do not want to deliver and eye for an eye, but to turn the other cheek, that is, to be Christ-like, but it isn’t easy. I do get angry when I feel like I’m being smeared unfairly, I get angry when I’m told I’m going the way of the do-do bird (in a smug fashion), I get angry when my good intentions are spurned as hatred and bigotry. But, I cannot let that anger conquer me. I try to do my best to nail those things to the cross.

 

[Captain_America]

some good comments here;

my own two cents is

----the issue keeps getting thrown in my face. Me, I would pay money NOT to hear about gays for the rest of my life. I wish the gays would STFU.

----as an old poli sci major, I AM deeply upset (unsettled even) by the very clear instance here, in this issue, of how democracy can be rolled, can be pushed around, by a monied minority. . . to the point of being rule by a minority rather than the majority.

----it ALSO shows how cheap and flimsy the idea of basing political authority on “legal rights” is. . . all you have to do is assert, assert that something is a “right” and you get your way. Courts need to take a hard look at common law decisionmaking.

 

[JimG]

A good question. Why the obsession indeed? At no time in history has there been such an obsession with homosexuality to the extent of clamoring for same sex couples to get “married.” We live in strange and unreasonable times.

 

[Thorolfr]

This is what upsets me the most. I have many gay friends. Heck, I’ve even been to a wedding reception for a family friend that was a lesbian (she’s divorced and with a man now, but besides the point). I have always, even in high school, stood up to gay friends when they were being bullied. I have nothing but love and compassion for all of my gay friends. However, if they asked me if I thought having sex with a member of the same sex is sinful I would say “yes.” In some ways it hurts me to say this. I would rather be able to just say “no” and we would never have to deal with this. But, as someone who believes in God and the truth of the Bible and the Catholic Church, affirming their sin would be a cowardly act and a poor witness on my part, and it could jeopardize an opportunity to help them spiritually. I don’t say “yes” it is a sin because I hate them, I say yes because I love them. I know most people wouldn’t believe this to be a loving act. But that is only because most people have a shallow sense of love that doesn’t go beyond affirmation and causal companionship. And most people don’t understand that Christian love means telling the truth even when it hurts, mutually hurts. I wouldn’t expect my friend to agree with my position, but I would expect them, if they are truly my friend, to not have our friendship based on our sociopolitical/sexual/religious beliefs perfectly overlapping. I would expect my friend to understand that my beliefs are based on good intentions, whether or not he agrees with them.

Unfortunately, it is difficult for most conservative religious people to both be loving towards gays and lesbians and to show their disapproval at the same time. Just to give an example, my partner and I have been together in a committed and monogamous relationship for almost 18 years, own a house and a car together, have pets together, go to a liberal Christian church together, have friends and hobbies together and spend most of our time together. Our friends and most of the members of the church we attend consider us to be a couple.

But my partner’s conservative Christian relatives have decided that it is necessary for them to show their disapproval of our relationship by telling my partner that I am not welcome to attend family gatherings with him. His father pretends that I do not exist, and sends Christmas cards addressed only to his son. On the few occasions he has called, he asks only to talk to his son. Even after almost two decades, his family doesn’t know me and has no interest in getting to know me since they are convinced that doing so would be a sign that they approve of our relationship. I’ve only met his sister and his father once. The result is that my partner has barely talked to or seen anyone in his family in more than two decades since he refuses to attend family gatherings without me. All of this is a source of pain for both him and his father especially and if his family’s actions are loving, I fail to see it.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

This is what upsets me the most. I have many gay friends. Heck, I’ve even been to a wedding reception for a family friend that was a lesbian (she’s divorced and with a man now, but besides the point). I have always, even in high school, stood up to gay friends when they were being bullied. I have nothing but love and compassion for all of my gay friends. However, if they asked me if I thought having sex with a member of the same sex is sinful I would say “yes.” In some ways it hurts me to say this. I would rather be able to just say “no” and we would never have to deal with this. But, as someone who believes in God and the truth of the Bible and the Catholic Church, affirming their sin would be a cowardly act and a poor witness on my part, and it could jeopardize an opportunity to help them spiritually. I don’t say “yes” it is a sin because I hate them, I say yes because I love them. I know most people wouldn’t believe this to be a loving act. But that is only because most people have a shallow sense of love that doesn’t go beyond affirmation and causal companionship. And most people don’t understand that Christian love means telling the truth even when it hurts, mutually hurts. I wouldn’t expect my friend to agree with my position, but I would expect them, if they are truly my friend, to not have our friendship based on our sociopolitical/sexual/religious beliefs perfectly overlapping. I would expect my friend to understand that my beliefs are based on good intentions, whether or not he agrees with them.

What has been so upsetting to me is that I struggle and pray that the hostility I feel coming from the LGBT movement in general towards people like me does not seep into my heart and cause me to be what they accuse me of. I do not want to deliver and eye for an eye, but to turn the other cheek, that is, to be Christ-like, but it isn’t easy. I do get angry when I feel like I’m being smeared unfairly, I get angry when I’m told I’m going the way of the do-do bird (in a smug fashion), I get angry when my good intentions are spurned as hatred and bigotry. But, I cannot let that anger conquer me. I try to do my best to nail those things to the cross.

Well said Thomas. Well said! I don’t think I could have put it any better. The coming days are going to be a real challenge.

“Lord, make me a channel of your peace…”

Peace,
Robert

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

To clarify, I do see plenty of people labeling my Archbishop (Cordileone), Father Illo (pastor of the all-male altar server SF parish), and anyone in our diocese who agrees with them as bigoted. Even here on CAF, people have expressed these opinions.

So I definitely see real world examples on a regular basis that seem contrary to this idea that it’s only the “real bigots” that are being called bigots.

If Archbishop Cordileone is your bishop then we should clearly argue in person as we are practically neighbors.