Why was it necessary for our salvation for Jesus to be horribly crucified?

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irishcolleen45 said:
When I reflect on Jesus’ Crucifixion, I have to wonder why it was necessary for Jesus to be treated by the Romans worse than any other criminal. What is God telling us?
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That our hearts are hardened. We see it in our world today. Our brother’s suffering has to be nigh apocalyptic before our hearts are inflamed enough to do something.

Like many others I had to hit rock bottom before I turned to God. If the goal is to love my neighbor as I love myself & I will hit rock bottom before I even save myself (repent)

Imagine how low the rest of you have to get before true compassion moves me.

& like meltzerboy so eloquently said
meltzerboy2 said:
the fact that G-d instructed Moses to use a snake reveals that even an animal that was the source of much suffering to Adam and Eve by tempting them to rebel against G-d can be used by G-d for a beneficial purpose, thereby showing that G-d is ultimately in control of mankind’s happiness instead
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Or was it the Blessed Fulton Sheen?

From the greatest tragedy God can bring the greatest grace (paraphrasing)
 
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irishcolleen45 said:
What is God telling us?
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God is telling us that in an evil world, a man who fully embodies God’s Living Presence will not end up admired and teaching his followers while living out his days in peace and modest comfort. Rather, he will end up abandoned, ridiculed, humiliated, and condemned.
 
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It wasn’t necessary - our Lord and God and Savior Jesus Christ created the entire universe from nothing; He could save the world by simply willing it.

Rather, He chose this Paschal Mystery: No one takes my life from me, I lay it down on my own accord.

Kenosis - He emptied Himself and took on the form of a slave.

There is no greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for a friend,
Deacon Christopher
 
meltzerboy2 said:
The Jewish interpretation of Moses lifting up the snake is NOT that the snake possesses any kind of divine power to grant life to the people. It is rather the people looking upward to heaven that is the purpose of putting the snake on the pole, and by doing so, the people are seeking life from G-d instead of pursuing their customary earthly and materialistic behavior to satisfy their needs. Further, the fact that G-d instructed Moses to use a snake reveals that even an animal that was the source of much suffering to Adam and Eve by tempting them to rebel against G-d can be used by G-d for a beneficial purpose, thereby showing that G-d is ultimately in control of mankind’s happiness instead of a superstitious belief in the magical power of an animal.
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Yes. Exactly. It was a foreshadowing in the Divine pedagogy; the Creator teaching mankind the divine lesson in love, repentance and forgiveness. Thus Jesus said:

“Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.” -John 3:14-15 . . . “And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.” -John 12:32-33

God’s gradual self-revelation to mankind, beginning through Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, leading to Him revealing His name to Moses, was all part of the Divine pedagogy. Thus foreshadowed what was to culminate with the Creator Himself coming into the world in the Person of Christ (the Messiah) to teach and redeem humanity.

It’s a lesson in repentance and forgiveness, through true love for God and neighbor, which ultimately leads to healing and true peace and the ultimate salvation from death through Jesus Christ, who like the bronze snake, hung on the cross for all to see. It was all part of God’s Plan of Salvation:

“Jesus was going up to Jerusalem. On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life.” -Matt. 20:17-19
 
It does say in the gospels that he didn’t really want to kill him, he tried to give Jesus an “out”. I mean, he was a monster. I agree with you on that. The Jews were notoriously difficult to rule by pagans. Probably why they sent him there in the first place.
 
Though the suffering was not necessary because He was God. In a different sense, the suffering on the cross was necessary to fulfill what was written in the old testament.

Mk 15:34 • ‘And at the ninth hour, Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying: Eloi, Eloi, lamma sabacthani? Which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?’

DRB Ps 21, other bibles may have Ps 22
Ps 21:2 • ‘O God my God, look upon me: why hast thou forsaken me? Far from my salvation are the words of my sins.’ …

Jesus intended to fulfill one of many prophecies on the cross. When he cried out, he was quoting the Psalm 21(22) which describes the terrible suffering that the Christ would experience.

This is one of the most heart rending psalms that describes the pain, and isolation he felt. The piercing of hands and feet, the pouring forth of water and blood from his side, his being stripped of clothes which were cast for lots, his thirst, and physical weakness, the numbering of his bones because he was stretched out on an accursed tree, etc. Its absolutely terrible. Jesus, with his explicit words on the cross, with precious moments left, is citing this psalm to teach us that his suffering was part of prophecy.
 
irenaeuslyons said:
In a different sense, the suffering on the cross was necessary to fulfill what was written in the old testament.
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I’m pretty sure it was prophesied because it was part of the plan from the beginning. From our beginning. God sees the beginning & the end at the same “time” He is eternal.

If God did not plan Calvary, there would not have been the prophesies you quoted.

All that to say, imo the prophesies can’t be used as a “cause” for Calvary.
 
Justin_Mary said:
I’m pretty sure it was prophesied because it was part of the plan from the beginning. From our beginning. God sees the beginning & the end at the same “time” He is eternal.
If God did not plan Calvary, there would not have been the prophesies you quoted.
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I think your are attributing words to me I did not use, nor intend, at all.

Where did I say it was not planned from the beginning? I was talking about prophecy and prophecy is God’s pre-announced plan. God was following his plan on the Cross. I agree 100%.
Justin_Mary said:
All that to say, imo the prophesies can’t be used as a “cause” for Calvary.
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I did not say the prophecy “caused” the passion. It most certainly was not. That’s taking what I said way too far. But Jesus did explicitly link his passion with that psalm to teach us that God planned it from the beginning as you say, and I agree.
 
I think it’s more poignant to realize it was not strictly necessary, but this was a result of our free will and God let it happen to show that he enters into our suffering, rather than spares us from suffering. Love is made perfect amid great suffering and Jesus exemplified this, even though he did not need to in order to accomplish the Father’s will. “Let this cup pass from me…” Out of the greatest collective sin we have ever committed — deicide — comes our salvation.

I think it was Chesterton who responded to Nietzsche’s proclamation that “God is dead” affirmatively; yes, whenever we look at the crucifix, there He is: dying or dead. But that’s not the end of the story.
 
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I think Jesus who is God could have saved the world by saying a simple prayer.

However, it was necessary to fulfill the scriptures and to demonstrate what it really means to love which is to lay down your life for your friends.

That’s right he laid down his life for his friends in his time and also for the rest of time probably for those who want and choose to keep friendship with God at the end of their lives. This is just my speculation.
 
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The Passionists are a holy order with a special charism and devotion to the Lord’s passion. Maybe peruse their site and pick up some tidbits.


As to the grace to follow, you go to adoration, right? No shorter path to Christ.
 
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The way I think of it: God the Father gave the world and the human race to His Son as a gift. When Adam fell God the Father was tempted to wipe out this experiment and the Son said no. Father let me become man and show them how to behave! What true love is. The Father agreed!
 
I cannot imagine what it is to have suffered in the way you have. But our Lord understands suffering; and in Psalm 34 says -

18; The Lord is close to the brokenhearted
and saves those who are crushed in spirit.

When there seems to be no answers in this world, we can only hope for a greater good life after death.

May God bless you with his love.
 
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