Why was the forbidden tree in the garden?

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AgnosTheist said:
Stop thinking like a christian for a second, and stop assuming that God wants stuff from us. If he wants something from you, he will probably tell you himself and give you the means to confirm that you are not losing your marbles.

When the CC was still in power those who asked the wrong questions ended up being tied to the stake and fastforwarded into the afterlife.
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For myself, I was a cradle Catholic who didn’t believe and left the church early on. Later I was to spend years looking for truth mainly outside but sometimes inside of Christianity. I wanted to know if there even was such thing as a “larger” truth or answers to the big questions in life or was it all a meaningless game ending in death- and I didn’t much care where I found the answers. I think that’s all it takes- a heart that wants to know -and God, of His own accord, simply responds, sometimes in small ways that draw us in for a closer look and sometimes in mind-blowing ways that show you in no uncertain terms that you haven’t lost your marbles. It just happened to be the CC, to my own surprise, that ended up with something really worth listening to.

I wish there’d never been priests or popes or bishops or any other members of the church who did things against her own gospel. They certainly haven’t helped the cause but they go far in proving that her gospel is correct-maybe especially the part about original sin and the fall of man. What we believe is that God, cuz that’s what he wanted to do, put a revelation about Himself and His will into the hands of foolish man and ensured that that revelation-that gospel-wouldn’t be corrupted in spite of us. Thats why we hold it so dear.

It’s not unreasonable to believe in a creator-god. It just so happens that this same God will prove himself to you if given a half-way chance and the benefit of the doubt. Pride was my main obstacle to this.
 
It is sadly true that some clerics, including members of the hierarchy, have adopted ideas and actions contrary to the teaching of the gospel. My business is not to judge them, but to pray for them. No one who has spent significant time among clerics or religious has found every experience uplifting. They, far more than you and I, are marked by Satan for constant spiritual affliction in an effort to undo any good that might come from their labors. With this in mind, it becomes imperative that we pray consistently and with great diligence for them. If they fall short, my question is, “Have I fallen short in praying diligently for them; have I done for them what Jesus did for Peter who was earmarked by Satan to be sifted like wheat?”
Unless I can answer affirmatively to these questions, I had best get on my knees when some cleric fails to let the light of Christ shine through him.
 
Danno2281 said:
It is sadly true that some clerics, including members of the hierarchy, have adopted ideas and actions contrary to the teaching of the gospel. My business is not to judge them, but to pray for them. No one who has spent significant time among clerics or religious has found every experience uplifting. They, far more than you and I, are marked by Satan for constant spiritual affliction in an effort to undo any good that might come from their labors. With this in mind, it becomes imperative that we pray consistently and with great diligence for them. If they fall short, my question is, “Have I fallen short in praying diligently for them; have I done for them what Jesus did for Peter who was earmarked by Satan to be sifted like wheat?”
Unless I can answer affirmatively to these questions, I had best get on my knees when some cleric fails to let the light of Christ shine through him.
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While it is true that we judge the Catholic Church on the failures of men to uphold its propositions, we must remember that the Church is a hospital for sinners. There are no members that are not sinners.

The Church herself is judged unfairly by the failures of men.
 
samoht said:
Brian Millar;3676867:
I am not sure why you refer to me as “old man” unless you are of my age. I have been a regular member since January 2008 and posted many times. And if you knew me you would not refer to me as an old man. But be that as it may I will take it as a compliment. I mostly prefer to read what others have to say and ask questions when appropriate. I think we all should remember when posting that none of us knows the mind of God and sometime there are comments that one thinks they know what God is thinking. Just food for thought.
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At least in the Queen’s English - accept no substitutes - phrases like:​

  • old man
  • old fruit
  • old bean
    **are or were indices of friendship & familarity; and so, complimentary. **
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Danno2281 said:
They, far more than you and I, are marked by Satan for constant spiritual affliction
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And the Vatican is helping Satan by denying the priests the human fulfillment that can only be found in Marriage.
 
JohnMac said:
Did you read anything in my post before responding to it? You don’t acknowledge or address any of the contentions of the serpent being the liar and the murderer.
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that’s because despite your post, a plain reading of the story does not depict the serpent as either a murderer or a liar. In order to view the serpent as such, you have to ascribe meaning to the story that isn’t there.
 
AgnosTheist said:
And the Vatican is helping Satan by denying the priests the human fulfillment that can only be found in Marriage.
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I have no wish to go into the reasons for priestly celibacy. Jesus suggests it, (Mt 19, 10-12), Paul explains it(1Cor: 7, 32-34) and the Church practised it from apostolic times, long before She demended it. I suggest Cardinal Stickler’s book, THE APOSTOLIC ORIGINS OF PRIESTLY CELIBACY. If you will read it without prejudice, you will see things very differently. The fact is that an even greater fulfillment can be theirs than the human fulfillment of which you speak.
 
This thread is straying from the OP. Please stay on topic and take side discussions to new or existing threads. Thank you all.
 
Valke2 said:
that’s because despite your post, a plain reading of the story does not depict the serpent as either a murderer or a liar. In order to view the serpent as such, you have to ascribe meaning to the story that isn’t there.
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So when the the serpent told Eve “You shall not surely die,” what what the serpent doing if not lying?
 
AgnosTheist said:
yeah tough luck, huh. we are nothing but insects that has no choice but to play along with the masters wishes. god just wanna have fun. 😃
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**Maybe there is something in that 🙂 - someone has suggested (if I could only find his site) that the God of Genesis is a child. It’s an interesting idea, even if does not entirely convince. **​

 
rpp said:
So when the the serpent told Eve “You shall not surely die,” what what the serpent doing if not lying?
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Actually, the serpent told the truth​

**Compare: **
  • **Gen 2.17 - what God said **
  • Gen 3.4f. - what the serpent said
    God
Gen. 2.17
  • **15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.” **
    Fulfilled ? No - Adam lived for 930 years:
  • **1 This is the written account of Adam’s line. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them “man.” 3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. 4 After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 5 Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died. **
    God: 0
The Serpent
**Gen 3.4f. **
  • **1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” **
    **2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ " **
  • **4 “You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” **
  • You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.
  • You will be like God…
  • **…knowing good and evil. **
    **They did not die **
    they did obtain knowledge of good and evil
    they did become God-like
Serpent: 3

**What is one to make of the complete accuracy of the serpent, & the complete inaccuracy of God 🤷 ? God was completely mistaken in the one prediction He made - the serpent was completely accurate in all predictions that he made. It is at least very remarkable that the Torah should, so early on, show God being so spectacularly inaccurate & wrong. **
 
Again I refer you all to Fr. Jones’ book, UNLESS SOME MAN SHOW ME. Yes, man did arrogate to himself what is God’s, seeking to be like God (the image in which he was made) on his terms rather than on God’s, and on that day death entered into his future - he lost his preternatural gifts. In becoming godlike, in choosing to make himself the determinator of what is good and what is evil, he, acting like God, seperated himself from God, the source of life.
In deceiving Eve into acting against God’s command, he brought about death, becoming a liar in saying “You shall not die,” and a murderer in causing death, the enemey that Jesus finally overcomes, to rule over mankind.
The whole purpose of Jesus’ advent is to overcome, to undo the devil’s work (1Jn 3,8b) so that we might have life, and have it more abundantly (Jn: 10, 10).
 
👍 What a wonderful God we have. He knows all things. If you want to know the wisdom of God, then be ready to believe in Him, In his Son Jesus and in the power of the Holy spirit.
And then Humble yourself, knowing that God finds delight in the Humble.

God will never force you to serve Him, it is a choice. They (Adam and Eve) made their choice. You can likewise make your own choice now. They have lived their time, and now you have to live your own time, but be sure, you dont live footprint that will affect lives and generations because that was what they (Adam and Eve) did.

Whatever God does. He knows why, but all you should know is that God remains God, and there is nothing any man can do about that.

seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened, ask and you shall recieve. Who ever ask of the Holy spirit from God, God will never refuse you.👍
 
Getting back to why the tree was in the garden to begin with. It was probably a story that biblical man was familar with. A magic tree guarded by the Gods. (similar to the story of stealing fire?).

What is interesting is that, unlike other stories of its kind, the Garden of Eden focuses on a tree of knowledge, rather than a tree of immortality, which is regulated to the sidelines of the story.

Why didn’t the serpent tempt Eve with fruit from the tree of life? Don’t we usually prefer life over knowledge?

If we look at the begining of the story of man and his relationship with God we see that, as we get older as a people, our relationship becomes more distant. Adam speaks with God, Enoch, walks with God, God speaks with Abraham, Noah, Moses, and after Moses, through prophets via visions and after prophets, He remains silent (putting the Christian Bible aside for the moment).

LIke all children, we eventually strive for some independence from our parent. GOd cannot take care of every need without smothering something in us.
 
^ Valke, I almost said the same thing yesterday. But I thought it would further inflame the christians if that idea came from a complete infidel like me. Good thing you said it. 😃

Children were meant to learn independence. If I am to make sense of that story, I’d say that God had set up the whole thing to teach the couple how to be independent. How to learn from mistakes.
 
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