Why was the forbidden tree in the garden?

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JohnMac said:
Our first parents were created in the state of integrity due to the preternatural gifts and the infusion of supernatural grace. It is ignorant to compare them with children.

God gave them everything and asked only obedience of them. Sad to say, we continue to make the same mistake they did to this day.
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yeah the bible god gave them everything including the serpent and the poisoned fruit. no daddy in his right mind would do that to his kids.

5yr olds have a state of integrity, but also a state of ignorance. The same with Adam & Eve. Those two did not have the sufficient knowledge to make an informed decision. Like Minors.
 
AgnosTheist said:
yeah the bible god gave them everything including the serpent and the poisoned fruit. no daddy in his right mind would do that to his kids.

5yr olds have a state of integrity, but also a state of ignorance. The same with Adam & Eve. Those two did not have the sufficient knowledge to make an informed decision. Like Minors.
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Just though I would comment on this -
You dont need organized religion to believe in and appreciate the Divine.

Disorganized religion is much preferred. 😉
 
AgnosTheist said:
yeah the bible god gave them everything including the serpent and the poisoned fruit. no daddy in his right mind would do that to his kids.

5yr olds have a state of integrity, but also a state of ignorance. The same with Adam & Eve. Those two did not have the sufficient knowledge to make an informed decision. Like Minors.
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Virtually every human being loves and clings to his or her existence, tacitly agreeing with God that even in this screwed up world, life is worth it. So if this place is Gods’ schoolroom where we all come to know good and evil by experience and can learn that evil comes from and ultimately is separation from God, and so have the opportunity here to rectify Adams’ rejection of Him by our turning back to Him, then this life’s well worth it.
 
AgnosTheist said:
we are getting off topic here. though i would love to answer that. 😃
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In a way we are on topic.

you - Personal Religion. All we really need is the Golden Rule.

This is what happened in the garden. We know better than God.

In your posts you do not show humility. You show pride.

I will not believe unless God taps me…
I will not believe because I know better…
I will not believe because I cannot touch… (Didymus - doubting Thomas)
I cannot believe because…etc…
I will not believe because God does not meet my conditions…
I will not believe because God does not meet my expectations…

Who are you to demand God respond?
 
AgnosTheist said:
the way religion is defined, I dont really have one. I only have faith, not religion.

Who are you to say what God wants? I make demands based on what people claim. Otherwise I dont demand anything from God.
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I have no authority to say what God wants. I learn from the wisdom of other that have gone before me. I learn from Revelation. I learn from the Magisterium. I learn from Tradition.

So your heart and mind are open to God? Any preconditions?
 
buffalo said:
I have no authority to say what God wants. I learn from the wisdom of other that have gone before me. I learn from Revelation. I learn from the Magisterium. I learn from Tradition.
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Then who are your magesterium to say what God wants? I would listen to God himself, [edited].

If you want to argue that they speak on behalf of God, then prove it. Incredible claims require incredible proofs.
 
AgnosTheist said:
Then who are your magesterium to say what God wants? They are nothing but a bunch of narrowminded men who wants to control how people thinks.

I would listen to God himself, [edited].

If you want to argue that they speak on behalf of God, then prove it. Incredible claims require incredible proofs.
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Yes, but how do we trust ourselves to know what God wants, either, especially without any revelation from Him? Most people who take the Catholic faith seriously have gotten there by questioning the proposed truths and finding a correspondence with the realities of both the world they live in and the “world” within themselves.
 
AgnosTheist said:
Then who are your magesterium to say what God wants? I would listen to God himself, not from a bunch of superstitious men who wants to control how people think.

If you want to argue that they speak on behalf of God, then prove it. Incredible claims require incredible proofs.
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So that is your preconditioned thinking - superstitious men who want control? Did you prove that to yourself independently or did you learn of this from some source?
 
Agno,

What you are trying to do is question God, and God’s answer for you would be something in line of asking you, where you were when he formed the universe, where were you when he breathed life into all living things, where were you when he created his divine plan?

So, you reject the God of the bible, this only makes sense for someone that desires to worship a false God, one that they custom tailor to their own personal needs, this is idol worship in a classic sense. We have so much he’s given us to learn from in order that we may know him, it is impossible for a man to know God if his heart is full of pride. I mentioned this sin in a previous post here, it’s the most dangerous one that exists, you should be mindful of it, we all should be, for it is a trap, Adam and Eve were the first to fall for it, having pride in their own understanding over God’s command. The serpent mentioned a few words, it was still their choice to eat of it, or to obey God. They could just as easily asked God why this creature is tempting them and God would have been happy to accomodate them directly, for they conversed with him on a regular basis and the converstation clearly went both ways.

BTW, from the description of what I’m reading, the serpent was transformed into a worm, not a snake, ie. crawling on it’s belly, eating dust, put into a very, very low spot in the ecosystem and speceise.
 
fhansen said:
Yes, but how do we trust ourselves to know what God wants, either, especially without any revelation from Him?
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Stop thinking like a christian for a second, and stop assuming that God wants stuff from us. If he wants something from you, he will probably tell you himself and give you the means to confirm that you are not losing your marbles.
fhansen said:
Most people who take the Catholic faith seriously have gotten there by questioning the proposed truths and finding a correspondence with the realities of both the world they live in and the “world” within themselves.
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When the CC was still in power those who asked the wrong questions ended up being tied to the stake and fastforwarded into the afterlife.
 
buffalo said:
So that is your preconditioned thinking - superstitious men who want control? Did you prove that to yourself independently or did you learn of this from some source?
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it was mainly my own findings. i was a skeptic since i was very young. a cruel priest made me question how is it that the man claims to represent god.
 
AgnosTheist said:
it was mainly my own findings. i was a skeptic since i was very young. a cruel priest made me question how is it that the man claims to represent god.
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Do you have sources for these findings? Or was it more of an emotional finding?

Perhaps I am looking too deep here - did your experience with the cruel priest negate your ability to experience God?
 
Brian_Millar said:
What you are trying to do is question God
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nope. i am just questioning your claims about god.
Brian_Millar said:
So, you reject the God of the bible, this only makes sense for someone that desires to worship a false God, one that they custom tailor to their own personal needs, this is idol worship in a classic sense.
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no, idolatry in the classic sense is someone who bows before statues.
Brian_Millar said:
They could just as easily asked God why this creature is tempting them
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adam & eve were not that smart to begin with. adam did not even bother to think for 1 second before giving in to peer pressure.

it was the bible god who maneuvered them into taking the bait. in the real world that person would be held responsible.
 
buffalo said:
Do you have sources for these findings? Or was it more of an emotional finding?

Perhaps I am looking too deep here - did your experience with the cruel priest negate your ability to experience God?
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no. i am still experiencing god today.

the priest merely helped in opening my eyes to the realization that you dont need the magistrate to experience god. all you need is faith.
 
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