Why was the forbidden tree in the garden?

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Our God is a God of Love. Everything He does is to express His Love. In allowing us the opportunity to reject Him, we can then show Him love.
We’re in the Philosophy forum, so let’s put a philosophical spin on this 😉 Have you ever read Plato’s “Timaeus” ? The Demiurge, which is the god of that story, is a god of necessity. If he does something, it is because it was deemed necessary to do so. Contrast with our God, who didn’t have to do anything, but did it anyways, as an act of Love.
Keep going!!!
 
Our God is a God of Love. Everything He does is to express His Love. In allowing us the opportunity to reject Him, we can then show Him love.
We’re in the Philosophy forum, so let’s put a philosophical spin on this 😉 Have you ever read Plato’s “Timaeus” ? The Demiurge, which is the god of that story, is a god of necessity. If he does something, it is because it was deemed necessary to do so. Contrast with our God, who didn’t have to do anything, but did it anyways, as an act of Love.
Keep going!!!
Haha, ok…let me refer to my essay… 😉 I actually only cover the Tree of Knowledge obliquely, with respect to it being the thing used to bring sin and death and disease into the world, and then God’s response to it, but here are a couple examples of Love versus Necessity. Perhaps we have found a general principle in God’s motive, which we can extend to other areas.

Firstly, the Demiurge creates from chaos. He saw the chaos, and in order that it should be more perfect, he created the universe. Yahweh, on the other hand, created ex nihilo, thus suggesting an alternate motive. But…love for a universe? Maybe, but let’s go on.

Why create man? The Demiurge saw that the universe was incomplete. Therefore, he created man. Our source materials on Yahweh, on the other hand, show no such compulsion. Instead, the Baltimore Catechism says that God made man “to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him forever in heaven” (Question 6). The God of Love has created us so that we may love Him, and then bask in His Love forever. In the previous paragraph, we questioned whether Yahweh could “love” a universe. We can see now that He created the universe as an act of Love towards us, the beings that He had not yet created (pointing in a way to His omniscience).

So how did our contenders create man? Yahweh, as with the universe, took the simple route in creating man. He picked up some dust, formed it into a man, and then breathed life into his nostrils (Genesis 2:7). The Demiurge again took the roundabout way and first created intermediate gods, and instructed them to create the body of the man, and he would attach the soul to the body (Plato 55-57). In the universe of Necessity, the Demiurge makes the intermediate gods do it because anything he creates would necessarily be immortal, and in order for the universe to be more perfect, it needs mortal beings. He is remote, as necessity dictates. Yahweh, on the other hand, gives of His very Self when He forms the man out of dust, and then breathes His own Spirit into him, thus making the man in His own Image, thereby making the man capable of the love that God desires for him.

Thank all y’all for y’all’s attention, if you want to read the whole thing, PM me 🙂
 
Now let’s work on the talking snake idea.

We know from Scripture that Jesus cast out demons from humans. Today, excorcists cast out demons from those afflicted. The demons are the devil who overtakes a life form.

So, is it so ridiculous and naive to think the devil could not have possessed a serpent? Hardly.
There is no reference or indication in the garden of Eden story that the serpent was the devil or was possessed. In fact, there are two things we know about the serpent. One is that it had legs. And two is that it was the most cunning of all the animals at the time.
 
There is no reference or indication in the garden of Eden story that the serpent was the devil or was possessed. In fact, there are two things we know about the serpent. One is that it had legs. And two is that it was the most cunning of all the animals at the time.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning . . . he is a liar, and the father of it’ (John 8:44).

Who was Jesus referring to here - from the beginning? What happened at the beginning?

‘Satan entered into him’ (John 13:26–27) This is referring to Judas at the Last Supper. So we know that Satan can act and take over a body.

It sure seems like there was a real encounter.
 
Too bad Eve didn’t have a recipe for snake stew, it would have made a nice twist on this story, hehe. 🙂
 
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning . . . he is a liar, and the father of it’ (John 8:44).

Who was Jesus referring to here - from the beginning? What happened at the beginning?

‘Satan entered into him’ (John 13:26–27) This is referring to Judas at the Last Supper. So we know that Satan can act and take over a body.

It sure seems like there was a real encounter.
Yes, and Rev 12:9 identifies the serpent as satan but Valke2’s asking for proof from Genesis.
 
Yes, and Rev 12:9 identifies the serpent as satan but Valke2’s asking for proof from Genesis.
I know - but I just kinda thought that Jesus’ words would have more clout.

It is good to remember we must read Scripture as a whole.
 
I am not convinced.

That’s fine 😃 - it would be dreadful to say one is, when one is not. :eek: I find these separations very persuasive, whereas I don’t find the notion that (say) Gen. 3 is an historical text at all persuasive, let alone convincing. 🙂

 
Our God is a God of Love. Everything He does is to express His Love. In allowing us the opportunity to reject Him, we can then show Him love.
We’re in the Philosophy forum, so let’s put a philosophical spin on this 😉 Have you ever read Plato’s “Timaeus” ? The Demiurge, which is the god of that story, is a god of necessity. If he does something, it is because it was deemed necessary to do so. Contrast with our God, who didn’t have to do anything, but did it anyways, as an act of Love.

**That’s a very profound insight 🙂 & an awful lot rides on it; because God is free to love because He is Love, He can be the God of grace, the God Who is transcendently free to do whatever He Wills - such as freely obliging Himself by covenant. 🙂 **​

 
What good purpose did it serve at all? Why did God make it so? Why did he allow the serpent to exist in Eden? Why didn’t he tell Adam and Eve exactly what was going to happen in detail if they did not obey his command not to eat of it? Why did he not warn them of the lie Eve was going to be told from the serpent about it? What would have happened if Adam refused to eat of it even after Eve insisted he do so?
Because God wanted them to eat the fruit. ITS ALL PART OF THE PLAN!!!
 
Sure, just as a father want his kids to get on drugs. 😦
Yeah he wanted them to get sick so that he could demonstrate how loving & powerful he is. Its all part of the plan so that Jesus could come down a million years later and play superhero out to save mankind.
 
Yeah he wanted them to get sick so that he could demonstrate how loving & powerful he is. Its all part of the plan so that Jesus could come down a million years later and play superhero out to save mankind.
That makes sense to me - I am converted. :rolleyes:

This shows a shallow understanding of love and free-will.
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             Your signature - Artificial vs Natural Family Planning = both does the same thing....prevent conception.
The debate is really all about religion.

The meaning of religion is binding ourselves to God. It is about loving God and serving God. So the debate is really about obedience.
 
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning . . . he is a liar, and the father of it’ (John 8:44).

Who was Jesus referring to here - from the beginning? What happened at the beginning?

‘Satan entered into him’ (John 13:26–27) This is referring to Judas at the Last Supper. So we know that Satan can act and take over a body.

It sure seems like there was a real encounter.
My post had said there was no reference to the satan in the Garden of Eden story. As to the rest of your posts, I have no idea who Jesus was talking about. Certainly the snake doesn’t murder anyone in Genesis. And I don’t recall the snake lying in the story. Maybe he was referring to Cain. Cain both lies and murders. While I don’t believe Cain was Satan, it is at least more plausable.
 
We have been over this time and time again, citing Church documents and the Catechism, why oh why do you continue to deny the teachings of the Church? We have moved well beyond the fundamental literalism you keep pushing into understanding based on the literary forms as recommended by the Church.

This is utter nonsense - have you had any scripture classes at all? Have you read any *recognized *scholars? You should attend the classes I help teach in my diocese - we teach the truths I have state
I have read most of the comments on the Garden of Eden and the forbidden tree and I find them interesting. I think there is some nonsense here but what I would like to ask is about scripture classses and recognized scholars. I am a 72 year old man and can always learn about my faith and beliefs. Could you please tell me what takes place in scripture classes and what is taught?
Also could you tell me of some recognized scholars I may read about? It would be most helpful to me as a man of deep faith…
Thank you so very much.
samoht (thomas eby) thomaseby07@comcast.net
 
patg;3653819:
We have been over this time and time again, citing Church documents and the Catechism, why oh why do you continue to deny the teachings of the Church? We have moved well beyond the fundamental literalism you keep pushing into understanding based on the literary forms as recommended by the Church.

This is utter nonsense - have you had any scripture classes at all? Have you read any *recognized *
scholars? You should attend the classes I help teach in my diocese - we teach the truths I have state
I have read most of the comments on the Garden of Eden and the forbidden tree and I find them interesting. I think there is some nonsense here but what I would like to ask is about scripture classses and recognized scholars. I am a 72 year old man and can always learn about my faith and beliefs. Could you please tell me what takes place in scripture classes and what is taught?
Also could you tell me of some recognized scholars I may read about? It would be most helpful to me as a man of deep faith…
Thank you so very much.
samoht (thomas eby) thomaseby07@comcast.net

Yeah, I want to ask the same question, welcome to the board if you have not received one already old man! 🙂
 
patg;3653819:
We have been over this time and time again, citing Church documents and the Catechism, why oh why do you continue to deny the teachings of the Church? We have moved well beyond the fundamental literalism you keep pushing into understanding based on the literary forms as recommended by the Church.

This is utter nonsense - have you had any scripture classes at all? Have you read any *recognized *
scholars? You should attend the classes I help teach in my diocese - we teach the truths I have state
I have read most of the comments on the Garden of Eden and the forbidden tree and I find them interesting. I think there is some nonsense here but what I would like to ask is about scripture classses and recognized scholars. I am a 72 year old man and can always learn about my faith and beliefs. Could you please tell me what takes place in scripture classes and what is taught?
Also could you tell me of some recognized scholars I may read about? It would be most helpful to me as a man of deep faith…
Thank you so very much.
samoht (thomas eby) thomaseby07@comcast.net

Start with Pope Benedict’s Writings - Jesus of Nazareth is good.
 
samoht;3676604:
Yeah, I want to ask the same question, welcome to the board if you have not received one already old man! 🙂
I am not sure why you refer to me as “old man” unless you are of my age. I have been a regular member since January 2008 and posted many times. And if you knew me you would not refer to me as an old man. But be that as it may I will take it as a compliment. I mostly prefer to read what others have to say and ask questions when appropriate. I think we all should remember when posting that none of us knows the mind of God and sometime there are comments that one thinks they know what God is thinking. Just food for thought.
 
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