Why wasn't Jesus named Emmanuel?

[jcrichton]

Hi!

I think that you are confusing issues…

It was Revealed that the Virgin would conceive a Child by the Power of the Holy Spirit; this Child’s name would be Jesus (God Saves). This is the actually Name. The other Revelations are about Title’s (Names of God). Since not everything was included in Scriptures, it could well be that, as depicted in many old movies dealing with mysteries and Divine interaction, these Sacred Titles/Names were used among Israel’s Remnant (as the Way) and did not make it to the recorded material.

Consider too the Revelation in Isaiah Jesus is given many other Titles amongst them: Father, God Almighty, Prince of Peace… so Jesus, the God the Saves, has very many Names/Titles but only One Given Name to be Proclaimed publicly: Jesus…

Now, note that His Followers are not known as Jesuists (except for that Catholic Order of Priests) but they are known as Christians–previously known as ‘those of the Way.’ Yet, Christ is the Greek equivalent of Jesus (Kristos) and as the Church began to Unfold in the Greek culture, it is easily understood why those of the Ways became known as Christians.

The major discrepancy is found and sought out only by those who reject Christ and those who lack cohesion (the God of the Old Testament, Yahweh, is the I AM, which Jesus not only embraced but claimed: 'before Abraham was, I AM).

Finally, consider how Jesus Commands His Followers to go out onto the world Baptizing in the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit–God has but One Name (I know fully perplexing!); we must not allow our limitations to be placed on God’s Revelation.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[TheButler]

If God is Just and God is Righteous and God is the Judge as scripture dictates and Christianity subscribes to then a name to complete all the prophecies of Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace and Emmanuel would be something like Justus or Justin as mentioned in Colossians 4:11 where ‘Jesus is also called Justus’, be it not the same Jesus.

Justus/Justin means righteous, of justice, judge and, by association, law.

Righteousness is Wonderful.
In Justice one requires a Counsellor
Righteous Justice can only be achieved by Mighty God
Justice is Everlasting
A Justice of the Peace is a Prince of Peace and a Judge

The government will be upon his shoulders: governments are founded on Law and Justice.

God With Us therefore fulfils Emmanuel if the name Justus or Justin is used: Righteousness is with us…

 

[rose321]

Opinion only respectfully thank you for your list of Names and meanings! But does not mean

 

[rose321]

Opinion only respectfully and pondering on. Thank you for the time taken to list Names and their meaning, one is listing a few of the Names and their meanings you have listed.

Names> Meanings
Elisha - My God is salvation>>>but does not mean Elisha is God does it?
Gedaliah - Yahweh is Great >>> but does not mean Gedaliah is God does it?
Ithie -God is with Me >>>but does not mean Lthie is God does it?
Jehiel-God lives>>>> but does not mean Jehiel is God does it?
Jehu-Yahweh is he>>>> But does not mean Jehu is God does it?

When reading the bible in what is written>>>Names are very important to our Creator, when He determines such, or commands such to those He gives Names to.
What is the meaning of the Name >>Isaiah?

Names>> given also defines the mission or task given to those in whom He has chosen, or gives an answer to reassure those asking Him for an answer.

Like today even in modern times, we name our precious children after someone we admire, a Saint, or a Prophet, or a Angel of God, same maybe through out OT picked a name with God in it or a saying?

Names are very important to our Heavenly Father, defines one character, honor, Ask in My Name, the most powerful Name under the Heavens? Great Meaning.
Peace

 

[drz888]

Hope this is helpful:

Why Wasn't Jesus Named "Emmanuel" as the Angel Told Joseph That He Should Be Named? | Catholic Answers Q&A

Thank you.

 

[rose321]

Let’s recall the context of Isaiah 7:14 – Ahaz, the king of Judah is freaking out because Israel and Aram have made an alliance (in order to fend off the advances of the Assyrians) and now they’re marching on Judah (in order to conquer it and use its strength for their own aims). Isaiah is sent by God to tell King Ahaz not to freak out – that God is telling Ahaz that Syria and Israel both will fall. The problem is, Ahaz has no intent to rely on God; instead, he’s going to turn to Assyria for protection, as well as turning to the gods of Damascus (see 2 Kings 16). God tells Isaiah to have Ahaz ask Him for a sign that what He’s saying is true. Ahaz doesn’t want a sign – after all, he’s not interested in trusting in God. Nevertheless, God gives him the sign we all know: “the virgin shall be with child…”

Opinion only respectfully and pondering on one’s quote.

What is taking place?
In the Bible the>>Title of Chapter 7>>“Isaiah Reassures King Ahaz”

God sends his Great Prophet Isaiah to meet Ahaz>>God is speaking to Isaiah 7:3-9>>read it all maybe? What to tell King Ahaz??

God is speaking to Isaiah, what to tell King Ahaz >>Isaiah 7:4 “and say to him, Take heed, be quiet do not fear,and do not let your heart be faint because of theses two smoldering stumps of firebrands, because of the fierce anger of Rezin and Aram and the son of Remaliah”.

Isaiah 7:2 " When the house of David heard that Aram had allied itself with Ephraim, the heart of Ahaz and the heart of his people as the trees of the forest shake before the wind" >.2 Kings from the North are out to conquer Judah the Kingdom of King Ahaz and his people? >>>The 2 Kings from the North have plotted evil, they are out to conquer the Kingdom of Judah>>>its King Ahaz and his people?

God gives King Ahaz a >>sign<< a child will be born and he will be called Immanuel>> meaning>>God is with us> Continue reading the Chapter?

A Sign>>>> is not a miracle is it? A sign is something King Ahaz and Isaiah will witness-for reassurance

Bible Title it as>> Vs 10>>>>Isaiah gives the Sign of Immanuel

Isaiah 7: 14 " Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look">>>>Look? Tells King Ahaz what to look for>.his sign given? King Ahaz will witness it? A sign is not a miracle is it?
Should we keep reading the whole of>>> Isaiah chapter 7 and continue reading >>>Chapter 8 also and on on???

As written as Isaiah not taught us how to read Scripture>>Line upon line, line upon line, pretext upon pretext line upon line?

Isaiah 7:16 “For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good the land before whose two Kings you are in dread will be deserted”>>>> Both Kings die? The sign given to King Ahaz to >>look for?>>>>> before the child knows<<< and>>>Both Kings died>>>>One was killed the other died of illness?

Would King Ahaz, his Kingdom, his people were not conquered by the>> 2 Kings of the North and would King Ahaz>>> say " God is with us" ?

Peace just pondering, questioning and seeking out truths of understanding His Spoken Word.

 

[rose321]

Respectfully having questions, thus pondering when one quotes Isaiah Chapter 8:10 confuses me greatly with what is taking place also in Isaiah chapter 7!

Who is the woman with child in Chapter 7 >>that King Ahaz and Isaiah are given a sign to look for?
Would they know who this woman is also maybe who will be with child?

Continue reading the whole Chapter 7 what is all taking place first in this chapter is important to stay in context ?>Because God gives them a >> sign

Isaiah 7:14:16 " Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel. He shall eat curds and honey by the time he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good the land before whose two Kings you are in dread will be deserted"

Which further leads me to great confusing making your point respectfully>>the verse one refers to is>reads as>Isaiah 8:10" “Take counsel together, but it shall be brought to naught: speak a word, but it will not stand, for God is with us”

Lord Himself will give you a Sign?

Now what follows after Isaiah Chapter 7 > continues Isaiah Chapter 8 continues on in all that is taking place still in Isaiah Chapter 7, correct?

Title in the Bible >Isaiah Chapter 8 reads

“Isaiah’s Son a Sign of the Assyrian Invasion”<<

Isaiah 8:1-4 " Then the Lord said to me, Take a large tablet and write on it in common characters, " Belonging to Maher-shalal-hash-baz and have it attested for me by reliable witnesses, the priest Uriah and Zechariah son of Jeberechiah. And I went to the prophetess, and she conceived and bore a son. Then the Lord said to me, Name him Maher-shalal-hash-baz, for before the child knows how to call " My Father" " Mother", the wealth of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria will be carried away by the King of Assyria" unquote>>speaking of the 2 Kings >.King Ahaz was was in dread of?

Isaiah Chapter 7 right in the >1st Chapter of Isaiah 8, what takes place>Isaiah wife who was a prophetess has a child>A Son? What does God tell Isaiah to call him?> Maher-shalal-hash-baz>>means what?

Confused when you use then Isaiah 8:10 when discussing the Name meaning of Immauel sorry?

Respectfully opinion only and confused when using Mat 1:23 with Isaiah 7:14 then going to Isaiah 8:10 for ones explanation on the Name Immmauel.

King Ahaz and great Prophet Isaiah praising, giving thanks maybe, >>God is with Us?

Peace

 

[Autumn-Smoke]

Also, Jesus’ name was to be the same name as Joshua’s in the Old Testament. Joshua pre-figured Christ: as Joshua led the people into the promised land, so Jesus leads us into heaven.

Meaning, origin and history of the name Joshua - Behind the Name

 

[rose321]

Also, Jesus’ name was to be the same name as Joshua’s in the Old Testament. Joshua pre-figured Christ: as Joshua led the people into the promised land, so Jesus leads us into heaven.

Opinion only respectfully nicely said our Heavenly Father has chosen and sent many to us. God great plan of Salvation, has been slowly moving us along since the beginning of time. For me any way it is important to stay in context, read line upon line, pretext upon pretext God tells His Great Prophet Isaiah he will give King Ahaz a sign and instructions what to look for?

Isaiah Chapter 8 titled " Isaiah’s Son a Sign of the Assyrian Invasion.
Right after Chapter 7 in the very first Chapter 8 of Isaiah, >> Isaiah wife a Prophets conceived and bore a Son. Must be very important Son>>>>for God names >>Isaiah Son>>Maher-shalal-hash-baz and God commands Isaiah to write it a large tablet, and have it attested for God by priest Uriah and Zechariah>>witnesses? Is Isaiah Son the Sign? A Sign given by God to Isaiah and King Ahaz?
Did King Ahaz and Isaiah know who this woman was? Had to know the woman, for God gives a Sign, instructions about this Son when he is born, what to look for? Before he knows good or evil etc and before the child knows to call " Father or Mother>>what next will take place? Interesting. Peace

 

[Gorgias]

A Sign is not a miracle is it? A sign is something King Ahaz and Isaiah will witness-for reassurance

A sign is not a miracle.

And, since Ahaz didn’t even want the reassurance of a sign that he could witness, God gives a sign that he won’t witness. In a way, it’s the Divine Providence at work: even though this guy over here isn’t gonna pay attention to God, nevertheless God gives reassurance to his people who will listen.

Would King Ahaz, his Kingdom, his people were not conquered by the 2 Kings of the North

No, they weren’t conquered by the two kings of the north – they were conquered by the king to whom Ahaz fled (the one in whose trust he placed himself and his nation, rather than placing it in God).

would King Ahaz say " God is with us" ?

This is where looking at the text closely, in multiple languages, gets interesting. The Hebrew wouldn’t necessarily restrict itself to either “Ahaz says…” or “she [the mother] says…”. Matthew takes it and turns it into “they say…”.

 

[TheButler]

A sign is not a miracle.

I agree. The first ‘sign’ is the bow in the heavens in Genesis 9. Jesus also mentions ‘upwards’ for signs:
Luke 21 25
And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars

 

[rose321]

And, since Ahaz didn’t even want the reassurance of a sign that he could witness, God gives a sign that he won’t witness. In a way, it’s the Divine Providence at work: even though this guy over here isn’t gonna pay attention to God, nevertheless God gives reassurance to his people who will listen.

And Isaiah and Ahaz listening>God speaks they listen and the sign given comes to pass? King Ahaz Kingdom is not conquered by the 2 Northern Kings is it? What happens to the 2 Northern Kings?

Respectfully one does know this is taking place 800 years more or less before Jesus is born, is King Ahaz going to wait around for this sign to come to pass and why does God give instructions on what to look for to King Ahaz and King Isaiah>by giving them a sign to look for, when this child is born? Bible Title>>Isaiah Reassures King Ahaz

Opinion only respectfully, King Ahaz goes to the Greatest Prophet of God for a reason and trembling, looking for an answer what is going to happen to His Kingdom, will this happen? What should I do ask God for me Isaiah? What does Isaiah reply to King Ahaz Isaiah 10-23.

Would King Ahaz and Prophet Isaiah would have to know this woman with child and God gives them instructions, what to look for when this child is born>> the signs to look for?

Isaiah 8 Titles " Isaiah’s Son a Sign of the Assyrian Invasion"
Isaiah wife a prophetess conceived bore a Son and God Names him?

Isaiah 8:3 " And I went to the prophetess and she conceived and bore a son, Then the Lord said to me, Name him Maher-shalal-hash-baz, before the child knows how to call " Father" or " Mother", the wealth of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria will be carried away by the King of Assyria"…

Who is I and who is me in that verse isaiah 8:3? All is taking place and Isaiah is listening and obeying the instructions God is speaking to Isaiah His Prophet, is he not?

Continue reading Isaiah 8: 11-15

Must be very important also, God commands Isaiah to write it on a huge tablet Isaiah son Name and bring it to be attested by reliable witnesses priest Uriah and Zechariah ??

Respectfully opinion giving and letting his Spoken Word give it. Peace

 

[rose321]

Respectfully opinion only. Agree signs are not miracles and not about I am right or your wrong or your right and I am wrong, just about reading what it says in context, line upon line. And when reading NT quotes heavily from OT, when anyone quotes from another, should be word for word, no changes within what we are quoting should it? Peace thank you for your kind replies and our discussion. Peace.

I agree. The first ‘sign’ is the bow in the heavens in Genesis 9. Jesus also mentions ‘upwards’ for signs:

Luke 21 25

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars

 

[Gorgias]

And Isaiah and Ahaz listening God speaks they listen and the sign given comes to pass?

Not in their lifetime. That’s the whole point: King Ahaz doesn’t want a sign that he can see.

King Ahaz Kingdom is not conquered by the 2 Northern Kings is it? What happens to the 2 Northern Kings?

Ahaz turns to Assyria for help. Assyria defeats Ahaz’s enemies. Ahaz adds insult to injury by setting up idols to Assyria’s gods in Jerusalem. Later, Assyria falls as a world power, and Babylon rises. Babylon besieges Judah and takes away its inhabitants in exile. The theological lesson being taught here is that a lack of trust in God leads to a false trust in idols, and this false trust leads to disaster.

Respectfully one does know this is taking place 800 years more or less before Jesus is born, is King Ahaz going to wait around for this sign to come to pass and why does God give instructions on what to look for to King Ahaz and King Isaiah

It’s a sign from God, but not a sign for Ahaz, who actively refuses to ask for a sign. Ahaz doesn’t “wait around for this sign to come to pass”. Instead, he turns to Assyria and asks them for help.

(BTW… Isaiah isn’t a king. He’s a prophet.)

King Ahaz goes to the Greatest Prophet of God for a reason and trembling, looking for an answer what is going to happen to His Kingdom

No. Ahaz doesn’t go to Isaiah. He’s afraid, but he does not go to God or His prophet for help. Rather, God sends Isaiah to Ahaz.

Would King Ahaz and Prophet Isaiah would have to know this woman with child and God gives them instructions, what to look for when this child is born the signs to look for?

No. And, in any case, Ahaz isn’t looking for a fulfillment of the sign. Instead, he trusts in foreign powers and their foreign idols.

Isaiah 8 Titles " Isaiah’s Son a Sign of the Assyrian Invasion"

With all due respect, I think you should pay less attention to the titles. “Chapter and verse” didn’t exist before the 13th century A.D.! Even more so, the “titles” were not part of the Scripture itself. Later editors added them to it.

Isaiah wife a prophetess conceived bore a Son and God Names him?

It doesn’t say that this is Isaiah’s wife, does it?

Who is I and who is me in that verse isaiah 8:3?

Isaiah. He’s reporting that he did what God asked him to do.

All is taking place and Isaiah is listening and obeying the instructions God is speaking to Isaiah His Prophet, is he not?

Right. New action is taking place here.

Must be very important also, God commands Isaiah to write it on a huge tablet Isaiah son Name and bring it to be attested by reliable witnesses priest Uriah and Zechariah ??

It’s a prophetic action. The symbolic name here is “quick spoils, speedy plunder.” God is saying “before the time that the child is born and learns to speak, Aram and Ephraim will have been destroyed.”

 

[Gorgias]

(Incidentally, there’s something really subtle going on here, as well: both God and Ahaz are looking at the same events and are interpreting them quite differently. Ahaz sees that Assyria defeats his enemies and, although God predicted in advance that it would happen, Ahaz gives the credit to Assyria for their victory. Therefore, Ahaz praises the gods of Assyria rather than his own God, for the good fortune Judah has experienced. (I don’t have to remind you that this ends badly for them, right…? )

 

[Gorgias]

when anyone quotes from another, should be word for word, no changes within what we are quoting should it?

I would say no, for a couple of reasons:

• This reference back to the prophecy might also involve translation from a source language into a target language, and therefore, the expression in one language might be different in another one.
• The writer who is looking back at the original prophecy is himself interpreting it, so we’re seeing his interpretation rather than a simple word-for-word quotation.
• The writer doing the copying – in Scripture! – is himself an inspired author, and therefore, if he’s inspired to write “they” instead of “you” or “she”, then we should honor that inspiration.

 

[rose321]

Opinion only respectfully toward asking this question, because I am learning from you and you seem to more highly educated in such matters, then I. I just want to learn and seek out all truths to attain Knowledge and Understanding of His Spoken Word.

In the NT one has chosen to quote from OT >>a Prophet, those choosen in whom God fills with >>HIS Holy Spirit>>> and replaces words or stating they are quoting from such and such…like in NT>>As it is written> > before quoting from OT and changes some words, does not end up meaning the same, then what?

Could this be misleading or no fault of their own by the author, were all human? Why quote then in the first place, if one does not quote directly word for word, which then does give a different message, sorry confused as you can read by my reply.

I realize translating is a very, very long, hard, difficult task to do, into many languages and doing so in ancient times by hand, errors are made, or it looks like an “e” but it is an “o” can change the whole word and meaning of a word.

But if the author makes a point to let us be aware they are quoting, or stating As it is written>.means they are quoting from, then why not quote it word for word, why do they change words which then changes the whole meaning?

Your very kind and thank you if you take the time to inform me further in such understanding. Respectfully

 

[Gorgias]

I just want to learn and seek out all truths to attain Knowledge and Understanding of His Spoken Word.

Yep. It’s all good!

In the NT one has chosen to quote from OT a Prophet, those choosen in whom God fills with HIS Holy Spirit and replaces words or stating they are quoting from such and such

Yet, it’s his interpretation of the prophecy which, if it’s in Scripture, is likewise inspired by God, right? It’s not that the Gospel writer has “gotten it wrong”, or “made a human mistake” – it’s that, very naturally, prophecies can take on a range of interpretations, and this is the one that the Gospel writer is bringing to our attention.

Why quote then in the first place, if one does not quote directly word for word, which then does give a different message

Because the inspired writer wants to demonstrate that the prophecy is fulfilled in the events of his time.

A similar thing happens in the prophecy about John. Is it a voice crying out in the desert “make straight…”, or is it a voice crying out “in the desert, make straight…”? Prophecy is highly interpretative.

I realize translating is a very, very long, hard, difficult task to do, into many languages and doing so in ancient times by hand, errors are made, or it looks like an “e” but it is an “o” can change the whole word and meaning of a word.

In this case, no. In the Hebrew version of Isaiah, the verb “will call” doesn’t indicate whether it’s “you will call” or “she will call”, so there’s already ambiguity there. The Greek translator of Isaiah translates it as if it were “she will call”. Matthew interprets it as “they will call”. It’s a matter of interpretation, not error.

But if the author makes a point to let us be aware they are quoting, or stating As it is written.means they are quoting from, then why not quote it word for word, why do they change words which then changes the whole meaning?

Because he’s telling you his interpretation of the prophecy. It doesn’t “change the whole meaning”, I don’t think.

 

[rose321]

Respectfully, learned from you today, thank you so much for taking the time to do so!!! Enjoy your day! Peace

 

[po18guy]

As I have been taught, Yeshua/Jesus is His proper name - which defines Who wand What He is. Emmanuel is a type, i.e. Savior or Anointed, and so, is “God with us.”