Why we need a TLM in every parish!

[SenorSalsa]

Really…what about the El Salvadorians…I have a few of them that were working for me…should we exclude them…make it Mexican only? What about the Argentinians or Brazilians?

well, technically, Brazilians speak Portuguese, but I see your point.

But as I said before, and no I was not being satiric, there are many in my state and others who dont know English. And they tend to not be the smartest, Even thier Spanish isnt highly intelectual. Don’t get me wrong they are great people, but they arent your University educated Doctors and Lawyers. They are day laborers and farmhands. And they arent just a small part. I have seen signs in stores further south in my state that say “yes we speak english”

And by the way, our Spanish speaking congregation gives at a much, much higher rate than the english side. Even though

Its not that i refuse to add a EF Mass, I would probably go at least once if the closest parish was almost an hour away with an 8 AM start time. But to take away, in many cases, the only Spanish Mass is not the way to implement it. Take away an English Mass, my Church, and many others would still have 3-5 other OF Masses to go to.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Upon reflection, it occurs to me that a TLM in each parish would create the same issue that the Spanish Masses do…a sub-parish within a parish.

Good or Bad, Right or Wrong, Fair or Unfair, that is the fact of the matter. In most parishes, the Spanish Mass crowd functions within itself, seperate from the rest of the parish.

From what I read here, there is no doubt in my mind that the same holds true with the TLM groups. Their professed “my Mass is better than your Mass” attitudes would only serve to further the “seperate but equal” sub parish-within-a-parish situation.

That’s painting with a pretty broad brush, don’t you think? I will certainly acknowledge that there are “my Mass is better than your Mass” folks who attend the EF…but I’ve also met more than a few of those folks who attend the OF.

At the parish I grew up in we had those folks who argued that the 5pm Mass was better than the 11 am Mass!

 

[invocation]

i am certain that when there is a large population of native latin speakers, the use of latin in the mass will pick right up. until then, comparing the use of latin to spanish, portuguese and polish language masses (just to name the ones that i know we have near me) just doesn’t fly.

that said, there are also two parishes at least within easy driving distance of me that offer the mass in latin. and more power to them if they have a priest and a congregation for it.

in the peace of christ.

 

[ethelzguy]

That’s painting with a pretty broad brush, don’t you think? I will certainly acknowledge that there are “my Mass is better than your Mass” folks who attend the EF…but I’ve also met more than a few of those folks who attend the OF.

At the parish I grew up in we had those folks who argued that the 5pm Mass was better than the 11 am Mass!

That’s probably because the 5pm Mass uses guitars instead of the organ…

OK, JUST KIDDING

 

[Fitswimmer]

That’s probably because the 5pm Mass uses guitars instead of the organ…

OK, JUST KIDDING

I have no doubt that had something to do with it.

Everyone has their “favorite” Mass, whether it’s EF or OF, liberal or conservative. We don’t need everyone to love our favorite mass, we just would rather that people don’t denigrate us or the mass we choose to attend.

 

[ethelzguy]

I have no doubt that had something to do with it.

Everyone has their “favorite” Mass, whether it’s EF or OF, liberal or conservative. We don’t need everyone to love our favorite mass, we just would rather that people don’t denigrate us or the mass we choose to attend.

On a more serious note, just ponder for a moment, dropping the Spanish Masses in favor of Latin.

That would most certainly put one in hoardes more parishes, and would likely better integrate the Mexicans, et al, into our parish life.

 

[invocation]

On a more serious note, just ponder for a moment, dropping the Spanish Masses in favor of Latin.

That would most certainly put one in hoardes more parishes, and would likely better integrate the Mexicans, et al, into our parish life.

1. this is a short sighted policy that could easily find itself ironically reversed in the not so distant future. it is already the case in many places (north carolina where i grew up for instance), and will probably be the case nationwide within our lifetimes, that the number of spanish speaking catholics will outnumber the speakers of other languages…at which point, if there was only going to be one vernacular language offered in the parish, it would certainly be that of the majority spanish-speaking parishoners.
2. in my experience, it is not the spanish-speakers within the parish that need to be integrated. the spanish speakers often are a well integrated and vibrant community, interconnected with one another and having shared lives. i wish i could say that of the anglophone parishoners, but it would mostly be a lie.

 

[Fitswimmer]

On a more serious note, just ponder for a moment, dropping the Spanish Masses in favor of Latin.

That would most certainly put one in hoardes more parishes, and would likely better integrate the Mexicans, et al, into our parish life.

Or it would drive them down the road to the Protestant church that is holding services in Spanish…

 

[Spiller]

1. So that it enriches the OF.
2. So that everyone has the opportunity to enjoy the Mass in Latin.
3. So that these debates end once and for all.

Why we don’t need a TLM in every parish.

???

1.) The EF is not enriched by the OF. Perhaps the reserve is true, but your comment is not.

2.) Many parishes are close to one another. If someone has to travel a bit for their beloved EF, then that should be a small sacrifice.

3.) LOL!! Never happen.
**
Why we don’t need a TLM in every parish?**

1.) Insufficient demand.

2.) Insufficient resources.

3.)The negative community it often attracts.

 

[Fitswimmer]

1.) The EF is not enriched by the OF. Perhaps the reserve is true, but your comment is not.

2.) Many parishes are close to one another. If someone has to travel a bit for their beloved EF, then that should be a small sacrifice.

3.) LOL!! Never happen.
**
Why we don’t need a TLM in every parish?**

1.) Insufficient demand.

2.) Insufficient resources.

3.)The negative community it often attracts.

I could make the same claim about the OF-I’ve seen plenty of negativity there. I don’t know why it is a requirement in every post that we mention how terrible the people who go to the EF are.

 

[Spiller]

On a more serious note, just ponder for a moment, dropping the Spanish Masses in favor of Latin.

Why the bigotry? You suggest we can do-away with Masses in Spanish because what, they only service Spanish-speaking people? That’s down in the gutter bigotry. Very bad form.

That would most certainly put one in hoardes more parishes, and would likely better integrate the Mexicans, et al, into our parish life.

That’s deeply ignorant. As someone else suggested the Spanish-speaking people would likely leave over time. In any event just how would this better integrate them into our parish life? From my considerable experience, those who attend the EF are often poorly integrated into their own parishes to begin with.

Your remarks are reprehensible.

 

[Spiller]

Upon reflection, it occurs to me that a TLM in each parish would create the same issue that the Spanish Masses do…a sub-parish within a parish.

Perhaps, but for totally different reasons. For the Hispanics due to language and perhaps culture. To the EFers due largely to a lack of wanting to more fully participate in parish life.

Good or Bad, Right or Wrong, Fair or Unfair, that is the fact of the matter. In most parishes, the Spanish Mass crowd functions within itself, seperate from the rest of the parish.

Not around here (California)

From what I read here, there is no doubt in my mind that the same holds true with the TLM groups. Their professed “my Mass is better than your Mass” attitudes would only serve to further the “seperate but equal” sub parish-within-a-parish situation.

Probably quite true.

 

[ethelzguy]

Or it would drive them down the road to the Protestant church that is holding services in Spanish…

OH, so it IS ok to have Mass in the language that is convienient for the local congregation.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[He_Man]

Upon reflection, it occurs to me that a TLM in each parish would create the same issue that the Spanish Masses do…a sub-parish within a parish.

Good or Bad, Right or Wrong, Fair or Unfair, that is the fact of the matter. In most parishes, the Spanish Mass crowd functions within itself, seperate from the rest of the parish.

From what I read here, there is no doubt in my mind that the same holds true with the TLM groups. Their professed “my Mass is better than your Mass” attitudes would only serve to further the “seperate but equal” sub parish-within-a-parish situation.

If thet Church had stuck to its original intent and left Latin as the rule, it wouldn’t matter who attended what Mass.

Latin was a unifying force that allowed people of all backgrounds to celebrate together. They may not be able to converse after Mass well, but they could celebrate with one another.

If we had a single language for these Masses, as we did for many many centuries, there would be no need for Spanish masses, English masses, etc.

 

[He_Man]

1. this is a short sighted policy that could easily find itself ironically reversed in the not so distant future. it is already the case in many places (north carolina where i grew up for instance), and will probably be the case nationwide within our lifetimes, that the number of spanish speaking catholics will outnumber the speakers of other languages…at which point, if there was only going to be one vernacular language offered in the parish, it would certainly be that of the majority spanish-speaking parishoners.
2. in my experience, it is not the spanish-speakers within the parish that need to be integrated. the spanish speakers often are a well integrated and vibrant community, interconnected with one another and having shared lives. i wish i could say that of the anglophone parishoners, but it would mostly be a lie.

Most anglophone parishioners I know are very well immersed in American culture.

What with this being America and all…

 

[ethelzguy]

Why the bigotry? You suggest we can do-away with Masses in Spanish because what, they only service Spanish-speaking people? That’s down in the gutter bigotry. Very bad form.

Nah, what bigotry? My ancestors (and probably yours as well) learned to speak English when they came here from Europe or wherever. It’s modern-day politically-correctism that says we have to provide spanish to the spanish-speaking immigrants. If learning English was good enough for your folks and mine, why not theirs? There were many “ethnic” Catholic Churches in the 1900’s to 1950’s or so to accomodate some, but after a generation or two, they all melded into our Churches, as it should be

That’s deeply ignorant. As someone else suggested the Spanish-speaking people would likely leave over time. In any event just how would this better integrate them into our parish life? From my considerable experience, those who attend the EF are often poorly integrated into their own parishes to begin with.

Your remarks are reprehensible.

But if Average Joe Catholic comes here and says “If the Church goes back to Latin, I’ll leave…” They get jumped on and told all kinds of horrible things. Why is there a different set of rules for the spanish-speaking that come here?

My suggestion would also answer the “traveler” issue and the “universal Church language” issue.

If each parish had Mass in the vernacular (whatever it was in that country or land) AND Latin, we’d have the best of both worlds. The locals would have Mass in their native tongue, and travellers would have Mass in the “universal language” of the Church, AND the TLM crowd would have their cake and eat it too.

What’s reprehensible about that? The Church doesn’t bow to politcal correctness. I have a boatload of kids and grandkids to prove it

 

[Fitswimmer]

I can’t believe the judgementalism on this thread!!

I have been a part of 2 vibrant OF communities in my life and encountered all kinds of people at both of them.

I’m currently a part of a vibrant EF community and there are all kinds of people there too.

To make such blanket statements about people who attend the EF and OF and judge them as being either irreverent or snobbish really disturbs me.

I’m not even touching the racism…that’s a whole other thing…

 

[Fitswimmer]

OH, so it IS ok to have Mass in the language that is convienient for the local congregation.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I have no problem with the Spanish masses-we had one at the Parish I grew up in years before they were “popular”.

But, as I said-I find more diversity of cultures at my EF chapel than I do at the OF parishes I attend. I have no idea if the Latin has anything to do with it-it’s just an observation.

 

[Spiller]

OH, so it IS ok to have Mass in the language that is convienient for the local congregation.

Thanks for clearing that up.

“Convenient?” Some of those people you are talking about only speak Spanish. I know of no one who speaks Latin as their primary language.

 

[PrayforMallory]

This discussion is so off-topic,.

What did you guys wanna do? Derail it by bringing up Mexican communities and Spanish Masses? Who said he wanted those to not be available?

Suddenly…The EF debate has become one about English supremacy…