Why wives?

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She’s from a Catholic girls’ school! I don’t know where she got the same sex issues from…school don’t mention stuff like that. Not even the non catholic ones. She did say she felt sorry for them and it’s unfair for us to say no to them getting married. But I’m actually not too worried about that. Should I be? She’s 11…and does look things at a surface level. I only ‘got’ the teachings on marriage quite recently…sadly…

**My dad isn’t really a greeeaaat father. He does try sometimes…but really…it’s sad when my sister wears a top and my dad freaks out and tells her that her body isn’t meant for that, that she needs to wear baggier clothing so her hourglass figure won’t be too obvious. :eek: **She’s definitely self conscious of her clothes thanks to him. She does make comments like how she wants a smaller bust size…like me (LOL because it sounds like an insult towards me)

And to your last sentence…yup…my dad is one of those people that tells people to just “listen to God, have child like faith, don’t question anything”. I roughly understand him, but then again, he missed out on a lot of opportunities to teach us stuff :confused: I do feel annoyed bc it always has been up to me to teach her stuff. About religion, school, etc. I’m trying to figure things out for myself!
:eek:

My sister was also big on top early on, and she used to wear HUGE tops. I’m afraid that our grandma–who is actually a great person–told sis at the time that she looked like a pregnant teenager. But that’s the conundrum–dress too big, and you’ll look fat and/or pregnant–and pregnant is not a great look for an 11-year-old.

You might want to help your sister out with some online research for good solutions to achieve a more “balanced” look. There should be a lot of great resources.

wardrobe911.com/how-to-wear-cardigans-for-the-big-busted/
 
I can’t imagine that it would be possible for an 11-year old girl to understand the dynamic between married couples or what it means to “submit”. What is concerning though, is that she seems to be under the impression that, as a girl, she should listen to boys outside of the context of marriage (unless she meant “boy” as a stand in for “husband”). I would explain to her that this is not what the passage means, that it specifically refers to married couples and that married people have a special relationship where the husband is also called to sacrifice.** I would also be very clear that she does not have to listen to any of her peers who are boys.**
Right.
 
I can’t imagine that it would be possible for an 11-year old girl to understand the dynamic between married couples or what it means to “submit”. What is concerning though, is that she seems to be under the impression that, as a girl, she should listen to boys outside of the context of marriage (unless she meant “boy” as a stand in for “husband”). I would explain to her that this is not what the passage means, that it specifically refers to married couples and that married people have a special relationship where the husband is also called to sacrifice. I would also be very clear that she does not have to listen to any of her peers who are boys.
No, I don’t think she believes that. I did clarify that with her, but she basically replied “but still” :o

I think basically it’s the “a loving master to a slave is still a master”…not that the husband is a master…but the ‘head’ and the wife being the heart (what does that even mean lol, it always sounds like something someone says to make the wife feel important…like “here’s a participation trophy”? Anyway i digress). I can kind of relate to her, so I can feel the frustration radiating off her. I didn’t know she would be so affected…she’s so little!
 
:eek:

My sister was also big on top early on, and she used to wear HUGE tops. I’m afraid that our grandma–who is actually a great person–told sis at the time that she looked like a pregnant teenager. But that’s the conundrum–dress too big, and you’ll look fat and/or pregnant–and pregnant is not a great look for an 11-year-old.

You might want to help your sister out with some online research for good solutions to achieve a more “balanced” look. There should be a lot of great resources.

wardrobe911.com/how-to-wear-cardigans-for-the-big-busted/
Yup…which is why sometimes I’m glad I have no curves. (Then reality settles in) 🙂

And thanks, will look into that!
 
No, I don’t think she believes that. I did clarify that with her, but she basically replied “but still” :o

I think basically it’s the “a loving master to a slave is still a master”…not that the husband is a master…but the ‘head’ and the wife being the heart (what does that even mean lol, it always sounds like something someone says to make the wife feel important…like “here’s a participation trophy”? Anyway i digress). I can kind of relate to her, so I can feel the frustration radiating off her. I didn’t know she would be so affected…she’s so little!
Oh dear, she’s already buying into the “God is big old meanie” thing here, whether she knows it or not. She’s right on the edge of believing or not believing in the goodness and wisdom of God.

The whole “head and heart” thing isn’t very convincing because it’s an oversimplification that doesn’t always apply. Sure, there are women who are more the heart of the home than the decision maker. But applying that to all wives turns us into mindless beings who can only feel not think, doesn’t it? People who use this example are well-meaning but it doesn’t match reality, and so it doesn’t convince nor assuage the feeling that women are being taken advantage of, does it?

This is NOT about power and who has it. Period. It’s about each one serving the other in love. Men and women both do so within marriage, but each in the way best suited to their sex. Your sister feels this difference when she declares she doesn’t want to be bossed around by boys. Of course, she doesn’t. She doesn’t want that–she wants to loved and appreciated, yes?

Love is the key here. As Jesus was subject to his Father in love, wives are subject to their husbands–in love. Jesus did the Father’s will in love, not from servile fear. And men are subject to the judgment of God for how they treat their wives and children, for they are expected to love them as Christ loved his Church–by laying down his life for them.

There’s no “still” about it. Any woman who goes into marriage with a chip on her shoulder, already deciding that no man is going to have authority over her, is headed for divorce because she’s already resentful of him for just being a man. It’s a bad attitude. One that needs correcting now, not when you sister starts dating and then is considering marriage.
 
I have been married for 18 years.Why do we focus so much on the obeying the husband part? My poor husband is commanded to love me as God loves me.Methinks he has the difficult part.
 
I have been married for 18 years.Why do we focus so much on the obeying the husband part? My poor husband is commanded to love me as God loves me.Methinks he has the difficult part.
Indeed! I pray daily for my dh that he will have the grace to love me as God loves me–he sure needs it, especially some days. 😊 I have the easy part in this whole thing. 😉
 
Kids hate hearing this, but, she’ll understand when she’s older. At 11, she’s just beginning to think boys might be a little more interesting than she realized, but she’s still years away from understanding complex romantic and sexual dynamics between the sexes or what it means to really form a new family with another person.

No, she doesn’t have to listen to boys per her religion and common sense. She can put off worrying about her husband’s leadership position for at least another 10-15 years. By then, she’ll feel differently.
 
No, I don’t think she believes that. I did clarify that with her, but she basically replied “but still” :o

I think basically it’s the “a loving master to a slave is still a master”…not that the husband is a master…but the ‘head’ and the wife being the heart (what does that even mean lol, it always sounds like something someone says to make the wife feel important…like “here’s a participation trophy”? Anyway i digress). I can kind of relate to her, so I can feel the frustration radiating off her. I didn’t know she would be so affected…she’s so little!
I think the main thing for her to be given to understand is that this dynamic is in place every time you have a committee of two or even when a larger group has to make a decision. In the end, someone has to decide. No matter who you are, you have to submit to someone. When someone has to submit to you, you are not in a place to “lord it over them.” You are in a place of responsibility. If anyone ought to be in the position to say, “hey, who elected me for that?!?” it is probably the men.

The thing to impress upon her is that for Christians “the dynamic” is in Mark 10:35-25

*Then James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came to him and said to him, “Teacher, we want you to do for us whatever we ask of you.” He replied, “What do you wish [me] to do for you?” They answered him, “Grant that in your glory we may sit one at your right and the other at your left.” Jesus said to them, “You do not know what you are asking. Can you drink the cup that I drink or be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?” They said to him, “We can.” Jesus said to them, “The cup that I drink, you will drink, and with the baptism with which I am baptized, you will be baptized; but to sit at my right or at my left is not mine to give but is for those for whom it has been prepared.” When the ten heard this, they became indignant at James and John.

Jesus summoned them and said to them,p “You know that those who are recognized as rulers over the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones make their authority over them felt. But it shall not be so among you. Rather, whoever wishes to be great among you will be your servant; whoever wishes to be first among you will be the slave of all. For the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many.” *

St. John is identified as the “beloved disciple” in this passage:
When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son.” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home. John 19:26-27

Other than John, who was given a particular role from his place risking his life at the foot of the Cross, every other one of the Twelve–every one of those looking for a place to be important–was martyred. Every one of them endured a cruel death because of the place of “leadership” they had accepted.

Every Christian has to practice submission. Even the Christian given a place of authority has to submit to the demands of that position of authority. The higher one goes, the more one will be expected to make an account of their stewardship of the responsibility he or she received.

I do not know why the husband was given the position of leadership in a Christian home. Perhaps it is because the male who acts according to the natural order will be dominating. Christ intends that there be no domination in a Christian home, so there is a wisdom in giving the male the place that will elevate the natural tendency to dominate into a supernatural and Christlike leadership of self-sacrificial service.

Whatever the case, Christian leadership is nothing to resent. It is a position to be accepted with a certain amount of trepidation. A woman ought to choose her husband as someone who will rule their domestic church together as a king and queen who both submit themselves to Christ as the ultimate Emperor of their lives. If you read Ephesians 5, that is clearly what is meant by the submission of a Christian wife to her husband.

[This is what I mean by being able to offer an account:

*Then Peter said, “Lord, is this parable meant for us or for everyone?” And the Lord replied, “Who, then, is the faithful and prudent steward whom the master will put in charge of his servants to distribute [the] food allowance at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master on arrival finds doing so. Truly, I say to you, he will put him in charge of all his property.

But if that servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’* and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, to eat and drink and get drunk, then that servant’s master will come on an unexpected day and at an unknown hour and will punish him severely and assign him a place with the unfaithful…Much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more. Luke 12:41-46, 48b]
 
I think basically it’s the “a loving master to a slave is still a master”…not that the husband is a master…but the ‘head’ and the wife being the heart (what does that even mean lol, it always sounds like something someone says to make the wife feel important…like “here’s a participation trophy”? Anyway i digress). I can kind of relate to her, so I can feel the frustration radiating off her. I didn’t know she would be so affected…she’s so little!
The metaphor I’ve heard and could better relate to is that if the husband is the head, the wife is the neck… as in the neck enables the head to turn 😉
 
Someone touched on how early young girls are sexualised?

I went into a local bog hotel on business when the Irish Dancing championships were on and the way the girls, under 10 m were dressed and groomed and made up and hairstyles…

I think you have the same there with beauty pageants?
 
For girls this age it is hard to understand the concept.

When I asked one of our dd’s if she wanted to join cheerleading.she said as she did not want to cheer a bunch of boys playing a sport --with the reasonong that there were no boy cheerleaders when she played a sport.

She was coming from a place of fairness though. That’s what I think the op’s sister is thinking. To try and explain how marriage works at this age would be difficult. The best way is for girls and boys to learn about marriage is to witness daily how loving parents work together or the good of the family.
 
For girls this age it is hard to understand the concept.

When I asked one of our dd’s if she wanted to join cheerleading.she said as she did not want to cheer a bunch of boys playing a sport --with the reasonong that there were no boy cheerleaders when she played a sport.

She was coming from a place of fairness though. That’s what I think the op’s sister is thinking. To try and explain how marriage works at this age would be difficult. The best way is for girls and boys to learn about marriage is to witness daily how loving parents work together or the good of the family.
But we always had this kind of boy/girl NOT FAIR thing going on. “He has a better bicycle than I have NOT FAIR! " He gets to play out later…NOT FAIR”.

Maybe just the getting used to the fact that there IS a difference? Without the deeper reality?
 
For girls this age it is hard to understand the concept.

When I asked one of our dd’s if she wanted to join cheerleading.she said as she did not want to cheer a bunch of boys playing a sport --with the reasonong that there were no boy cheerleaders when she played a sport.

She was coming from a place of fairness though. That’s what I think the op’s sister is thinking. To try and explain how marriage works at this age would be difficult. The best way is for girls and boys to learn about marriage is to witness daily how loving parents work together or the good of the family.
Pretty hard to do so when my mother is dead :confused:

And yeah, my sis is just looking at it from that pov. I mean, she is raised up to believe that you have to earn the right to lead (be smart in ___ to teach ____, you have to know ____ to do ___). Even people like me find it hard to accept when someone basically tells you that you have to submit because you have a vagina :o
 
Someone touched on how early young girls are sexualised?

I went into a local bog hotel on business when the Irish Dancing championships were on and the way the girls, under 10 m were dressed and groomed and made up and hairstyles…

I think you have the same there with beauty pageants?
I don’t know if it’s a thing here…there are modeling competitions and usually the majority race are scouted (or those with white features), so it’s based on the face? And they are usually teenagers and older

Surprisingly, I don’t feel that young girls are sexualized…until they reach puberty? I could be living in my own bubble though
 
Pretty hard to do so when my mother is dead :confused:

And yeah, my sis is just looking at it from that pov. I mean, she is raised up to believe that you have to earn the right to lead (be smart in ___ to teach ____, you have to know ____ to do ___). Even people like me find it hard to accept when someone basically tells you that you have to submit because you have a vagina :o
I don’t think your sister is understanding the difference between relating to peers and to marriage at this age.
There is sacrifices for both husbands and wives in marriage.
As she progresses in her faith formation she will learn about these nuances. It is not a concept that an 11 year old can fully grasp.

Submission is a loaded word too, and it can have both negative and positive connotations. It does not mean blindly obey just because…

🤷
 
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