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c659smith
Guest
You bet the Lord is my Shepherd but it takes the Apostles and the Saints to lead us there by the water Before I lay down.
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You bet the Lord is my Shepherd but it takes the Apostles and the Saints to lead us there by the water Before I lay down.
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hays1122
Guest
How long have Catholics been using the rosary beads?
Religions who use beads for prayer:
Islam,Buddhists,Hindu,Baha’i,Jews,Catholics,Eastern orthodox Christians,the episcopal church.
Islam call it Tasbih a form of prayer that involves the repetitive utterances of short sentences glorifying God in Islam.
glory be to allah-repeat 33 times
praise be to allah-repeat 33
god is the greaest-repeat 34
After reading this about other religions that use beads for praying I was wondering when Catholics started using beads for prayer.
I’m thinking Catholics must have gotten the idea from a religion that came before them.
Did they get it from the Jews,then who did the Jews get it from?
I wonder if this may have started back when Salomon allowed those other religions into his palace. When he married the women from countries God had told him not to have anything to do with.
Or if it was recent,did they get the idea from Mary when she appeared in an apparition?
Religions who use beads for prayer:
Islam,Buddhists,Hindu,Baha’i,Jews,Catholics,Eastern orthodox Christians,the episcopal church.
Islam call it Tasbih a form of prayer that involves the repetitive utterances of short sentences glorifying God in Islam.
glory be to allah-repeat 33 times
praise be to allah-repeat 33
god is the greaest-repeat 34
After reading this about other religions that use beads for praying I was wondering when Catholics started using beads for prayer.
I’m thinking Catholics must have gotten the idea from a religion that came before them.
Did they get it from the Jews,then who did the Jews get it from?
I wonder if this may have started back when Salomon allowed those other religions into his palace. When he married the women from countries God had told him not to have anything to do with.
Or if it was recent,did they get the idea from Mary when she appeared in an apparition?
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Hisalone
Guest
All excellent points.
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hays1122
Guest
What do you mean by this remark please?
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Filioque
Guest
A read of Post 577 and 578 gives a glimpse of the tactics that ICA04 uses. Looking through his past arguments, he becomes upset and takes all his toys out of the sand box once someone exposes his arguments as false statements, or questions why his position against the Catholic Church and practices that are approved, (in the case of the intercession of the Saints, not required, but encouraged, from the very first days of the Church.) he becomes upset, charges that he is being picked on, and attacks, then walks off.what the heck was so hostile about that??? Man … you’re pretty sensative huh?
While I’ve only been posting here recently, I’ve been reading the posts for over a year here. His tactics are not unusual for many who come here to “Save” Catholics, or tell us that we need to abandon what the Apostles taught and believe the Theological intentions of the fifteenth to eighteenth Centuries.
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Filioque
Guest
Based on the question you posed, We would have to also ask if the Gita in Hinduism, and the Sutras of Buddhism which pre-date the New Testament, and much of the Old, mean the Torah was simply a recent idea copied from them? Since the story of the Flood and the Garden of Eden are also found in the Writings of Ancient Mesopotamia, does that mean my Jewish fore bearers just ripped off the stories, and we can’t use them in the Scriptures? So should we reject the Scriptures because other religions have Scriptures?
The fact that human beings, all created by the One Triune God have developed similar external rituals, or means of connecting back to God does not (In my opinion) mean the usage is wrong. It shows to me how, even when someone has not heard the Gospel of Jesus, he is compelled by his Creator to try to seek Him out. Until the Gospel is revealed to him, he will do the best he can, and understands, as Saul did until the scales fell from his eyes, and he understood Jesus.
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Filioque
Guest
Still waiting for a reply to my posting about the “Archbishop’s” alleged statements being fabricated by an Anti-Catholic.
As an aside, Boettener, and those that rely on him, as well as the sources he relied on made the same misleading statements about many Catholic’s they claim to quote. One of his most infamous are when he quotes John Henry Newman. Newman was a very anti-catholic Evangelical Anglican Clergyman when he started reading some of the writings of the Early Fathers. He came to understand that the Catholic praxis was the same as the Early Church. However long before he came to that conclusion he had written some very anti-Papal things. In his Apologia pro Vita Sua, he quoted his earlier statements, and explained why he no longer held to those ideas. Boettener without giving citation to where he had gotten the quote claimed that the by then Cardinal Newman, had made the anti-Papal statement, telling his readers that even a Cardinal of the Catholic Church did not hold the Papal claims to be true. Totally misrepresenting the position of Newman which had changed from the original position when he was still a Protestant.
So what is the answer to the good “Archbishop” and the falsified statements by him?
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hays1122
Guest
My question is basically, When did Catholics start to use the Rosary?
Was it when Mary appeared as an apparition or before that?
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ICA04
Guest
When something hits too close to home, you start proclaiming it to be fabricated. There is nothing fabricated about what I posted. Nothing… You’re barking up a tree that doesn’t exist. Over the years many Catholic clergy have made statements similar to this and even others have finally come to admit that the church has carried their honor of Mary too far and even into worship.
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LilyM
Guest
The origins of the practice are lost in the mists of early Christianity, certainly prior to any recorded apparition of Mary. Its form has changed over the centuries, some of the change due to some apparitions, most of it not.
Basically it has always, from earliest days, been the custom of Christian monks and priests, following the tradition of Jewish Temple worship, to recite the 150 Psalms in prayer.
Illiterate people who wanted to emulate this practice but could not read or memorise all the Psalms, instead would recite 150 other prayers - one for each Psalm, keeping count on a string of beads.
At first it was usually 150 Our Fathers, later 150 Hail Marys (which prayer is primarily based on the Angel’s and Elizabeth’s words to Mary in the Gospels).
The Rosary has changed in form and emphasis somewhat over the centuries, with the Hail Marys being divided into 150 groups of 10 (decades) with other prayers inbetween each ‘decade’, as well as before and after each group of 50, and a ‘mystery’ (episode of Christ’s or Mary’s life, starting at the Annunciation of Christ’s birth, through to Christ sending the Holy Spirit as well as the dogmatic teaching of Mary’s Assumption, and an honouring of her as Queen of Heaven, a reminder that we all hope to receive the ‘victor’s crown’ in heaven as she has done) assigned as the focus of each ‘decade’.
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ICA04
Guest
You wrongly assumed that I would not.
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Filioque
Guest
I’m not the first to claim the quote is fabricated, The good bishop himself claimed it and another speech he was alleged to have given at the Vatican Council, where fabricated. Protestant detractors published what was allegedly a speech in which he was reputed to have said that he had read the Bible for the first time in his life the night before and had found claims that Peter was the first Pope where not contained in the Bible. This too he denied had ever occured. So if I am to believe that the speech and the statement did occur, then I’ll have to see some evidence beyond your word, some real and unbiased source. Otherwise I can start making up or posting quotes that have no basis in truth, and call them true because I say so. All I am asking you to do is to back up your claims. If they are true, that should be no problem.
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Filioque
Guest
You either posted a red herring, seeking to cloud the issues, or you sincerly asked two questions. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I replied in part to one of them…
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c659smith
Guest
will you pray the Hail Mary?
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ICA04
Guest
I do many many times everytime I say the Rosary which is twice, maybe three times a year. You had no clue did you?
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Good_Fella
Guest
Jesus was against prayers that did not come from the heart, the mere formulation of empty words. He never condemned the ritualistic repetitive prayers of the Jews in their worship. What our Lord did oppose was invoking God without a childlike trust in our heavenly Father’s providence. Once we presume to know what our needs are and elevate our temporal wants above our true spiritual needs, with no regard to the will of the Father and the kingdom of heaven, in our prayer life, our invocation to God amounts to vain babbling.
Our Lord did encourage us to pray for others to God which is exactly what Mary does for us in heaven as an active member of the mystical body of Christ. Since we pray for each other it naturally follows that we ask other people to pray for us in and through Christ. Paul tells us that by virtue of our baptism in Christ we are stewards of God’s grace according to the measure of grace and the spiritual gifts we have received. Among all the faithful in the body of Christ and in the order of grace, Mary wields the most power and influence in her intercessory prayers for the Church and the human race by virtue of her Divine Maternity and perfection through grace. Her nearness to God is incomparable with ours in light of all the great things the Almighty has done for her from the moment Mary was immaculately conceived and through her Assumption into heaven.
PAX :harp:
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Jimmy_B
Guest
Hello orange_man,
Give me an example please.
What part of this (below quote), is spin or not true for observant Catholics? I am Roman Catholic and I agree with the following quote. Would you please elaborate? Do you even understand the history or purpose of the Rosary? Please look at the first few posts of mine here and tell me specifically what it is that you disagree with, or what it is about the first couple posts that you believe goes against Christian beliefs, we cam start there.
Otherwise, without specifics, your comments here are just that …your own and are unsupported, errant, anti-Christian and anti-Catholic beliefs and “SPIN”… and another example here of “hit-and -run posting”…
Just because you say its so, doesn’t make it true…facts please…
- The Rosary is a devotional prayer that allows us to contemplate on the life of Christ Jesus.
- ****We grow closer to Jesus Christ in the Rosary, because the Rosary leads us to Jesus. ****
- The Rosary is 100% Biblical and 100% Christian.
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Filioque
Guest
You can misquote the Pope, you can misquote me, but please don’t misquote Jesus.
I’ll even use the KJV here.
“But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking”
If Jesus had said that we could not be repetitive in our prayers, then we could only recite the Lord’s prayer once for fear of repeating ourselves, (Which many Protestants add, "For thine is the Kingdom… not found with the prayer in the scriptures by the way) However that is not what Jesus said, He said, vain repetitions. The Catholic Church, true to the teachings of Jesus encourages those who recite prayers, or when she encourages Catholics to read the Bible for 15-30 minutes daily, and pray to the Holy Ghost for inspiration when reading the Holy Writ, discorages vain repetion. If not everyone listens to the Church, who’s fault is it? I’d rather believe that this is an oversight by the people who taught you to hate the Catholic Church, rather than a case of them subtracting from the Bible.
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Ronald_E
Guest
I am out of town and do not have my bible with me so I may be wrong about the following statement. Didn’t Paul imply that we are all co-redeemers with Christ in that by being members of the Body of Christ we assist in the salvation of other souls through our union with Him.
Also, in Luke I think there is a verse stating that the thoughts of many will be revealed through Mary. I’ve often wondered what that means.
God Bless You.
Ron
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Jerusha
Guest
I see Mary as the messenger to Christ’s Church on the earth. :flowers:
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