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ICA04
Guest
I have read the Gospel of Luke many times and I have never read anything there that even implies this. Can you show me where you are seeing this?
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R
Ronald_E
Guest
I am out of town now and as I stated in my previous post I do not have my bible with me. You can check when Jesus was presented in the Temple.I have read the Gospel of Luke many times and I have never read anything there that even implies this. Can you show me where you are seeing this?
I think St. Paul writes about being co-redeemers in Romans.
I will look this up in about 10 hours if I am lucky enough to get home in that time.
F
Filioque
Guest
Luke 2:23-24 Simeon is addressing Mary about her son Jesus, and Herself. (KJV) which in the original edition had the same books as the Standard (Catholic) Version.I have read the Gospel of Luke many times and I have never read anything there that even implies this. Can you show me where you are seeing this?
34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
35**(Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,)** that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
And St. Paul in Colossians Chapter 1
23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
24Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and** fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ **in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church:
25Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God;
Council of Trent, Session V:
…the saints, who reign with Christ, offer up their prayers to God for men; and that it is good and useful to invoke them suppliantly and, in order to obtain favors from God through His Son Jesus Christ Our Lord, who alone is our Redeemer and Savior…
So St. Paul links his sufferings to the afflictions of Christ. The Catholic Church, in the Council of Trent, (and elsewhere) has taught along with the Bible, (St. Paul, St Luke) that others suffering is only effective in the redemption of the world when it is in union with and subordinate to that of Christ. The idea of co-redemption is not on a par, or equal to that of Jesus, but subordinate to and dependent on that of Jesus.
As for the text in Romans, I’ll look for something there. It would seem that 2000 years of teaching the same thing that Jesus taught the Apostles gives the Catholic Church the advantage, because here we see again, that the Catholic Church does not add or delete from the Bible. In 24 hrs, we have seen that Protestants are taught to omit the Vain out of vain repletion, and here they overlook the address of Simeon to Mary.
Before I get trounced on for “attacking” an individual, a search of the terms Mary and Co-Redeemer will bring on your computer screen, dozens of Anti-Catholic web pages that condemn the Catholic Church for something it does not teach, and diminish the role of Mary to just a nice but sinning gal, who just happened to be there. So too will you find as many sites that condemn the Catholic practice of the rosary and other devotions ab repetitious prayer and leave out vain, when referring to the Bible verse.
My question is who is adding to and deleting from the Bible?
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redrosetea
Guest
I kow of a lady that recited the rosary that wan’t a catholic, and she did it for years…Anglicans recite itWhy won’t non-Catholic Christians recite the Holy Rosary?
G
Good_Fella
Guest
God the Father freely chose Mary to associate her with the work of his grace which resulted in the Incarnation. Moved by the Holy Spirit Mary merited for us the grace of salvation when she pronounced her ‘fiat’. Indeed, God first acted on his own initiative which was then followed by Mary’s free act of love and obedience through her collaboration with the Holy Spirit. In the Christian life the merit of our good works done in grace is first and foremost attributed to the grace of God and then to the faithful “whose good works proceed in Christ” by cooperation with divine grace ( cf. CCC 2008). But since we have been created in the divine image and have a free will, we can either accept or resist God’s grace (Acts 7:51). Elizabeth praised Mary as blessed for having believed in the word of God and consenting to be the mother of our Lord and Savior (Lk 1:45). Thus Mary could rightfully declare: “My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord,” for, unlike Eve, she refused to listen to the serpent by hardening her heart to the will of God and resisting the Holy Spirit who moved her to say “Yes” to God “from the predispositions and assistance given” to her by him. And so by Mary’s “faith working through love” our Savior was born.God chose Mary. His Salvation didin’t rest with her, it rested with Christ. Her yes was magnificent absolutely, but Christ’s being made incarnate didn’t depend upon Mary, it depended upon God the Father. Salvation is only in one name, that being Jesus Christ (alone).
By her free and active ‘fiat’, Mary collaborated with God in his work of salvation. It was by Mary that the eternal Word was made flesh and became man so that we can become sons and daughters of God by adoption (Gal 4:4-5). Only Jesus can save us by the merits of his Precious Blood, and only God can redeem the world, but Mary was granted the divine favor of participating in the order of redemption by virtue of the grace of her Divine Maternity. By her free act of faith and obedience to the will of God, and out of her love for God and spirit of charity towards humankind, Mary gave God the body he willed to have in order to save us as he preordained from all eternity. Our Blessed Mother’s participation was both passive and active. Thus she was no mere instrument of God. Mary regarded herself as the Lord’s handmaid, not bondslave. Our Lord would never deny any human being the freedom to respond to his call and grace.
Drawing on Luke’s narrative of the Annunciation, Justin Martyr (150) and Irenaeus (180) perceived Mary as instrumental in God’s plan of salvation by the merit of her free obedience to the word of God. These early Church Fathers regarded Mary’s ‘fiat’ as indirectly causative of our salvation founded upon our heavenly Father’s initiative. They believed that Mary’s free act of faith and obedience contributed to the salvation victoriously won for us by Christ, the new Adam, just as Eve’s free act of unfaithfulness and disobedience contributed to the fall of Adam. Mary’s ‘fiat’ was seen as a recompense owed by the human race for the disobedient act of Eve. This is what the term ‘merit’ generally refers to: making up for something we must take responsibilty for. God certainly never predetermined that Eve, or any of us for that matter, should sin. The fall of humankind was not God’s intention before he created the world and Adam and Eve. But God has preordained from all eternity that we be reconciled with him.
The Catholic Church teaches that " since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion." Mary was justified at the first instant she was immaculately conceived preserved free from original sin. And since our Blessed Mother was herself redeemed, she is unable to redeem the world on a level equal to or parallel with Christ. However, “moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life” (cf. CCC 2010). One cannot honestly deny that Mary’s collaboration with the Holy Spirit, which was initiated by divine grace or favor (Lk 1: 28,30), helped make the “attainment of eternal life” possible for those who will persevere in faith until the race is over and receive their imperishable crown. Mary’s good work took the form of her Divine Maternity, whose merits were a gift of God’s goodness. Grace preceded Our Lady, but by her free consent to be the mother of our Lord, the world has been “given what is due” to everyone who cooperates with God’s grace: salvation (cf. CCC 2009).
For we are God’s co-workers.
*1 Corinthians 3, 9 *
“You are glorified in the assembly of your Holy Ones, for in crowning their merits you are crowning your own gifts.”
St. Augustine
PAX :harp:
F
Filioque
Guest
Good Fella:
Thanks for posting 1 Corinthians 3:9, I was trying to remember where exactly that verse was. As a Jew, and now a Catholic, it has been taught to me to read the entire Scripture for what it says as a whole, not just “Proof Texts” as they usually denote someone who is trying to fit the Bible into their own narrow interpretation, (consciously or not)
Thanks for posting 1 Corinthians 3:9, I was trying to remember where exactly that verse was. As a Jew, and now a Catholic, it has been taught to me to read the entire Scripture for what it says as a whole, not just “Proof Texts” as they usually denote someone who is trying to fit the Bible into their own narrow interpretation, (consciously or not)
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
The Virgin Mary in the Bible
Genesis (NAB) 3:15
15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel.”
Revelation (NAB) 12
1 A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 She was with child…(4) Then the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when **she **gave birth.5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and his throne. 6 The woman herself fled into the desert where she had a place prepared by God, that there she might be taken care of for twelve hundred and sixty days.
10 Anyone destined for captivity goes into captivity. Anyone destined to be slain by the sword shall be slain by the sword. Such is the faithful endurance of the holy ones.
17 Then the dragon became angry with **the woman **and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus. (Revelation
(NAB) 12)
Isaiah (NAB) 7:14
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel. (Isaiah (NAB) 7)
Luke 1
27 to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin’s name was Mary.28 And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.”29 But she was greatly troubled at what was said and pondered what sort of greeting this might be.30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.31 Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.32 He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, 33 and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.
Genesis (NAB) 3:15
15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel.”
Revelation (NAB) 12
1 A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 She was with child…(4) Then the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when **she **gave birth.5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and his throne. 6 The woman herself fled into the desert where she had a place prepared by God, that there she might be taken care of for twelve hundred and sixty days.
10 Anyone destined for captivity goes into captivity. Anyone destined to be slain by the sword shall be slain by the sword. Such is the faithful endurance of the holy ones.
17 Then the dragon became angry with **the woman **and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus. (Revelation
(NAB) 12)
Isaiah (NAB) 7:14
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel. (Isaiah (NAB) 7)
Luke 1
27 to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin’s name was Mary.28 And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.”29 But she was greatly troubled at what was said and pondered what sort of greeting this might be.30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.31 Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.32 He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, 33 and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
The Virgin Mary in the Bible (continued)
Luke 1
”34 But Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?” 35 And the angel said to her in reply, “The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power you have found favor with God. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.36 And behold, Elizabeth, your relative, has also conceived a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month for her who was called barren; 37 for nothing will be impossible for God.”38 Mary said, “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.” Then the angel departed from her. (Luke 1:27 (NAB) 1)
Matthew 1
18 Now this is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about. When his mother Marywas betrothed to Joseph, but before they lived together, she was found with child through the holy Spirit. 19 Joseph her husband, since he was a righteous man, yet unwilling to expose her to shame, decided to divorce her quietly. 20 Such was his intention when, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take **Mary **your wife into your home. For it is through the holy Spirit that this child has been conceived in her. 21 She will bear a son and you are to name him Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.” 22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet:
23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel,” which means “God is with us.” 24 When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took his wife into his home.25 He had no relations with her until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus. (Matthew 1:18-25 (NAB) 1)
Luke 1
39 During those days **Mary **set out and traveled to the hill country in haste to a town of Judah,40 where she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth.41 When Elizabeth heard **Mary’s **greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit,42 cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.43 And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.45 Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.” (Luke 1:30-45 (NAB) 1)
Luke 1
”34 But Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?” 35 And the angel said to her in reply, “The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power you have found favor with God. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.36 And behold, Elizabeth, your relative, has also conceived a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month for her who was called barren; 37 for nothing will be impossible for God.”38 Mary said, “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.” Then the angel departed from her. (Luke 1:27 (NAB) 1)
Matthew 1
18 Now this is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about. When his mother Marywas betrothed to Joseph, but before they lived together, she was found with child through the holy Spirit. 19 Joseph her husband, since he was a righteous man, yet unwilling to expose her to shame, decided to divorce her quietly. 20 Such was his intention when, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take **Mary **your wife into your home. For it is through the holy Spirit that this child has been conceived in her. 21 She will bear a son and you are to name him Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.” 22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet:
23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel,” which means “God is with us.” 24 When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took his wife into his home.25 He had no relations with her until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus. (Matthew 1:18-25 (NAB) 1)
Luke 1
39 During those days **Mary **set out and traveled to the hill country in haste to a town of Judah,40 where she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth.41 When Elizabeth heard **Mary’s **greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit,42 cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.43 And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.45 Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.” (Luke 1:30-45 (NAB) 1)
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
The Virgin Mary in the Bible (continued)
Luke 1 (song of Mary)
46 And Mary said: “My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
47 my spirit rejoices in God my savior.
48 For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.
49 The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name.
50 His mercy is from age to age to those who fear him.
51 He has shown might with his arm, dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart.
52 He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones but lifted up the lowly.
53 The hungry he has filled with good things; the rich he has sent away empty.
54 He has helped Israel his servant, remembering his mercy,
55 according to his promise to our fathers, to Abraham and to his descendants forever.”
56 Mary remained with her about three months and then returned to her home. (Luke 1:46-56 (NAB) 1)
Luke 2
5 to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child.6 While they were there, the time came for her to have her child,7 and she gave birth to her firstborn son. She wrapped him in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.
(Luke 2:5-7 (NAB) 2)
Luke 2
16 So they went in haste and found Mary and Joseph, and the infant lying in the manger.17 When they saw this, they made known the message that had been told them about this child.18 All who heard it were amazed by what had been told them by the shepherds.19 And **Mary **kept all these things, reflecting on them in her heart.20 Then the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen, just as it had been told to them. (Luke 2:16-20 (NAB) 2)
Luke 2
34 and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is destined for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be contradicted35 (and you yourself a sword will pierce) so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.” (Luke 2:34,35(NAB) 2)
Luke 1 (song of Mary)
46 And Mary said: “My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
47 my spirit rejoices in God my savior.
48 For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.
49 The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name.
50 His mercy is from age to age to those who fear him.
51 He has shown might with his arm, dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart.
52 He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones but lifted up the lowly.
53 The hungry he has filled with good things; the rich he has sent away empty.
54 He has helped Israel his servant, remembering his mercy,
55 according to his promise to our fathers, to Abraham and to his descendants forever.”
56 Mary remained with her about three months and then returned to her home. (Luke 1:46-56 (NAB) 1)
Luke 2
5 to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child.6 While they were there, the time came for her to have her child,7 and she gave birth to her firstborn son. She wrapped him in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.
(Luke 2:5-7 (NAB) 2)
Luke 2
16 So they went in haste and found Mary and Joseph, and the infant lying in the manger.17 When they saw this, they made known the message that had been told them about this child.18 All who heard it were amazed by what had been told them by the shepherds.19 And **Mary **kept all these things, reflecting on them in her heart.20 Then the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen, just as it had been told to them. (Luke 2:16-20 (NAB) 2)
Luke 2
34 and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is destined for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be contradicted35 (and you yourself a sword will pierce) so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.” (Luke 2:34,35(NAB) 2)
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
The Virgin Mary in the Bible (continued)
Luke (NAB) 2
48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished, and **his mother **said to him, “Son, why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been looking for you with great anxiety.”49 And he said to them, “Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father’s house?” 50 But they did not understand what he said to them.
51 He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was obedient to them; and his mother kept all these things in her heart.
John (NAB) 2
1 On the third day there was a wedding in Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding.3 When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”4 (And) Jesus said to her, “Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you.”
11 Jesus did this as the beginning of his signs in Cana in Galilee and so revealed his glory, and his disciples began to believe in him. 12 After this, he and his mother, (his) brothers, and his disciples went down to Capernaum and stayed there only a few days.
Mark 6
3 Is he not the carpenter, the son of Mary, and the brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him. 4 Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his native place and among his own kin and in his own house.” 5 So he was not able to perform any mighty deed there, apart from curing a few sick people by laying his hands on them. (Mark 6:3-5 (NAB) 6)
Matthew 13
55 Is he not the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother named Mary and his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas?56 Are not his sisters all with us? Where did this man get all this?”57 And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his native place and in his own house.”58 And he did not work many mighty deeds there because of their lack of faith. (Matthew 13:55-58 (NAB) 13)
Luke (NAB) 2
48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished, and **his mother **said to him, “Son, why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been looking for you with great anxiety.”49 And he said to them, “Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father’s house?” 50 But they did not understand what he said to them.
51 He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was obedient to them; and his mother kept all these things in her heart.
John (NAB) 2
1 On the third day there was a wedding in Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding.3 When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”4 (And) Jesus said to her, “Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you.”
11 Jesus did this as the beginning of his signs in Cana in Galilee and so revealed his glory, and his disciples began to believe in him. 12 After this, he and his mother, (his) brothers, and his disciples went down to Capernaum and stayed there only a few days.
Mark 6
3 Is he not the carpenter, the son of Mary, and the brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him. 4 Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his native place and among his own kin and in his own house.” 5 So he was not able to perform any mighty deed there, apart from curing a few sick people by laying his hands on them. (Mark 6:3-5 (NAB) 6)
Matthew 13
55 Is he not the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother named Mary and his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas?56 Are not his sisters all with us? Where did this man get all this?”57 And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his native place and in his own house.”58 And he did not work many mighty deeds there because of their lack of faith. (Matthew 13:55-58 (NAB) 13)
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
The Virgin Mary in the Bible (continued)
Matthew 1
16 Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary. Of her was born Jesus who is called the Messiah.
17 Thus the total number of generations from Abraham to David is fourteen generations; from David to the Babylonian exile, fourteen generations; from the Babylonian exile to the Messiah, fourteen generations. (Matthew (NAB) 1)
Matthew 2
11 and on entering the house they saw the child with Mary his mother. They prostrated themselves and did him homage. Then they opened their treasures and offered him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. 12 And having been warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed for their country by another way. (Matthew 2:11,12 (NAB) 2)
J***ohn (NAB) 19 ***
25 Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary of Magdala. 26 When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son.” 27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.
Acts 1
12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a sabbath day’s journey away; 13 and when they had entered, they went up to the upper room, where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot and Judas the son of James. 14 All these with one accord devoted themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.
**13 **When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly a sound came from heaven like the rush of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed and resting on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Matthew 1
16 Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary. Of her was born Jesus who is called the Messiah.
17 Thus the total number of generations from Abraham to David is fourteen generations; from David to the Babylonian exile, fourteen generations; from the Babylonian exile to the Messiah, fourteen generations. (Matthew (NAB) 1)
Matthew 2
11 and on entering the house they saw the child with Mary his mother. They prostrated themselves and did him homage. Then they opened their treasures and offered him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. 12 And having been warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed for their country by another way. (Matthew 2:11,12 (NAB) 2)
J***ohn (NAB) 19 ***
25 Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary of Magdala. 26 When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son.” 27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.
Acts 1
12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a sabbath day’s journey away; 13 and when they had entered, they went up to the upper room, where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot and Judas the son of James. 14 All these with one accord devoted themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.
**13 **When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly a sound came from heaven like the rush of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed and resting on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
R
racing59
Guest
The Rosary is a prayer tool. I personally do not pray the Rosary because I prefer talking to God. I do feel some people put to much into it, that you must pray the Rosary. Not all Catholics pray the Rosary.Like I said I feel it is a good prayer tool for some people, but not for everyone.Why won’t non-Catholic Christians recite the Holy Rosary?
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ICA04
Guest
It doesn’t say anything remotely close to getting Mary as a co-redemptrix with Christ. In fact it once again reiterates Christ alone being our redeemer. My question is also who is adding to or deleting from Scripture.Luke 2:23-24 Simeon is addressing Mary about her son Jesus, and Herself. (KJV) which in the original edition had the same books as the Standard (Catholic) Version.
34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
35**(Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,)** that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
And St. Paul in Colossians Chapter 1
23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
24Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and** fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ **in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church:
25Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God;
Council of Trent, Session V:
…the saints, who reign with Christ, offer up their prayers to God for men; and that it is good and useful to invoke them suppliantly and, in order to obtain favors from God through His Son Jesus Christ Our Lord, who alone is our Redeemer and Savior…
So St. Paul links his sufferings to the afflictions of Christ. The Catholic Church, in the Council of Trent, (and elsewhere) has taught along with the Bible, (St. Paul, St Luke) that others suffering is only effective in the redemption of the world when it is in union with and subordinate to that of Christ. The idea of co-redemption is not on a par, or equal to that of Jesus, but subordinate to and dependent on that of Jesus.
As for the text in Romans, I’ll look for something there. It would seem that 2000 years of teaching the same thing that Jesus taught the Apostles gives the Catholic Church the advantage, because here we see again, that the Catholic Church does not add or delete from the Bible. In 24 hrs, we have seen that Protestants are taught to omit the Vain out of vain repletion, and here they overlook the address of Simeon to Mary.
Before I get trounced on for “attacking” an individual, a search of the terms Mary and Co-Redeemer will bring on your computer screen, dozens of Anti-Catholic web pages that condemn the Catholic Church for something it does not teach, and diminish the role of Mary to just a nice but sinning gal, who just happened to be there. So too will you find as many sites that condemn the Catholic practice of the rosary and other devotions ab repetitious prayer and leave out vain, when referring to the Bible verse.
My question is who is adding to and deleting from the Bible?
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redrosetea
Guest
The rosary is more than just prayer it is meditation…there are special graces we receive when we say it
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ICA04
Guest
The Rosary is a meditational tool for prayer but I do not agree that there are special graces that come from saying it. God’s grace is just that, nothing more and nothing less. We cannot merit it, it is a free gift from him. This came straight from the readings in Ephesians at church this morning.The rosary is more than just prayer it is meditation…there are special graces we receive when we say it
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redrosetea
Guest
I don’t care if you agree or not…The Rosary is the life of Christ through the eyes of Mary, and she promised to assist those at the hr of the death that recite it faithfully…Your entitled to your own opinion but I will trust Our Mother …she never lets us down…The Rosary is filled with graces just as she is…Seeing as you aren’t even Catholic and I doubt if you have ever said it, I hardly think you are an expert on the graces of the RosaryThe Rosary is a meditational tool for prayer but I do not agree that there are special graces that come from saying it. God’s grace is just that, nothing more and nothing less. We cannot merit it, it is a free gift from him. This came straight from the readings in Ephesians at church this morning.
By the way where does it say in scripture this is not true…? Electricity isn’t in the Bible either, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist or work…I will trust the Rosary and tool we have used for centuries…you can do as you please…just don’t lecture me on my faith
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c659smith
Guest
Thank You and I will recite the rosary for a journey to take you back home to the Catholic Church.I do many many times everytime I say the Rosary which is twice, maybe three times a year. You had no clue did you?
God Bless
C
c659smith
Guest
Can you grow in Grace or grow away from Grace?The Rosary is a meditational tool for prayer but I do not agree that there are special graces that come from saying it. God’s grace is just that, nothing more and nothing less. We cannot merit it, it is a free gift from him. This came straight from the readings in Ephesians at church this morning.
Did the Apostles dispense Grace?
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Good_Fella
Guest
Not all Catholics go to Mass or to confession on a regular basis either. And so by their negligence they deprive themselves of the graces they need to persevere in faith. The Rosary is more than a prayer tool: it’s an instrument of divine grace which it has pleased our Lord to channel through the intercession of his Blessed Mother.The Rosary is a prayer tool. I personally do not pray the Rosary because I prefer talking to God. I do feel some people put to much into it, that you must pray the Rosary. Not all Catholics pray the Rosary.Like I said I feel it is a good prayer tool for some people, but not for everyone.
“The Rosary is both meditation and supplication. Insistent prayer to the Mother of God is based on confidence that her maternal intercession can obtain all things from her Son. She is ‘all-powerful by grace’…When in the Rosary we plead to Mary, the sanctuary of the Holy Spirit (cf. Lk 1:35), she intercedes for us before the Father who filled her with grace and before the Son born of her womb, praying with us and for us.”
Rosarium Virginis Mariae, Pope John Paul ll
“The more an expression of prayer preserves its own nature and individual characteristics the more fruitful it becomes. Once the pre-eminent value of liturgical rites has been reaffirmed it will not be difficult to appreciate the fact that the Rosary is a practice of piety which easily harmonizes with the liturgy. In fact, like the liturgy, it is of a community nature, draws its inspiration from Sacred Scripture, and is oriented towards the mystery of Christ. The commemoration in the liturgy and the contemplative remembrance proper to the Rosary, although existing on essentially different planes of reality, have as their object the same salvific events wrought by Christ. The former presents anew, under the veil of signs and operative in a hidden way, the great mysteries of our redemption. The latter, by means of devout contemplation, recalls these same mysteries to the mind of the person praying and stimulates the will to draw from them the norms of living…it is not difficult to understand that the Rosary is an exercise of piety that draws its motivating force from the liturgy and leads naturally back to it, if practiced in conformity with its original inspiration.”
Pope Paul Vl, Marialis Cultus
“We well know the Rosary’s powerful efficacy to obtain the maternal aid of the Virgin. By no means is there only one way to pray to obtain this aid. However, We consider the Holy Rosary the most convenient and most fruitful means…What prayers are better adapted and more beautiful than the Lord’s prayer and the angelic salutation, which are the flowers with which this mystical crown is formed? With the meditation of the Sacred Mysteries added to the vocal prayers, there emerges another very great advantage, so that all, even the most simple and less educated, have in this a prompt and easy way to nourish and preserve their faith…And truly, from the frequent meditation on the Mysteries, the soul little by little and impercitibly draws and absorbs the virtues they contain, and is wondrously enkindled with a longing for things immortal, and becomes strongly and easily impelled to the follow the path which Christ Himself and His Mother have followed.”
Pope Pius Xll, Ingruentium Malorum
“The power thus put into her hands is all but unlimited. How unerringly right, then, are Christian souls when they turn to Mary for help…confidently sharing with her their hopes and past achievements, their sorrows and joys, commending themselves like children to the care of a bountiful mother…Every motive that bolsters and increases confidence in the power of our mighty and kindhearted Virgin Mother to obtain the things we ask for should act as a powerful incentive generating in us that fiery zeal to pray to her - a zeal We would incite in every Catholic heart…We think that the most effective way to her favor lies in the Rosary…Meditation on the mysteries of the Rosary, often repeated in the spirit of faith, cannot help but please her and move her, the fondest of mothers, to show mercy to her children.”
*Pope Leo Xlll, Adiutricem *
PAX :harp:
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