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O.S.Luke
Guest
Correction. ANOTHER sweeping assumption about we who are Protestants.
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SD_Catholic
Guest
I know you were just making a point here, and you’re probably correct on these reasonings for other non-Catholics. I would answer this by saying there are pre-written prayers in the Bible so they must not be all bad… It’s only materialistic if you don’t understand what it represents, and it’d true devotional purpose… There is more than one example in the Bible of acceptable repetitious praying… All final prayers are aimed at God, we understand that the Saints are praying to God with us. They are fully alive with God and if they’re offering prayers to God as golden bowls of incense then I want my prayers in that bowl too.
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SD_Catholic
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The problem is that you see it as praying to a dead person while we see it as asking someone who is more alive than any of us to pray for and with us… Someone in heaven has only lost their body, but their soul has been perfected and they are fully alive with God.
The earliest Christians taught by the Apostles were praying to the Saints, if it was wrong I thing they would have been told.SD
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chrisb
Guest
Because the Jesus Prayer on a Chokti is easier?
O, Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. :byzsoc:
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flameburns623
Guest
In the sense you are speaking of ‘death’ even Julius Caesar isn’t ‘dead’: he may be suffering in Hell, or by the grace of God, enduring purification in Purgatory, but he is not ‘dead’ in the sense of being utterly extinct and void of any consciousness whatsoever. The same would be true of any person who has passed from this mortal coil into the Afterlife.The problem is that you see it as praying to a dead person while we see it as asking someone who is more alive than any of us to pray for and with us… Someone in heaven has only lost their body, but their soul has been perfected and they are fully alive with God.
SD
When Scripture speaks of death, however, it most commonly uses the ordinary sense of that word. Remember that King Saul sinned by summoning up the soul of a righteous departed person, the prophet Samuel. There was no ‘dispensation’ granted to Saul because Samuel was ‘not really dead’. There is no Biblical basis for discerning that we who exist in this physical realm have any means of conveying to those who are now in Heaven our requests for prayers. There is considerable precedent for concern that attempting to communicate with those beyond this realm of existence is wicked. There is some evidence to suggest that those in Heaven do indeed pray on behalf of those on Earth. I would tend to think it far better to address my prayers to God and to ask the Holy Ghost to convey my prayer needs to those in Heaven, rather than engage in a practice which might be sinful.
Debating point for the Roman Catholics: I have been to Rome, to the Catacombs. I have seen tombs and graffiti of Christians inscribed with what I am told are requests for prayers. I have been told that some of these inscriptions are very ancient indeed, dating back nearly to the 1st Century or so. I cannot absolutely verify the dating, nor can I read Latin or Greek. But I am literate enough that I could puzzle-out the inscriptions if I cared to; and in any case i see no reason to question expert testimony that would be so readily falsifiable. So I personally concede that it is indeed a very early practice of Christians to express sentiments for the Godly departed to pray for them.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Originally Posted by paarsurrey
If Muhammad did not use a rosary and instructed for it; I will never use it.
So, my question still stands:
if Jesus spoke the word “Rosary” from his mouth.!? Did he? Please.
Thanks
Hi
If Muhammad did not use a rosary and instructed for it; I will never use it.
So, my question still stands:
if Jesus spoke the word “Rosary” from his mouth.!? Did he? Please.
Thanks
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flameburns623
Guest
The word ‘Rosary’ does not appear in Sacred Scripture. However the prayers of the Rosary are either derived from Scripture or compatible with Scripture. The meditiations of the Rosary are based upon Scripture. There are numerous exhortations in Scripture to pray. There are a few indications in Scripture that certain kinds of repetitive prayer is good and acceptable, though there is also a warning not to pray in a fashion that ‘multiplies words as the heathen do’, a somewhat obscure comand from ‘the lips of Jesus’ as you put it.
In Islam, there is a type of Rosary which involves the daily recitation of the Names of God. Is there something in the Sunnah which suggests that Muhammed prayed this?
Keep in mind that Christians. like Muslims, do not resrict themselves only to things found in the literal words of Sacred Scripture. Christians also, so some degree at least, accept Sacred Tradition as a way of understanding and applying Scripture. The degree to which Tradition is relied upon varies considerably, but almost all Christians are influenced by Tradition to some degree, knowingly or not. You can think of Sacred Tradition as somewhat akin to the Sunnah of Islam, although not so well-defined. Hope that helps!
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Jimmy_B
Guest
Hello** joyfulseraph**, Here are some Bible references shown with the Hail Mary Prayer… The Hail Mary prayer is taken directly from the Gospels…
The Prayers of the Rosary, in the Bible - Hail Mary
Hail Mary, Luke 1:28
full of grace, Luke 1:28
the LORD is with thee, Luke 1:28
blessed are you among all women Luke 1:42
and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus, Luke 1:42
Holy Mary, mother of God, Genesis 3:15 Isaiah 7:14 Luke 1:43 Revelations 12:5 ,13, 17 (see Luke 2:34 same as Revelations 12:5)
pray for us sinners now and in the hour of our death Revelations 8:3. Romans 15:30 1 Timothy 2:1 1Thessalonians 5:23-25 2 Thessalonians 1:11 Ephesians 6:18-19 Revelation 5:8 Job 42:1-17 Job 42:8 Genesis 20:7 John 11:25 Isaiah 53:12
1 Thessalonians 5:17
17 Pray without ceasing.
Peace
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Jimmy_B
Guest
The Prayers of the Rosary, in the Bible - **The Our Father **
Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name; Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen. Matthew 6:9-15 Luke 11:1-4
The Prayers of the Rosary, in the Bible - **Glory be **
Glory be to the Father, 1 Corinthians 10:31 Luke 2:14; Revelations 4:11; 5:11-14
And the Son, Mathew 25:31
And the Holy Spirit****.**** 1 Peter 4:14
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, Revelations 22:13
world without end. Genesis 8:21-22, Ecclesiastes.1:4 Isaiah 45:17 Ephesians 3:21 2 peter 3:7 Isaiah 65:17 and Psalms 78:69, 89:36-37, 93:1, 96:10, 104:5, 119:90, 148:4-6
Amen.
**Peace **
Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name; Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen. Matthew 6:9-15 Luke 11:1-4
The Prayers of the Rosary, in the Bible - **Glory be **
Glory be to the Father, 1 Corinthians 10:31 Luke 2:14; Revelations 4:11; 5:11-14
And the Son, Mathew 25:31
And the Holy Spirit****.**** 1 Peter 4:14
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, Revelations 22:13
world without end. Genesis 8:21-22, Ecclesiastes.1:4 Isaiah 45:17 Ephesians 3:21 2 peter 3:7 Isaiah 65:17 and Psalms 78:69, 89:36-37, 93:1, 96:10, 104:5, 119:90, 148:4-6
Amen.
**Peace
**
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Pokedaughter
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We pray the Lord’s prayer. Don’t know much else about the Rosary prayers. Heard “Hail Mary” in mass during All Saint’s Day and was not moved at all. Just sounded like a bunch os monitone chanting. I pray scripture and my heart. Just giving my honest answer.
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Jimmy_B
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Thanks…We pray the Lord’s prayer. Don’t know much else about the Rosary prayers. Heard “Hail Mary” in mass during All Saint’s Day and was not moved at all. Just sounded like a bunch os monitone chanting. I pray scripture and my heart. Just giving my honest answer.
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Publisher
Guest
I have a"chokti" given to me by an Orthodox acquaintence of mine several years ago. I have used it in private meditation…and even on occasion I have taken it to Meeting with me and used it. One such time I looked up and saw another Friend across the room using a “mala”, we smiled at one another. He and I had a nice chat after Meeting.
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bengal_fan
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bengal_fan
Guest
and far more ancient. and actually used as an example of perfect prayer by Jesus.Because the Jesus Prayer on a Chokti is easier?
i believe in the intercession of the saints and i believe mary holds a high place of significance in salvation history and in eschatology.
i would be more apt to pray the rosary if it were 10 “Our Fathers” and 1 “Hail Mary”. or if some of the prayers for mary’s intercession were exchanged for ones directed to other saints as well. not trying to marginalized mary, but trying to show that all of the saints can intercede for us and all of their lives can point back to Jesus.
i just think the focus is a bit out of whack. the fact that it is more about asking for intercession on our part rather than expressing God’s character and nature (more of what the “Our Father” does) seems too self focused.
i use prayer beads and a chokti somewhat regularly. i do ask for mary’s intercession as well as others as well as the saints here on earth. i do reflect on Christ regularly and the gospel passages. i just don’t like the imbalance of the rosary.
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SD_Catholic
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In the sense you are speaking of ‘death’ even Julius Caesar isn’t ‘dead’: he may be suffering in Hell, or by the grace of God, enduring purification in Purgatory, but he is not ‘dead’ in the sense of being utterly extinct and void of any consciousness whatsoever. The same would be true of any person who has passed from this mortal coil into the Afterlife.
When Scripture speaks of death, however, it most commonly uses the ordinary sense of that word. Remember that King Saul sinned by summoning up the soul of a righteous departed person, the prophet Samuel. There was no ‘dispensation’ granted to Saul because Samuel was ‘not really dead’. QUOTE]
Actually in the sense I’m speaking of it’s the “eternal life” that can only be that which is enjoyed with God:getholy: . Not the spirits of those in hell or as I would think it those in “eternal death”. So no it’s not the same of any person who’s died a mortal death.
And to compare what Saul did to a Catholic asking Mary or a Saint to pray for us is quite unfair. Catholic’s don’t go to mediums or witch doctors to summon up spirits of the dead to help them win a war
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Jimmy_B
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Hello Schultzz,
You’re right, it is not necessary for salvation; however, it does bring some into a closer relationship with Jesus.
I am sure you already knew this, since you are a Catholic…
Peace
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bengal_fan
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the key word is “some”. and to some, it distracts from Jesus.Hello Schultzz,
You’re right, it is not necessary for salvation; however, it does bring** some **into a closer relationship with Jesus.
I am sure you already knew this, since you are a Catholic…
Peace
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Jimmy_B
Guest
Hello flameburns623,
You a right, sometimes I do make “sweeping assumption about we who are Protestants” but not in this thread…At least, I don’t think so… I was just trying to expalin the Rosary.
Peace
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reteeks21
Guest
Jimmy B, you may find it interesting to know that in some circles many people are beginning to recite the rosary for the dual purpose of helping one to got themselves in a focused, calm state of mind before they have personal prayer. I also know that it is being encouraged in small circles within groups like A.A., S.A.A., N.A. etc for the very same reason. Just thought I’d throw that in there.
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Jimmy_B
Guest
Hello bengal-fan,
The Rosary is a prayer of the Gospels.
How do you know if the Rosary “distracts some from Jesus”?
I have been a Roman Catholic my entire life and I come from a long line of Catholics and I have never seen what you describe. I fact, I have seen the opposite. People I know and have met who regularly pray the Rosary are very focused on Jesus and it is in part because they do practice this Catholic devotion. The Rosary is 100% Christian and 100% Biblical. You might want to go back and read might posts…The Rosary is based on the Gospels and the purpose of the Rosary is to stay focused on Jesus Christ.
Peace
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