Why Would A Catholic Vote For A ProChoice Canidate?

[sodak]

Reflecting on Supreme Court appointments keeps me honest in my pro-Life voting!!!

 

[mapleoak]

The posts by many of y’all here has strengthened and firmed my resolve to keep voting pro life. I guess I’m fortunate that pro life is a conservative principal and mostly supported by those I align with on other issues.

The arguments by many determined pro life voters here, have been succulent and poignant.

Vern, Deacon, Dmelosi, Mary Bobo, and Estesbob, et al, y’all are in the good fight. For every guy that posts on this forum probably 100 they just read and lurk. From y’all’s posts, I bet many of them that once sat on the fence, or voted pro choice candidates, have changed their minds. We’ll never know the number lurkers that have been swayed to the side of the pro life vote, but I’m sure more then a few…

And it is amazing the number of times the same old arguments are brought up, refuted, brought up, refuted, and over and over again. One must never grow tired of fighting the good fight.

 

[dmelosi]

While it is easy to think a president that is pro-life will help pro-life issues, it is just not the case.

He is just the president. The other branches of government decide those issues. While it is nice to think that a president has so much control over the abortion issue, he/she just doesn’t. The president is not a dictator and this is not a monarchy.

It will have to come down to the country as a whole feeling the same way about abortion. Sure, voting for someone you feel shouldn’t hold the office is perfectly normal in a democracy, yet don’t think that just because that person is in office that any real change to overturn abortion will ever happen because the executive branch wants it so.

It is a big rock to overturn and probably will require the judicial, executive, and legislative branches to all be in unison. Though the executive branch is powerful in that it is just one person, it is just a part of the overall system of government we have.

http://www.socialstudieshelp.com/Images/ChksBalnces.gif

Vote for whole you feel should be in office. That is democracy. Putting other people down for who they choose to vote is not fair, as you should expect the same respect to be given to you.

You have ignored all of the other posts that state this and your own post that the president nominates supreme court judges, yet you say the president has no say in abortion. That makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[gloworm57]

Well, yes that was a silly statement, but all I can see when I visualize the right wing is Rush Limbaugh and Kenneth Haige. Judgmentalism and self-righteousness reach it’s ultimate peak with the opinions of fools like these two. I agree that abortion is a heinous sin and a horrific crime against humanity and I would not ever agree that it should be a woman’s choice, however, there are many more issues to be pondered as well as abortion. Don’t you think solving homelessness, poverty, affordable health care (so that women can receive the health care they need to deliver a healthy baby), and reaching impoverished youth in poor, overcrowded urban schools who feel there is no hope for tomorrow, don’t you think some of these issues are important as well? What about the dignity of the elderly who die behind the walls of nursing homes (shouldn’t something be done to help fund a long term care project so the elderly can die with dignity)? There are just SO many issues that need prayer and resolution in this country. Sorry I don’t agree with you but your my brother/sister in Christ and I love you.

 

[johnnykins]

Wow!

So if we have one candiate who would try to cut abortion by, say 10%, and another who would try to increase it by the same amount (through public funding), would you say it would be “rationalizing” to vote for the first candidate?

If we can’t find a perfect candidate or party, we should vote for the candidate or party who wants to make things worse?

Are you suggesting it’s Ok to vote for someone who advocates the murder of children under certain circumstances? Not much of an anti-abortion test you’re proposing. Guess you think it’s OK to murder children conceived by rape - sure why not, a few murders are OK

 

[johnnykins]

The number of abortions for rape and incest are so minsiscule it it specious to bring them into the discussion. In addtion is it absolute nonsense to say its OK to support a canidate who supports the slaughter of 1.2 million children a year becase his opponent supports the almost non existent rape and incest abortions.

Nice attempt to derail the thread however. Personally i am not going to go any further down that goat track with you.

If you’re willing to support those who advocate the murder of a few - that’s your business. Not terribly moral to advocate murder at all. And, one might point out its NOT within the Catholic moral ambit at all. However you want to rationalize it, you, too, are in the muck…

 

[gloworm57]

Johnnykins,

Adoption is a better choice than abortion. AND homes like St. Marys in Maryland are a Godsend. Proper funding, healthcare, couseling for the mother and for the adoptive parents should be a major focus of churches. Education is knowledge and prayer is wisdom. Stop making quick, thoughtless judgments against your brothers and sisters who happen to disagree with you.

 

[dmelosi]

Well, yes that was a silly statement, but all I can see when I visualize the right wing is Rush Limbaugh and Kenneth Haige. Judgmentalism and self-righteousness reach it’s ultimate peak with the opinions of fools like these two. I agree that abortion is a heinous sin and a horrific crime against humanity and I would not ever agree that it should be a woman’s choice, however, there are many more issues to be pondered as well as abortion. Don’t you think solving homelessness, poverty, affordable health care (so that women can receive the health care they need to deliver a healthy baby), and reaching impoverished youth in poor, overcrowded urban schools who feel there is no hope for tomorrow, don’t you think some of these issues are important as well? What about the dignity of the elderly who die behind the walls of nursing homes (shouldn’t something be done to help fund a long term care project so the elderly can die with dignity)? There are just SO many issues that need prayer and resolution in this country. Sorry I don’t agree with you but your my brother/sister in Christ and I love you.

1 issue at a time…as far as the elderly…I think that is up to each of us to help take care of our parents when the time comes. My mom took care of my grandfather.

There has to be a time when people take care of themselves and not rely on everything for the government to do. This is not socialism.

 

[dmelosi]

Are you suggesting it’s Ok to vote for someone who advocates the murder of children under certain circumstances? Not much of an anti-abortion test you’re proposing. Guess you think it’s OK to murder children conceived by rape - sure why not, a few murders are OK

If you read Vern’s threads you will see that he claims that it is our fault that we do not have more pro life candidates. Sure makes sense to me.

I challenge you to go back into any of Vern’s posts to see where he said it is ok to murder any child as you have tried to put words in what he has said.

The question is how do we get back to making people understand that abortion is taking a life.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Do Catholics really stand behind Evangelical Fundamentalists in light of this 1 issue and vote republican? I don’t believe in abortion, but even a president or court of law can’t stop a young woman from aborting her baby. She will utlimately find a way if her mind is set. Let God be the ultimate judge of these people, meanwhile those of us in ministry offering counseling and forgiveness to women who have already committed the act and who seek repentence. Should this really be a political issue???

Prayer and forgiveness

I don’t believe in rape, but even a president or court of law can’t stop a sex criminal from raping a woman.

I don’t believe in murder, but even a president or court of law can’t stop a killer from murdering his victim.

I don’t believe in bank robbery, but even a president or court of law can’t stop a robber from knocking over a bank.

 

[Ender]

Judgmentalism and self-righteousness reach it’s ultimate peak with the opinions of fools like these two.

Judgmentalism and self-righteousness …?

I agree that abortion is a heinous sin and a horrific crime against humanity and I would not ever agree that it should be a woman’s choice, however, there are many more issues to be pondered as well as abortion.

Yes, there are many more issues and for you and others with your political inclinations this presents a dilemma: you are forced to choose between politicians who you believe have better solutions to the other issues but also support abortion, and those who oppose abortion but are (in your opinion) wrong on the other issues. You need to answer the question before you: is it permissible to support a politician who is (for you) right on the other issues but supports heinous sin and horrific crimes against humanity?

Ender

 

[vern_humphrey]

Judgmentalism and self-righteousness …?

I suspect the poster is projecting.

Yes, there are many more issues and for you and others with your political inclinations this presents a dilemma: you are forced to choose between politicians who you believe have better solutions to the other issues but also support abortion, and those who oppose abortion but are (in your opinion) wrong on the other issues. You need to answer the question before you: is it permissible to support a politician who is (for you) right on the other issues but supports heinous sin and horrific crimes against humanity?

Ender

How many times do I have to ask this question: Given two candidates, one of whom espouses the pro-life position, albeit imperfectly, and the other who espouses the pro-choice position, can a Catholic morally vote for the latter?

 

[unixfudotnet]

You have ignored all of the other posts that state this and your own post that the president nominates supreme court judges, yet you say the president has no say in abortion. That makes no sense whatsoever.

A nomination is just a nomination. He doesn’t appoint the judges there. There is a huge difference, the difference being the congress can veto it.

It’s like saying a kid can watch anything he wants on tv because he can reach the remote… with his parents right beside him.

 

[zab]

I suspect the poster is projecting.

How many times do I have to ask this question: Given two candidates, one of whom espouses the pro-life position, albeit imperfectly, and the other who espouses the pro-choice position, can a Catholic morally vote for the latter?

Perhaps. But if there is a better choice with a third candidate that has emerged, I think it would be wise to choose on the side of life.

 

[dmelosi]

Perhaps. But if there is a better choice with a third candidate that has emerged, I think it would be wise to choose on the side of life.

I go back and forth on the same issue. But it comes down to the thought of wasting a vote and taking a pro life step back through potential nominations.

But there has to be a better way to make our voices heard.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I go back and forth on the same issue. But it comes down to the thought of wasting a vote and taking a pro life step back through potential nominations.

But there has to be a better way to make our voices heard.

There is. It starts with joining your local county committee, and recruiting and backing pro-life candidates, and blocking pro-choice candidates.

It is no accident that Rudi Guiliani, who had been coronated by the press as the obvious winner of the Republican primaries, got only a handful of delegates. There were a lot of people working hard to ensure the Republicans didn’t nominate a pro-choice candidate.

Perhaps if there had been more Catholics involved, we could have an even stronger, more pro-life candidate.

And while I’m making wishes, if Catholic Democrats had been working toward the same goal, he would face a pro-life Democrat in the General Election.

 

[Ender]

Perhaps. But if there is a better choice with a third candidate that has emerged, I think it would be wise to choose on the side of life.

This seems a little like asking if it is better to be employed at $5 an hour than unemployed at $10 an hour. The next president will be from one of the two major parties (the employed at $5/hr option); the third party candidate has no chance (the unemployed at $10/hr option). I guess I don’t see the wisdom of choosing the profitless option .

Ender

 

[vern_humphrey]

This seems a little like asking if it is better to be employed at $5 an hour than unemployed at $10 an hour. The next president will be from one of the two major parties (the employed at $5/hr option); the third party candidate has no chance (the unemployed at $10/hr option). I guess I don’t see the wisdom of choosing the profitless option .

Ender

The American system, with its separation of powers, militates against successful Third Parties.

As I have said again and again, it is no concidence that the only time a Third Party won, it killed the parent party from which it sprang, and the country was plunged into Civil War.

We must work from within the existing parties, to transform them, to promote pro-life candidates and deny nomination to pro-choice candidates. In both parties.

 

[zab]

I go back and forth on the same issue. But it comes down to the thought of wasting a vote and taking a pro life step back through potential nominations.

But there has to be a better way to make our voices heard.

I don’t think that one can automatically make that assumption without having heard from the candidates.

 

[zab]

The American system, with its separation of powers, militates against successful Third Parties.

As I have said again and again, it is no concidence that the only time a Third Party won, it killed the parent party from which it sprang, and the country was plunged into Civil War.

We must work from within the existing parties, to transform them, to promote pro-life candidates and deny nomination to pro-choice candidates. In both parties.

We have tried to work from within the party but the Republican Party has failed us.